Parental responsibility and accountability in sexual abuse cases..

[Tiassa]

I don't know about any of you, but there would be no way in hell I'd allow anyone I suspected of molesting my child of continuing to sleep in the child's bed. Am I unreasonable in this?

Isn't it sad you need to ask the question? I wouldn't even want that person around, much less sleeping in my daughter's bed. Allowing a suspicion of molestation to go without investigation is bad enough. Allowing the suspected molester access to the child is even worse. Allowing the suspected molester to be alone with the child for extended periods is complicity.

 

[Baron Max]

I wouldn't even want that person around, much less sleeping in my daughter's bed. Allowing a suspicion of molestation to go without investigation is bad enough. Allowing the suspected molester access to the child is even worse. Allowing the suspected molester to be alone with the child for extended periods is complicity.

So just suspecting someone is now the same thing as convicted?? Guilty until proven innocent? Hang 'em, then check out their story? Shoot 'em, then let god sort it out later?

Good attitude to have, Tiassa. And you accuse me of living in fear just because I like to carry some insurance with me?

Baron Max

 

[Bells]

So just suspecting someone is now the same thing as convicted?? Guilty until proven innocent? Hang 'em, then check out their story? Shoot 'em, then let god sort it out later?

Good attitude to have, Tiassa. And you accuse me of living in fear just because I like to carry some insurance with me?

Baron Max

Baron, think about it.

You as a parent suspect something is going on. Do you still keep inviting the person into your home to stay over in your child's room? What about after you've walked in on them lying on top of each other in the child's bed, you'd keep inviting the person over? What the..??

It's not a matter of convicting them, but just being wary and careful. In the first place, what teacher goes for sleep overs at their student's houses on a weekly basis and sleeps in the kid's bed? That alone would be enough to raise eyebrows. But even when they suspected they allowed the teacher to stay over and go on family holidays with them where the teacher was sleeping in the same bed as their child. It still makes me squint in astonishment.

 

[Tiassa]

So just suspecting someone is now the same thing as convicted?? Guilty until proven innocent? Hang 'em, then check out their story? Shoot 'em, then let god sort it out later?

The suspicion calls for immediate investigation. And, what ... shoot 'em? Me?

 

[Baron Max]

You as a parent suspect something is going on.

They asked the daughter and she said nothing was going on ....so should a parent not believe their own daughter? Should a parent always assume that the daughter will lie? Should the parents "convict" the daughter's friend on suspicion alone? ...even when the daughter proclaims the innocence?

What about after you've walked in on them lying on top of each other in the child's bed, you'd keep inviting the person over?

At that point, I think they should have confronted the person and asked/demanded an explanation. And, yes, I think they should have stopped the visitation rights and called the police.

It's not a matter of convicting them, but just being wary and careful.

Yeah, kinda' like when walking down the street at night, and seeing a couple of black men walking toward you, you instantly become wary and careful .....and damned glad that you have your gun with you? Sorta' like that??

Kinda' like know the pervasiveness of crime in your city, you take the added precaution of carrying a gun in order to protect yourself in case of possible confrontation or attack? Sorta' like that?

But even when they suspected they allowed the teacher to stay over and go on family holidays with them where the teacher was sleeping in the same bed as their child. It still makes me squint in astonishment.

For an attorney, you don't seem to know humans very well, Bells. If mild little things like that worry you, some of the things I've seen humans do would make you puke your guts out ...and probably never be able to look at another human again without puking some more!

Perspective, Bells, is a nice thing to use in situations involving humans. And I might add, a damned healthy dose of caution and precaution ...because humans can and will do some of the most horrendous acts that one can even conceive in your wildest imaginations.

And for all that, the teacher sleeping in the girl's bed seems so mild and innocent that it makes me wonder what all the fuss it about. I mean, look at it this way, many of y'all here are constantly saying that we should all love and respect other humans ....yet here, where there seems to be lots of love and respect between the teacher and the kid, we're condemning it.

As horrified as many of y'all are at this situation, how would y'all be if the teacher had murdered the girl and cut her body into little pieces??? Perspective?

All humans should love each other?? Hmm? Make love, not war? Hmm?

Baron Max

 

[Bells]

They asked the daughter and she said nothing was going on ....so should a parent not believe their own daughter? Should a parent always assume that the daughter will lie? Should the parents "convict" the daughter's friend on suspicion alone? ...even when the daughter proclaims the innocence?

You do know that most children who are being sexually abused lie when first questioned about it, don't you? Especially in an instance where the person is well known to the victim and trusted by the family enough to allow them to stay over (as an example).

No one said they should have convicted the teacher from when they first suspected, but caution by any normal individual would have been applied. For example, what teacher stays the night over in the child's bed?

At that point, I think they should have confronted the person and asked/demanded an explanation. And, yes, I think they should have stopped the visitation rights and called the police.

Remember this was one of the things that made them suspect something was going on. From the first instance of walking in on the teacher and their daughter in such a position, the police should have been called, or at the very least, stop allowing the teacher to stay over in their 13 year old's bed before investigating further.

Yeah, kinda' like when walking down the street at night, and seeing a couple of black men walking toward you, you instantly become wary and careful .....and damned glad that you have your gun with you? Sorta' like that??

Kinda' like know the pervasiveness of crime in your city, you take the added precaution of carrying a gun in order to protect yourself in case of possible confrontation or attack? Sorta' like that?

No, "kinda" like when I see any group of people walking towards me on a dark street at night I'd be wary. Colour doesn't come into it. And no Baron, I don't carry a gun, nor am I ever likely to. But good try at seeing if I'd agree with you on this little issue.

For an attorney, you don't seem to know humans very well, Bells. If mild little things like that worry you, some of the things I've seen humans do would make you puke your guts out ...and probably never be able to look at another human again without puking some more!

Again your obsession with my profession.

Is this a 'little' thing though? Do you think it's a 'little' thing to the child involved? And don't worry Baron, some of what I've seen and heard would make you puke all over your own gun and cry like a baby.

Perspective, Bells, is a nice thing to use in situations involving humans. And I might add, a damned healthy dose of caution and precaution ...because humans can and will do some of the most horrendous acts that one can even conceive in your wildest imaginations.

*Gasp!!!*

No.. really?

And for all that, the teacher sleeping in the girl's bed seems so mild and innocent that it makes me wonder what all the fuss it about. I mean, look at it this way, many of y'all here are constantly saying that we should all love and respect other humans ....yet here, where there seems to be lots of love and respect between the teacher and the kid, we're condemning it.

Why is it always you who defends the actions of the paedophile? You did the same with the Congressman and you're still doing it. And now you're saying the paedophile shows 'love and respect' to its victim by sexually abusing it.

You think sexual abuse of a child is 'mild and innocent'? You think sexually abusing a child constitutes showing 'love and respect' to that child by the abuser? You do know that's the excuse given by many paedophiles don't you? But then, you probably do know that.

 

[leopold]

she was 13. she was capable of making her own decisions.

a 6 year old can make their own decisions too.

 

[S.A.M.]

a 6 year old can make their own decisions too.

What does that mean?

 

[Syzygys]

They asked the daughter and she said nothing was going on ....so should a parent not believe their own daughter?

Yeah, the teacher was giving her extra lessons 3 am in her bedroom. Completely normal thing.
The story doesn't go into depth, but probably there were other dead giveaways, like the girl's increased condom usage?

 

[Baron Max]

You do know that most children who are being sexually abused lie when first questioned about it, don't you?

Ahh, one more good reason for parents never to trust their kids when they tell them things! Just assume that the kids are lying, never believe a fuckin' thing they say and be done with it.

For example, what teacher stays the night over in the child's bed?

Well, that one did. And surely you're not trying to tell us that we should all act the same way as all others?? ...that ye're against expressions of individuality? ...that if it ain't ever been done before, then no one should ever do it?

Why is it always you who defends the actions of the paedophile?

Well, someone has to, don't they? In Aussieland, don't they have attorneys who are required to represent the accused pedo's? Does that mean that those attorneys are also pedo's?

And interestingly, if I said that all pedo's should be taken out behind the courthouse and shot, you'd be the very first to defend them against me. Yet here, ....?

You think sexual abuse of a child is 'mild and innocent'? You think sexually abusing a child constitutes showing 'love and respect' to that child by the abuser?

The really interesting part of that entire spiel is ....."abuse". A 17.99 year old girl is fucked, then she abused ...but a 18.01 year old girl is just fucked.

What is "abuse", Bells? What does that mean exactly? And please don't go into a long, wordy, drawn-out, legal definition. What I mean is ...how do you know that the girl didn't really, really enjoy it with the teacher and didn't want it to stop? Why would we call that "abuse" instead of love and tenderness and affection? The exact same action with an 18-yr old would have been called that, right?

And now that the parents and the courts have stopped it, the girl is now .....abused by her parents and the state???? Hmmmmm. The two lovers have been forced apart ...sorta' like Romeo and that bitch that he loved??

Little girls in India and Pakistan and other nations are married and have children at 13 ....what's the big deal? See? Is it ONLY our own ideas of right n' wrong? And should we be so damned sure of ourselves about it?


Okay, now that the defense is rested ......I think they should take that woman out behind the fuckin' courthouse and shoot her cunt off, then shoot her in her dirty, stinkin', black heart!!!! (But you won't want that either, will you? You'll want her put in prison and "taught" right from wrong, right?)

Sorry, Bells, I don't think things are always so easy to figure out. And I also think that's part of the reason that the world is in the state it's in today.

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

What does that mean?

Basically it means that no parent should trust their daughters or believe anything that they say until twenty-seven seconds after they turn 18!

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

Basically it means that no parent should trust their daughters or believe anything that they say until twenty-seven seconds after they turn 18!

Baron Max

Do you have children Baron?

 

[Baron Max]

Do you have children Baron?

What does that have to do with anything?

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

What does that have to do with anything?

Baron Max

You sound like my mom used to when we aggravated her.

 

[Baron Max]

You sound like my mom used to when we aggravated her.

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but I take that as a compliment.

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but I take that as a compliment.

Baron Max

Anything I say about my mom will always be a compliment. She was the most wonderful human being I have known and my best friend.

 

[Bells]

Ahh, one more good reason for parents never to trust their kids when they tell them things! Just assume that the kids are lying, never believe a fuckin' thing they say and be done with it.

Yeah pretty much. For example, child comes home smelling of alcohol, you ask child 'have you been drinking?'.. child says 'no of course not'. You'd believe child even if you can smell the alcohol on their breath? Lets apply the same to this case. Teacher starts coming for sleep overs in child's bed, you begin to suspect something is going on, walk in on them in bed together lying on top of each other several times, you ask child "is something going on?", child says "no of course not". You'd say 'oh ok well teacher can come back and sleep in your bed again, no problems'? Ya right.

Well, that one did. And surely you're not trying to tell us that we should all act the same way as all others?? ...that ye're against expressions of individuality? ...that if it ain't ever been done before, then no one should ever do it?

I don't know about you and where you're from Baron, but no, teachers don't usually come for sleep overs in their student's beds. Strange as it may seem to you, but it's not a done thing. My mother was a school teacher and I do not remember her ever going for sleep overs at any of her student's homes, let alone their beds. Weird huh? I guess you might see it as showing "love and respect" when a teacher sexually abuses their students, but other people view it for what it is, paedophilia, something you seem to keep excusing for some strange reason.

Well, someone has to, don't they? In Aussieland, don't they have attorneys who are required to represent the accused pedo's? Does that mean that those attorneys are also pedo's?

And interestingly, if I said that all pedo's should be taken out behind the courthouse and shot, you'd be the very first to defend them against me. Yet here, ....?

Would I? I tell you now if it were my child I'd do it myself and that for me is a scary thought.

But the question here is should the parents also be held accountable for what happened to their daughter with all the evidence they have provided against the school teacher in court which shows how even when they suspected and the evidence against them, they continued to allow the teacher to gain access to not only their home, but their daughters bed?

The really interesting part of that entire spiel is ....."abuse". A 17.99 year old girl is fucked, then she abused ...but a 18.01 year old girl is just fucked.

This girl was 13 when it started.

What is "abuse", Bells? What does that mean exactly? And please don't go into a long, wordy, drawn-out, legal definition. What I mean is ...how do you know that the girl didn't really, really enjoy it with the teacher and didn't want it to stop? Why would we call that "abuse" instead of love and tenderness and affection? The exact same action with an 18-yr old would have been called that, right?

You're kidding me right? You equate an adult having sex with a child (of 13) to be 'love and tenderness and affection'? I am not going to bother going into any legal definition but basically a definition of common sense (of sorts). What in the hell kind of person calls paedophilia an act of 'love and tenderness and affection'? What are you saying Baron, if a paedophile has sex with a child and the child has an orgasm or enjoys it it's fine?.. (which many children do because they are convinced into thinking that they are loved and it feels good as well as thinking they are getting extra attention.. that's the mind game that paedophiles play with their victims you god damn git.. they convince the child it's meant to feel good and children being children believe the adult they deem to be in authority) .. And you think that's all fine?

And now that the parents and the courts have stopped it, the girl is now .....abused by her parents and the state???? Hmmmmm. The two lovers have been forced apart ...sorta' like Romeo and that bitch that he loved??

There's no end to you is there?

Read the opening thread again and attempt to comprehend what was being asked. I'll make it easy for you and repeat it. Should the parents, after the evidence they have presented to the court, of what they saw the teacher doing to their daughter even after they suspected the teacher was abusing their daughter (and they continued to allow the teacher into their home and their daughters bed, even taking her on holidays with them), be charged for failing to protect their daughter?

Little girls in India and Pakistan and other nations are married and have children at 13 ....what's the big deal? See? Is it ONLY our own ideas of right n' wrong? And should we be so damned sure of ourselves about it?

And? The laws in Australia view the actions of the teacher as being illegal. Should the parents, in their continuing to allow the teacher access to their daughter in their own home even after all they had witnessed and suspected and have given as evidence against the teacher to have her convicted of sex abuse with a minor, be charged.

Oh and Baron, I think any child being forced to marry at 13 years of age is wrong.. You might see little girls being forced into marriage as being 'no big deal', but I disagree.

 

[Baron Max]

But the question here is should the parents also be held accountable for what happened to their daughter with all the evidence they have provided against the school teacher...

Now you're asking a strictly legal question ....and my answer has to be ...it depends on the laws and the interpretation of those laws. And as far as I'm concerned, it should be answered in a court of law.

Oh and Baron, I think any child being forced to marry at 13 years of age is wrong.. You might see little girls being forced into marriage as being 'no big deal', but I disagree.

Well, in many areas of the world, it happens daily. Perhaps you'd have us invade those backward nations and force them to agree with you?? Or do we just ignore it? ...as though it's "no big deal"?

***

All the rest of your post was just more of the same ranting bullshit that you've posted before.

I do keep wondering, however, when does "sexual abuse" magically change into "love and affection"? Is it, like, ten seconds after they reach legal age? Just ...POOF... sexual abuse is instantly transformed into love and affection? How does that work???

Baron Max