Parenting--Social & Natural?

[Kumar]

Hello all,

What should be the true parenting type? Whether natural parenting--parenting as in Nature without the effect of society/civility is better OR Social/Mixed parenting--what parents now practice living in society/civility & effected by it, is better? Accordingly, how can we differanciate between these two/three types(Natural, Mixed & Social) of parentings? Natural parenting may just suggest to take care to some younger level say--10/15 years or less i.e.till child stand on his own feet for survival.

Best wishes.

 

[MagiAwen]

I do not fully understand what you are asking.

Is this parenting in Nature mean like...going out in the boonies and not coming back until the kid is 15 and dump them into society? That doesn't sound very smart lol

Maybe you could explain a little more in depth of what these types are that you are asking about.

 

[Asguard]

Kumar we are social creatures

the way we develop our mind is through interaction with other minds
if you take that away you wouldnt have someone even as smart as a chimp. They would be totally unable to funtion

 

[whitewolf]

Someone mentioned to me (and I found it true) that, in modern societies, family ties keep growing weaker. As a result, there are more and more parenting problems, examples where parents don't know what to do when it comes to child rearing. Modern parents find less and less time to spend with their kids. This is strange, since the work day has grown shorter through history and vacation time has increased.
I have no clue what I'll do with a child if I ever have one. So far, my experiences with kids and parents have been absolutely negative; that's primarily because I never spent much time with parents or kids. Same is true for many people I know.

 

[Mephura]

Someone mentioned to me (and I found it true) that, in modern societies, family ties keep growing weaker. As a result, there are more and more parenting problems, examples where parents don't know what to do when it comes to child rearing. Modern parents find less and less time to spend with their kids. This is strange, since the work day has grown shorter through history and vacation time has increased.
I have no clue what I'll do with a child if I ever have one. So far, my experiences with kids and parents have been absolutely negative; that's primarily because I never spent much time with parents or kids. Same is true for many people I know.

This is true but I find its become easy to blame the weak bonds on the mass culture in which families are reared.
Lack of loyalty has much to do with this as anything- every child eventually develops a strong need to indentify, and there are many parents who in their free time spend it clumsy around their own children.
There are countless parents making 'free time' in their guilt- bad medium for loyalty.

So we can't necessarily say this neglect is due to "society" - a neglected child is the product of his parents, not his culture.

 

[Kumar]

Hello,

I just want to know:-

Naturally:- What should be the appx. age of children upto which parents should do their parenting & what type of parenting is resembles with nature?

Socially:- What should be the appx. age of children upto which parents should do their parenting & what type of parenting is resembles with society?

 

[MagiAwen]

ok I'll try to do this to the best of my ability.

Naturally:- What should be the appx. age of children upto which parents should do their parenting & what type of parenting is resembles with nature?

A parent's job is never done. Ever.
In my society, a child legally can do whatever they would like when they turn 18.
I choose to teach my child that they can do what they want within the limits of law and law only. This means society has no barring on her... she has no stimulus that tells her equivocally that I am incorrect and her infuences are correct.

You cannot compare human aging with natural evolution. Humans are not born with instincts. Humans need more matron and paternal influence than any other animals. There is no time when parents are not needed. Although they may be shunned...I see no reason that humans isolate themselves from their family.

Socially:- What should be the appx. age of children upto which parents should do their parenting & what type of parenting is resembles with society?

I think that I have answered this already..............but.............I will probably have more to say on all of this in a little while...........................

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

It logically follows that parents aren't as good now as they once were.
Why? Just watch how bad a parent can be and STILL manage to raise a child into adulthood. Thats why. Anything that is allowed to get worse, will. This is why cave fish are blind. They once could see, but when they began living in complete darkness their sense of sight was no longer tested for by natural selection, they became blind because they could.
Parenting skills are no longer tested for in the natural selection of humans. The worst parents imaginable will often have their children taken off them before they die. Are these children then disposed of? Or even desexed? No. They are kept alive by society at large and eventually breed.
Dr Phil may try to fight it, but he can't win.
There's no point in complaining about "bad parents" either, if you're for saving children from their parents you are responsible for the production of bad parents. If people needed their parenting skills to be immaculate in order to continue their genetic legacy, we'd see an increase in good parents and a massive decline in bad parents, obviously.
Bad parents would still pop up, but it wouldn't be a nurtured and favoured behavioural trait so the species as a whole wouldn't degrade into being bad parents. Bad parent streaks would last as long as that person could struggle to keep a child alive and then they would be over. Now its a constant steady stream from generation to generation and spreading outwardly, set to gradually encompass all of humanity. Just as blindness did to the cave fish.

 

[Mephura]

It logically follows that parents aren't as good now as they once were.
Why? Just watch how bad a parent can be and STILL manage to raise a child into adulthood. Thats why. Anything that is allowed to get worse, will. This is why cave fish are blind. They once could see, but when they began living in complete darkness their sense of sight was no longer tested for by natural selection, they became blind because they could.
Parenting skills are no longer tested for in the natural selection of humans. The worst parents imaginable will often have their children taken off them before they die. Are these children then disposed of? Or even desexed? No. They are kept alive by society at large and eventually breed.
Dr Phil may try to fight it, but he can't win.
There's no point in complaining about "bad parents" either, if you're for saving children from their parents you are responsible for the production of bad parents. If people needed their parenting skills to be immaculate in order to continue their genetic legacy, we'd see an increase in good parents and a massive decline in bad parents, obviously.
Bad parents would still pop up, but it wouldn't be a nurtured and favoured behavioural trait so the species as a whole wouldn't degrade into being bad parents. Bad parent streaks would last as long as that person could struggle to keep a child alive and then they would be over. Now its a constant steady stream from generation to generation and spreading outwardly, set to gradually encompass all of humanity. Just as blindness did to the cave fish.

Why don't you shut the fuck up with your animal bullshit?
You sound like a Muslim.

"I'm constipated ...because of Allah.
Can't get a job, I'm broke, my wife hates me....becuase of Allah.
The postman is late today...because of Allah"

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

It's so embarrassing when some fuckbag nobody makes an obvious conscious decision to "not be mr nice guy anymore" and goes on a big, ineffectual rampage.
If anyone actually paid attention to you you'd have good cause to be painfully ashamed right now "mephura" (whoever the fuck that is). Lucky for you they don't huh?
Next lame effort you make to climb out of the gutter, can you refrain from clawing at my feet?

 

[Kumar]

Hello,

I have seen in animals & birds--may be most other species, parents leaves their children after a certain growth--to survive independantly & freely. It may be in accordance with the nature. Why humans differ in this respect? Is it for social cause or natural cause?

 

[Mephura]

Dr. Lou:

It's so embarrassing when some fuckbag nobody makes an obvious conscious decision to "not be mr nice guy anymore" and goes on a big, ineffectual rampage.

Ain't it?

LOL.
What's even more embarrassing is some fuckhole somebody whose only talent is making comparisons between humans and the animal kingdom and coming up with clever combinations for 'fuck'.
Fuckhole.
Fuckbag. Fuckthis,that,and other.

You can now call my anger a tasmanian devil or a Wallaby.

If anyone actually paid attention to you you'd have good cause to be painfully ashamed right now "mephura" (whoever the fuck that is). Lucky for you they don't huh?

No, funny for me you don't.

 

[Bells]

Parenting skills are no longer tested for in the natural selection of humans. The worst parents imaginable will often have their children taken off them before they die. Are these children then disposed of? Or even desexed? No. They are kept alive by society at large and eventually breed.

Eh? So you're advocating that society sterilises children because their parents were bad? How in the world can parental skills be carried through in a child's genes? It's not genetic Lou, a parent's skill stems from their society. Your argument would have it that a child who's 6 months old for example, is taken from their parents because they were bad parents, should be sterilised in case that child then grows up to be a bad parent? People brought up by good parents can turn out to be bad parents themselves. And many people who had bad parents turn out to be brilliant parents because they want to ensure that their children did not go what they went through. So how would you explain that?

There's no point in complaining about "bad parents" either, if you're for saving children from their parents you are responsible for the production of bad parents. If people needed their parenting skills to be immaculate in order to continue their genetic legacy, we'd see an increase in good parents and a massive decline in bad parents, obviously.

This doesn't even make sense Lou. How can saving a child from bad parents make that child become a bad parent? Where's your proof that parenting skills is one based on genetics? And your saying that the threat of sterilisation would prevent parents from being bad? Lou, the threat of jail hasn't stopped parents from being bad, neither has the threat of the death penalty in some states of the US for murdering one's child. Bad parents wouldn't give a shit if they were threatened with sterilisation Lou. Some would probably consider it a blessing so that they wouldn't have to have any more children because they never wanted them in the first place.

Bad parents would still pop up, but it wouldn't be a nurtured and favoured behavioural trait so the species as a whole wouldn't degrade into being bad parents. Bad parent streaks would last as long as that person could struggle to keep a child alive and then they would be over. Now its a constant steady stream from generation to generation and spreading outwardly, set to gradually encompass all of humanity. Just as blindness did to the cave fish.

Ermmm Lou, bad parents aren't nurtured and favoured in society anyway. As I said to you above. Many children brought up by bad parents end up becoming terrific parents because of their own experiences and their not wanting their children to go what they have gone through.

 

[Kumar]

Natural & Social forces/intiations may insist parents & children to behave accordingly & differantly. Initiation/attraction towards females leading to sex by force--may be natural but not social. On opposite side, suppression of sex inspite Initiation/attraction may be in accordance with society but not with Nature. Alike, to decide about good & bad parenting, we may have to first decide that what is really good or bad--nature or social.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Hello,

I have seen in animals & birds--may be most other species, parents leaves their children after a certain growth--to survive independantly & freely. It may be in accordance with the nature. Why humans differ in this respect? Is it for social cause or natural cause?

Most animals, besides humans, live by instincts alone, no real forthought about what tomorow or even the next minute will bring. Humans are more complex and use both instinct and reasoning to live together. Animals will also kill each other in order to have something to do whereas humans try to help, most of the time, each other in order to bring about order for everyone that goes along with the idea.

 

[laughing weasel]

I believe that society should provide mandatory childcare unless you are able to prove that you are a fit parent. In addition, all Day care requires a minimum standard this standard should be continually raised. Professionals and not amateurs should raise children. This is not a practical goal but at least there needs to be some kind of objective weeding out of the worst parents should have less time to damage the next generation. If we did this consistently then there would be a lot less problems.

 

[Kumar]

Most of these may be socially effected/initiated.

 

[Kumar]

Do the parents as well as children overburden themselves naturally, by social type of modern parenting?

 

[one_raven]

Anything that is allowed to get worse, will. This is why cave fish are blind. They once could see, but when they began living in complete darkness their sense of sight was no longer tested for by natural selection, they became blind because they could.

You certainly have a valid point there, but this is a social evolution, not a genetic one. This social problem needs to be addressed as such.

Parenting skills are no longer tested for in the natural selection of humans. The worst parents imaginable will often have their children taken off them before they die. Are these children then disposed of? Or even desexed? No. They are kept alive by society at large and eventually breed.

I don't think they ever will.
The best way, in my opinion, to study man's instinct and "natural" social interaction is to study chimpanzees.
What happens with the child of a bad/neglectful parent in a chimp community? It gets raised by another chimp.

There's no point in complaining about "bad parents" either, if you're for saving children from their parents you are responsible for the production of bad parents. If people needed their parenting skills to be immaculate in order to continue their genetic legacy, we'd see an increase in good parents and a massive decline in bad parents, obviously.

Bad parents would still pop up, but it wouldn't be a nurtured and favoured behavioural trait so the species as a whole wouldn't degrade into being bad parents. Bad parent streaks would last as long as that person could struggle to keep a child alive and then they would be over. Now its a constant steady stream from generation to generation and spreading outwardly, set to gradually encompass all of humanity. Just as blindness did to the cave fish.

Again, a valid, but, in my opinion, misguided viewpoint.
Bad parenting going unpunished and accepted is a societal ill and should be addressed as such.
If it goes unpunished and accepted it will simply get worse over time because the children of people with bad or non-existant parenting skills will have no one to learn from.
As in most other things, education is a key, though not the only one, in this situation.
We need to be more agressive socially and disregard whining about taking children away from their "birth parents", seriously overhaul the adoption system, and start intervening more proactively.
But that is obviously just a beginning.

Of course, this is all well and good in theory, but making it effective and keeping it out of politicians greasy hands is another thing altogether.

There is probably no way to effectively put such a plan in effect outside a totalitarian or deeply republican regime of some sort.

 

[whitewolf]

So we can't necessarily say this neglect is due to "society" - a neglected child is the product of his parents, not his culture.

Yes, but you don't see how this thing works! My mom was neglected. I was neglected; to a smaller degree, of course. I know other, happier people were raised differently becuause their relationship with parents is different from mine. But I only started "learning" that in my adult life. So.... How am I to raise my kid? Books are there, but they all say different things. Love, yes, but you can't make all decisions based on love alone. I know what not to do. What to do?

It logically follows that parents aren't as good now as they once were.

Not true! Before Freud, people thought that childhood is just this stage of life people need to get over, and that kids have to act as adults. I say we evolved to the better, since we are bringing the issue to such careful attention. Before, we had nannies and child labor.

I have seen in animals & birds--may be most other species, parents leaves their children after a certain growth--to survive independantly & freely. It may be in accordance with the nature. Why humans differ in this respect?

Humans leave their kids to live on their own, too. However, this happens later and later in life, as time goes on. If you notice, humans live much longer than most animals and our life keeps getting longer with availability of treatment for various illnesses. It is natural to let the kid go eventually. When, that's the question that is influenced by society and common sense, as well as individual situations.

Do the parents as well as children overburden themselves naturally, by social type of modern parenting?

Hehe, yes. It begins evident when society dictates that you can't hit your children if you want to punish them. However, back when children were beaten they still grew into good, valuable adults. I think that since society has such a great influence on humans since an early age, parenting has lesser and lesser effect on the final outcome of personality.