Patriotism

slaveship hasn't died. it still goes on in varying degrees. we are sl;aves to the military-industrial complex.
ok, you (and i can intuit--aint hard-who amngst this group might deny this) may not feel this, but i and others do.
cocerced to do activity you may not want to do. Many people are completely desperate in this system, and the ones near the top are desperate to keep that, CAUSE of what can happen if they dont

kids HAVING to do school, and if shwoing any 'signa' of not conforming to the fascist princip[les of the meritocracy can be drugged.....!
you want to be patriotic for THIS shite?

The slaveholders are still in control
 
This makes me laugh. This post gets moved off the free thought section into ethics, and my post on Ayn Rand got moved out of philosophy into free thought. HA!

Anyways. Don't hold your country to things it did long ago, and has tried to rectify. Also, did your ancestors being slaves effect you in any way? Other than making you angry, how has it effected your life?

Racism, as basic as the concept gets, is that all people of a race are exactly the same, and interchangeable(so, you can kill one and the next will take your place easily. Or, if one person of a race goes out of control and kills someone, it is used as an excuse that the entire race has a chance of doing so). By this basis, you are considering yourself interchangeable with your ancestors, and, in a way(granted, an abstract way), racist(against yourself). The point-you are not your ancestors, and none of your race in your country(or America) is being held in slavery-there is no longer a problem.
 
A lot of people got me confused I never once in this thread said I hate white people for what they have done.

But a flag linked to many terrible things such as slavery should be detested just as the swastika is.

Just because US and the UK are powerful nations doesn't mean what they have done should be forgotten.
 
How about, you pick some flag from some other nation that hasn't either done the same thing or something else destestable.

How about you just go somewhere only you know about where there are no flags? In which, there were no other people other than those like yourselves, and no interaction towards the outside world, especially those countries who once sponsored something wrong.

Tell me, of the three options(staying under one of the US or UK flags, finding a flag without some bad happening in history and moving there, or moving somewhere only you know) you would rather choose.


Also, for all intensive purposes, a country can be considered a race. Racism, as simply and detached as it can get(more so than I said in the last post of mine), is the concept that another person, of similar ANYTHING(country, religion, sex, past, etc.)has the same traits as you do(or the opposite of that statement). If that doesn't fit the context of "race"ism, find some new word that has the same meaning, but doesn't includes more than race.
 
But a flag linked to many terrible things such as slavery should be detested just as the swastika is.
Click to expand...
Your ignorance amazes me. However you can be excused, because a lot of people amaze me this way.
 
Richard said:
A lot of people got me confused I never once in this thread said I hate white people for what they have done.

But a flag linked to many terrible things such as slavery should be detested just as the swastika is.

Just because US and the UK are powerful nations doesn't mean what they have done should be forgotten.
Click to expand...

I'd agree, you are confused. First off, you don't begin a sentence with the word but, unless that's another typo. Next off, there is no flag of slavery. This is a truly ignorant statement you. I'm not sure about the Briton's flags but the American ones have changed over time. The flag of today is not the one of one hundred fifty years ago nor one of the many flags used during the revolutionary war, in which there were thirteen different flags used by the rebels. People should forget what happened in those days no less than they should forget the holocaust, they shouldn't but the fact is slavery persists to this day in nearly every country in the world.
 
Richard said:
I'm british But I Dispise the British flag with a passion, I also harbour simmilar hatred for the american flag.

Reasons: I'm a 22 year old black male, and millions of my ancestors were murdered at the hands of both nations throughout slavery and still now. the biggest homicide in the history was at the hands of these nations.
More people were killed during slavery than the holocaust, tsunamis and worl wars combined.

Now I wouldn't expect jewish people to pledge aleigance to the swastika so why am I expected to pledge to the flag that did unspeakable things to my race?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to move to Africa. Every race feels most comfortable with its own, and blaming whites for slavery is like whites blaming blacks for their "7 times more likely to commit homicide" rate of violent crime.
 
duendy said:
slaveship hasn't died. it still goes on in varying degrees. we are sl;aves to the military-industrial complex.
ok, you (and i can intuit--aint hard-who amngst this group might deny this) may not feel this, but i and others do.
cocerced to do activity you may not want to do. Many people are completely desperate in this system, and the ones near the top are desperate to keep that, CAUSE of what can happen if they dont

kids HAVING to do school, and if shwoing any 'signa' of not conforming to the fascist princip[les of the meritocracy can be drugged.....!
you want to be patriotic for THIS shite?

The slaveholders are still in control
Click to expand...
Oh please.

You say we are slaves because we're coerced into doing things. Slavery is not an institution which coerces people into doing things, it's an institution which denies people any value other than the value of property. That's a whole 'nother ball game.

Kids have to go to school? If memory serves me plenty of kids are home schooled, or attend private schools where they're taught other things than the government's school program. And even in countries where they don't have that liberty, it doesn't mean they're slaves, it just means they live in a more authoritarian society.

Every community comes with obligations that you have to abide by. There are always rules, everywhere you are and everywhere you go. It doesn't mean we're "slaves to the military-industrial complex".
 
LeoDV said:
Oh please.

You say we are slaves because we're coerced into doing things.

d))obviously!

Slavery is not an institution which coerces people into doing things, it's an institution which denies people any value other than the value of property. That's a whole 'nother ball game.

d))look in the dictionary abou definition of 'slavery'. tell us what you find?

Kids have to go to school?

d))YES. they very much do. dont know wherer you from, but here the parents are threatened with jail if their kids play trunat too long. the 'poor' parent(s) that is. also kids here--more and more like as in the States--are being forcibly put on Ritalin etc to fit in school, their 'lack of committment' being 'diagnosed' as 'ADHD'.

If memory serves me plenty of kids are home schooled, or attend private schools where they're taught other things than the government's school program.

d))oh my GOD! how rich are YOU??

And even in countries where they don't have that liberty, it doesn't mean they're slaves, it just means they live in a more authoritarian society.

d))oh my God again. look at how you play with language. slaveholders are very skillful in that area. not that YU are one though.

Every community comes with obligations that you have to abide by. There are always rules, everywhere you are and everywhere you go. It doesn't mean we're "slaves to the military-industrial complex".
Click to expand...

obviously you dont feel this, which is evidenced by your defence of slavery. myself and others hold a different opinion.
 
Richard said:
A lot of people got me confused I never once in this thread said I hate white people for what they have done.

But a flag linked to many terrible things such as slavery should be detested just as the swastika is.

Just because US and the UK are powerful nations doesn't mean what they have done should be forgotten.
Click to expand...
Incidentally, no-one expects you to "pledge allegiance" to the union jack. Have you ever heard of "jelly-bellied flag-flappers"? Indeed, becoming a British citizen is a very down to earth process. I was a child when i became a British citizen, but the way it was done was a letter saying, more-or-less, "Dear Sir, as of the 6th inst you and your family will be British citizens. I remain etc..."
The union jack is not only associated with horrible things, whereas the swastika- as taken over by the nazis- was only associated with perhaps the vilest and most horrible bunch of people ever to infest the surface of the earth.
As far as i know no-one has ever suggested an act of oblivion on what the British and US [and French and Danish and Dutch and Arab and Dahomeyan and...] have done. Go to your local library and you will find quite afew books on slavery in general and the slave trade too. In the meantime, remember it is past. All of your feelings cannot change the past in anything. You and any descendants you have matter. We are all descended- at one time or another- from slaves and trade dealers. It doesn't make any difference.
 
Richard said:
But a flag linked to many terrible things such as slavery should be detested just as the swastika is.
Click to expand...

Balance, my good man! Shouldn't the flag ALSO be linked with all of the good that it's associated with over history, too? And in doing so, shouldn't you balance the good with the bad?

It's my guess that you're living in relative luxury compared to many people of the world ...and that came about due to living under that flag that you so despise. How can you accept the good, yet be so willing to despise what its given you and your family?

Balance, my good man ....balance.

Baron Max
 
I salute the Union Jack every time a see it.
I never salute the american flag.
If someone whines at me "why didnt you salute the american flag"
i just bloody ignore them. or kick them square in the crotch, depending on the gender.
but, eh.
AmerFlag to me means nothing good. What good shite has the US done? helped the british beat the nazis, and helped win WW1 & 2. not much; they only helped britain & france they never did shit by themselves...except japan. but that was fluke.
what good shite has the UK done? beat nappy B, held of the nazis, beat the kreigsmarine, beat the japanese in burma, civilized the african continent...the list goes on.
RULE BRITANNIA!
 
We also beat the British(with the help of the French). Then, we beat the British on our own(war of 1812). Then, we beat the Spanish in the Spanish American war. Before these, we bought the Louissiana Purchase and expanded, industrialized, and built from sea to shining sea(I hate that phrase, yet I use it anyways). During all this, we inspired nations across the world to beat down their dictators/unlimited governments, and establish new ones(some even kept their monarchies. However, the monarchs power was not absolute, and democracy was partly instituted. Some went back to the way they were, but that was very few). Need I continue? No, but I shall go on anyways

When we beat Britain(the first time), we established the closest thing to a perfect form of gov. that had ever been established. A government not built upon taking, but protecting rights(Life, Liberty, Property, things that can be derived from these). And, in order to take those, due process must be followed and it is not done without reason. Over the years, we have began to fall from this standard(we established social security, medicare, unemployment, eminent domain, those such things), but we remain close to what we were.


I do not care that the flag is not saluted, but I do care when people say we have done nothing.
 
ba-lah...ba-lah...and blah-ha...
yanky-wanky dribble...

obviously, im a little drunk right now!
 
The Britons never had their complete focus on the Americans in the War of 1812. They pulled when the Napoleonic wars came around.
 
I agree with Richard, through on a slight more radical scale.

Forgiveness should not come to those who choose to forget. Humanity will never improve untill those who have wronged learnt of their mistakes. The west has been built on the ground of inequality. They celebrate their own democracy and freedom while they enslave the rest. The lessen must be taught by giving them a tast of their own medicine.
 
android said:
Sounds like you need to move to Africa. Every race feels most comfortable with its own, and blaming whites for slavery is like whites blaming blacks for their "7 times more likely to commit homicide" rate of violent crime.
Click to expand...

I guess you'll be going back to Africa too...
since that's where it all started ;)
 
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