Paradox of Child Abuse
- Thread starter prozak
- Start date
And in the end, who the fuck cares?
We're so afraid to call anything "evil" because it reeks of value judgement, and seems so arbitrary, but we forget that "sick" is just as much an irrational and arbitrary value judgement.
Once the insane were thought to be touched by the Gods. Now we give them Thorazine. Same difference, really.
Sick or simply perverted, it's all the same and shouldn't affect the way child molesters are treated.
Depends, Chag.
How old were you?
I think that the question of pleasure is a bit tricky - it's obvious that an eight year old would not feel pleasure from intercourse - but it's not all that clearcut.
Obviously, if we justify this by saying that the kid enjoyed it (which does happen), we'd also have to justify rape.
There's something more than pleasure at issue here.
Consent.
Oh, and was she hot?
How old were you?
I think that the question of pleasure is a bit tricky - it's obvious that an eight year old would not feel pleasure from intercourse - but it's not all that clearcut.
Obviously, if we justify this by saying that the kid enjoyed it (which does happen), we'd also have to justify rape.
There's something more than pleasure at issue here.
Consent.
Oh, and was she hot?
For the purpose of discussion, let's say 'I' was four,
the babysitter was fourteen and 'she' was eleven.
And, Xev, don't read more into what I posted than
what I wrote. Intercourse was not an aspect in
either situation as stated, yet both would be con-
sidered child 'molestation' or 'abuse'.
the babysitter was fourteen and 'she' was eleven.
And, Xev, don't read more into what I posted than
what I wrote. Intercourse was not an aspect in
either situation as stated, yet both would be con-
sidered child 'molestation' or 'abuse'.
Yes personal, don't want to get in to detail, so lets leave it general... Society tells everyone sexual abuse is wrong, girls are led to believe they are sluts if the put out too early, or enjoy it too much, etc... They feel guilty for liking something they know they shouldn't... When they grow and realize they were taken advantage of while they were naive and young, the feel trusting someone is invitation to manipulation... Though, for the amount of time the sexual abuser is around, there may be no evident mental damage, if that sexual abuser were to come back when this 11 year old is 19, the evidence may be a bit more aparant, though it would probably be nothing direct. But chances are you'd find a very disturbed girl... And though the direct reason she may not even know, it would probably be a result of the breach of trust.
Chagur:
Always pushing the envelope, m'boy? Let's see where this leads.
Let's suppose that the child thoroughly (sp?) enjoys the act.
However, is a child capable of giving consent? Hell, when I was four I was just learning that sticking M&Ms up my nose was a bad idea. Consent to sexual activity? Don't think so.
Even if a child enjoys the "molestation", so what? I'm sure there are women who enjoyed being raped, at least a little.
What I'm saying is that it's almost more a matter of consent than of pleasure.
I'd also note that from everything I know, that sort of thing can seriously fuck a person up for a long time. However, that could be concievably changed by changing social mores. I don't want to commit to this argument.
notme2000:
And if all that is simple social brainwashing, who is to blame?
Society.
Always pushing the envelope, m'boy? Let's see where this leads.
Let's suppose that the child thoroughly (sp?) enjoys the act.
However, is a child capable of giving consent? Hell, when I was four I was just learning that sticking M&Ms up my nose was a bad idea. Consent to sexual activity? Don't think so.
Even if a child enjoys the "molestation", so what? I'm sure there are women who enjoyed being raped, at least a little.
What I'm saying is that it's almost more a matter of consent than of pleasure.
I'd also note that from everything I know, that sort of thing can seriously fuck a person up for a long time. However, that could be concievably changed by changing social mores. I don't want to commit to this argument.
notme2000:
And if all that is simple social brainwashing, who is to blame?
Society.
Dear Xev: Moi?
Not particularly precocious, were you?
What has 'consent' to do with a normal physiological response?
Pseudo-rape has long been used to expiate guilt, as well we both know.
I'd say social mores play a very important part. How less traumatic would
the experience be if Mom were to react with "Did you thank Grandpa Felix
for pleasuring you" instead of going over the edge and calling 911?
Not particularly precocious, were you?
What has 'consent' to do with a normal physiological response?
Pseudo-rape has long been used to expiate guilt, as well we both know.
I'd say social mores play a very important part. How less traumatic would
the experience be if Mom were to react with "Did you thank Grandpa Felix
for pleasuring you" instead of going over the edge and calling 911?
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I agree that if society were to make it acceptable things would be alot different. I wonder why society made it unacceptable to begin with... I'm sure there must have been a reason...
I agree, there must be a small percentage that truly enjoy it, but risking it isn't worth the larger percentage who's lives are ruined. And btw, there was no intercourse in my case, thank god, and I still went through everything I listed. At a young age, they don't know the implications of what they're giving concent to. All in all, what I'm saying is: In the rare cases where the victim isn't really a victim, completely enjoys is, and never had a regret or goes through trauma, then technically there's no big problem... But the risk the molestor is taking with the other person's life is wrong. No one has the right to risk someone else's mental wellbeing for their dick... I think that's what it comes down to. The reason it's wrong is because it is the epitome of selfishness...
I agree, there must be a small percentage that truly enjoy it, but risking it isn't worth the larger percentage who's lives are ruined. And btw, there was no intercourse in my case, thank god, and I still went through everything I listed. At a young age, they don't know the implications of what they're giving concent to. All in all, what I'm saying is: In the rare cases where the victim isn't really a victim, completely enjoys is, and never had a regret or goes through trauma, then technically there's no big problem... But the risk the molestor is taking with the other person's life is wrong. No one has the right to risk someone else's mental wellbeing for their dick... I think that's what it comes down to. The reason it's wrong is because it is the epitome of selfishness...
notme2000 ...
Hmm ... Wrong? 'No big problem' ... But still a problem?
The reason no doubt being: There be predators afoot!
But regardless ...
Even if the eleven year old was a plain looking, nerdy, glasses
wearing 'chubby' kid who had an extremely poor self-image and
somewhat insensitive parents?
And who later turned into an attractive, well adjusted mother of
three who started her own, quite successful, business after the
children were raised ... And has been happily married all these
years to the same guy?
Unusual, possibly. But just maybe ... It can happen, making the
risk worth it.
Hmm ... Wrong? 'No big problem' ... But still a problem?
The reason no doubt being: There be predators afoot!
But regardless ...
Even if the eleven year old was a plain looking, nerdy, glasses
wearing 'chubby' kid who had an extremely poor self-image and
somewhat insensitive parents?
And who later turned into an attractive, well adjusted mother of
three who started her own, quite successful, business after the
children were raised ... And has been happily married all these
years to the same guy?
Unusual, possibly. But just maybe ... It can happen, making the
risk worth it.
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