Parents abandoning their teenagers

Yeah, those whiny bastards think they got it made, just because they have a parent? Think again!

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/triage/2008/09/father-leaves-n.html

Father walks into hospital and leaves his 9 kids behind...

Since most parents seem to have the same values as their teen-age children, i.e. looking sexy, giving them condoms, birth control pills, acting on their sexual desires, drinking, etc. then what good does it do the teen-agers for their parents to stay home with them since they haven't grown past adolescence themselves?:eek:
 
Audio

A couple of links:

NPR. "Neb. Safe Haven Law Draws More Than Infants". All Things Considered. October 17, 2008. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95843541

NPR. "Nebraska To Tweak Safe-Haven Law". All Things Considered. October 20, 2008. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95913079

The first is kind of heartbreaking, as social worker Courtney Anderson discusses how the safe-haven law actually looks at Nebraska's Immanuel Hospital, which has received eight children under the law.

The second is just a brief update: the Nebraska legislature intends to reconsider the limits of the law, but not until their next session.

Q: I was reading some descriptions of these cases in the Omaha Herald and it did seem that a number of these children were deeply, deeply troubled; severe psychiatric problems, violence toward their caregiver. One man, an uncle who left his fifteen year-old nephew said, "I'm done beating my head against the wall". He's been trying to get help for the kid, trying a lot of different avenues, apparently, and none of them worked. This was a last resort.

Anderson: I know, and parents and guardians are very frustrated, and feel like they don't know where to turn, or this is the last resort for them. So part of our goal as social workers is to talk to them about options, and many of these families didn't know about a lot of the agencies that are available out there.


(NPR, "More Than Infants")
 
There is a new law passed by Nebraska cutting down on the age of the abandonable kids. They can not be older than 3 days. The state is fed up with people abandoning their teenagers....
 
Well, sooner is better than later

Syzygys said:

There is a new law passed by Nebraska cutting down on the age of the abandonable kids. They can not be older than 3 days. The state is fed up with people abandoning their teenagers.

Well, there we go, then.

Three days, though, is cutting it a little narrow, I think, in terms of what the law hopes to accomplish. To the other, though, 72 hours is a fairly common standard, with several states extending that to 30 days, and North Dakota making allowances up to one year. See the National Center for State Courts for more information. (Their table needs updating, as Virginia and Nebraska, the last two states to pass safe haven laws, are still listed as not having a law in place.)
____________________

Notes:

Vaidyanathan, Rajini. "US state curtails child dumping". BBC News Online. October 20, 2008. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7681139.stm

National Center for State Courts. "Analysis of State’s “Safe Haven” Legislation". NCSC.org. Viewed October 21, 2008. http://www.ncsconline.org/WC/Publications/KIS_AdoptSafeHaven.pdf
 
Safe haven limits not yet in place

Update: Nebraska safe haven limit not yet in place
Legislature to vote on limits next Friday


Various bills before the Nebraska legislature would place limits on the state's now infamous safe-haven law that has resulted in dozens of children being abandoned at local hospitals. One bill proposes 72 hours, another fifteen years. There must be some sort of middle ground. There are, of course, plenty of seventy-two hour statutes in other states, as well as fourteen and thirty-day limits. Five days, seven days? Ninety days in New Mexico. One year in North Dakota.

What, of course, is the purpose of these laws? That seems simple enough to answer: to prevent the abandonment of babies in dumpsters or public restrooms, to keep defenseless infants who cannot fend for themselves from disappearing through the cracks of society. But what does that really mean? Why is it important to do so?

Such a question might seem absurd at first glance, but if so, why should Nebraska change the law? Of thirty-four children left at hospitals under the safe-haven law, there were:

• six 17 year-olds
• two 16 year-olds
• six 15 year-olds
• three 14 year-olds
• three 13 year-olds
• eight aged 11 or 12 years


(BBC News)

In other words, of thirty-four children given over under the safe haven law, twenty-eight have been eleven years old or older.

This is the challenge facing lawmakers. This outcome—82% being older children—was not what they intended.

Fifteen years? At that point, aren't there other options and services available? A Nebraska social worker told National Public Radio that "many of these families didn't know about a lot of the agencies that are available". It seems almost an expedient, though: Is your teenager troublesome? Don't bother with counseling; that's too much effort! Just drop 'em off at the local hospital and say, "I don't want 'em anymore".

To the other, though, the three-day statutes seem perhaps a little demanding. While I cannot say it is true of every new mother, I can certainly say that my own daughter's mother was not in any condition to make such a decision if she was so inclined three days out. I can't speak for her state of mind at two weeks, but I can certainly say that by the time three months had passed, it was clear that the baby was a lesser priority.

No, I am not suggesting that ... oh, never mind.

Look, the point is that some of these parents will need more than three days to realize just how far over their heads the situation is. I don't think the three-day statutes are permissive enough.

But that comes back to the question of why it is important to have these laws in the first place.

Swarm suggests, "Maybe 3 years", and while I would encourage any parent who is so determined that they are unfit to care for their child to give over and step out of the way, I wonder if perhaps by three years, other options for the transition would suffice.

So while three days might be too restrictive, and thus limit the efficacy of what these laws intend, I can't personally figure where to draw the line. Let's go with ninety days, then, as a starting proposition. Is that too broad a window? Too narrow? What would be a better period?

Anyone? Anyone?
____________________

Notes:

"Nebraska discusses safe-haven law". BBC News Online. November 15, 2008. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7728942.stm

"Neb. Safe Haven Law Draws More Than Infants". All Things Considered. October 17, 2008. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95843541
 
Various bills before the Nebraska legislature would place limits on the state's now infamous safe-haven law that has resulted in dozens of children being abandoned at local hospitals.

Tiassa, you know that I don't like you, but let's put that aside for this moment, okay?

Like you, I've read and heard all about these "abandonment" laws and the bullshit going on about it. But is this one of those issues where we're hiding from the real problem by trying to cover it up with "legal, wordy bullshit" on some minor incidents?

The real issue, of course, is that there are tens of thousands of kids, all ages, that are simply abandoned on the streets of some of our major cities in the USA. Yet, no one seems to give a shit about them ...because they're "hidden", and the issue is "hidden", and no one wants to bring it up. But we make a big, big deal about a few kids in Nebraska who are, to say it like it is, turned over to the state. .....INSTEAD of dumping them onto the streets. And worse, we want the stupid, fuckin' government to pass some more fuckin' laws that people won't follow anyway!

So, ...which is better? Which is better for the kids? Which is better for the state? Which is better for the general public? Which is better for the parents who just can't, for whatever reason, keep their kids?

Baron Max

PS - Okay, now I can go back to disliking you! :D

PS2 - Please try to keep your response to less than 500,000 words, okay?
 
i agree with barron. would it be worse if these kids were just throw aways? (where the parents just leave the kid or kids home and just move) or runaways?

It doesnt mater what the age is, its a sad thing when ANY child has to be abandoned to the state but its a dam site better thant he ulternitive.

rather than a change in law maybe it would be better for a change in policy at CPS so that they had the power to help these families or parents BEFORE it came to this? Would it be so hard to maybe, get someone in to do a bit of cleaning around the house for them? or organise a facility that they could leave the child in (or a person who the child could be left with) so that the parents can get away and reboot for a little while ect.

Im sure CPS would much rather be doing THIS work than taking children away and im sure acute hospitals would rather not have these children dumped on there door so that they can deal with patients

I know what your all going to say, "what an evil SOCIALIST idea", even if it saves on tax payers money and benifts the child we cant do that because its SOCIALIST.

Maybe its time that evidence and not lables ran your public policy

We have a real problem here, doctors and teachers have been falsly reporting parents to DYFS for child abuse and neglect and there for getting them labled as such when they havent done anything at all. The doctors and teaches know this very well but its the only way they can get these families the help that they need. This most certainly isnt a good situation but it does demistrate the good that DYFS can actually do for a family. Its not all about taking kids away
 
... I know what your all going to say, "what an evil SOCIALIST idea", even if it saves on tax payers money and benifts the child we cant do that because its SOCIALIST.

People should help people, Asguard, ...NOT... the government!! If people cared enough, then they'd help. Since they don't help enough, then it's obvious that they don't care ....they want "someone else" to do it, and that usuallly means "government". People think that the government has tons of money and that it grows on trees or something!

It's not the governments' place to do charity work!
That's nothing more than stealing money from some people to GIVE to a select few. That just ain't nice, no matter how you slice it.

Maybe its time that evidence and not lables ran your public policy.

No, maybe what it's time for is for people to put their help and their money where their fuckin' loud mouth is! If people would help as much as they complain, then no one would be in such a mess as these families.

But see, people just want to complain, yet do nothing. Well, ain't it time we told them to put up or shut up?

Thanks, Asguard, but you see, you really didn't agree with me! :D

Baron Max
 
lets do a cost benift alayais of this.

Say a couple has 4 children aged 10, if they become wards of the state it costs what?how much a year to raise them to 18? then they will probably go straight back on to wealfare when the child care system chucks them out so thats more expence and its unlikly they will ever come off it so thats even more expence?
How much do you think this totals up to of TAX payers money???????

compared to say to the state providing a nanny for 2 days a week to look after the kids, clean up a bit, maybe do some washing, maybe even cook dinner for those two nights?

Lets say that nanny is paid $40 per hour (ridiculasly high), they might be there for say 10 hours twice a week so thats 20*40 = $800 for maybe a year 800* 52 = 41,600 some of which will come back in tax anyway compared to what?200,000? AT LEAST which they will not see $1 come back

Which is the more benifical to the goverment and the tax payer?

Your idea is SOOO logical:rolleyes:
 
lets do a cost benift alayais of this. ....(a bunch of useless calcs!).....

Which is the more benifical to the goverment and the tax payer?

It don't matter, Asguard, it just don't matter. It's the principle of stealing money from ONE group, to give to a select few. If you can't see that that's just plain wrong, regardless of the economic calcs, then you're just as fucked up as your idealistic communistic socialistic ideas!

Baron Max
 
How narrow a perspective

Baron Max said:

The real issue, of course, is that there are tens of thousands of kids, all ages, that are simply abandoned on the streets of some of our major cities in the USA. Yet, no one seems to give a shit about them ...because they're "hidden", and the issue is "hidden", and no one wants to bring it up.

There are many people who do care. In some debates, though, the consideration of the over 110,000 kids "in the system"—to speak nothing, as such, of those to whom you refer, who aren't recognized at all—gets pushed aside because it's about God's will, or a microscopic mass of cells, or sexual orientation, or whatever.

In this case, though, there is a specific issue pertaining to a certain law.

You note—

But we make a big, big deal about a few kids in Nebraska who are, to say it like it is, turned over to the state. .....INSTEAD of dumping them onto the streets.

—and there are a couple of points to be made in response. One of which is that you are correct. But what this issue suggests is not entirely independent of the kids on the street.

I quoted last month, and again today, a social worker who talked about how many of these families are unaware of the services and agencies available to them. Between dropping them off at the hospital and dumping them on the street is a middle road that is not being taken. And that is where people are shocked and outraged. Yes, it's better to drop the kids at a hospital than dump them on the street, but this is, in many cases, about the parent's convenience. Better than dumping them on the streets, and better than abandoning them at a local hospital, what about using the resources available to troubled families for reconciliation and cohesion?

On the one hand, not every one of these kids is so troubled beyond repair. To the other, if they are, what does that say about what's going on in this country? Still, though, what are we saying about "family values"—on any scale—that this is what it comes to? Once again we return to the proposition that parenthood is about the parents. This is problematic in many ways. After all, is it really the kids who are properly cared for and attended by their parents who are stealing your bike?

And worse, we want the stupid, fuckin' government to pass some more fuckin' laws that people won't follow anyway!

This point, more often than not when I encounter it, seems to be more about one person's disdain for government than anything else. After all, any law can be broken. Murder, rape, speed limits, jaywalking. Why bother making any laws?

And the question is not as much hyperbole as you might think. There are reasons for making laws, and whether a particular law is made according to those justifications is certainly a valid point. But if every time a law is brought into discussion, we must go all the way back to square zero in order to establish that human beings are social creatures that operate best in groups, that these groups tend to develop rules and customs for the benefit of both the individual and the collective, and that we have become philosophically advanced enough to recognize certain principles which seem very nearly immutable about how humans relate to one another, then we never will get around to considering the immediate point at hand.

We might look at one of your points to Asguard:

It's not the governments' place to do charity work!
That's nothing more than stealing money from some people to GIVE to a select few. That just ain't nice, no matter how you slice it.

Perhaps this point is functionally valid by your own perspective. (It is argumentatively valid in a broader context.) But this is the United States of America, Max, and the purpose of the government is established in the Constitution. Poverty relief can be said to pertain to the constitutional justifications of insuring domestic tranquility and promoting the general welfare, thereby establishing justice and securing the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity. The form of how the government involves itself in certain affairs is obviously subject to question, but our government is ordained with certain ends in mind, and if one can justify a notion accordingly, without contradicting any other part of the constitutional framework, the principle is valid.

Unfortunately, such standards do not make governance, justice, or society easy.

As an example: Many fiscal conservatives who resent social welfare simultaneously advocate institutional—e.g. corporate—welfare. The argument here is that the charity benefits the community by protecting jobs and helping maintain a consistent standard of living. Likewise, though, social welfare does have measurable effects on community stability and quality of life.

The underlying question, of course, is whether any particular law or program achieves progress toward those ends. But that argument often gets set aside that we might bicker ceaselessly about how guv'mint is evil.

In the end, people find certain issues important because they are significant of greater considerations than the circumstance at hand. By gross numbers, I agree that thirty-four juveniles is, compared to the larger ills facing society, a fairly insignificant statistic. But such situations also hint after a spiritual—or, if you prefer, psychological—malaise affecting the present and future of our society.

And that is what causes people to take an interest in the issue.
 
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