Pakistan rejects pro-women bill

]I was under the impression that "honour" killings involved the woman’s own family (her brothers, her father, her cousins or her mother) that kill HER. Not some husband or boyfriend but HER actual FAMILY!



I was under the oppression that an honor killing was killing someone because the offended your honor(ego)(husbands dont count?)




Syria has even constructed special cushy prison-get-away’s reserved for brothers and fathers whom have murdered their sisters and daughters for a perceived slight – how nice.



Dont know anything about that but I do know that Syrian jails are anything but nice



So you are saying that courts unIslamic?
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What I'm saying is that if the courts want to take the decision of what to do with a murderer from the murdered victims family then that would seem to me to be against the Sharia(IMO)
 
surenderer said:
I was under the oppression that an honor killing was killing someone because the offended your honor(ego)(husbands dont count?)

Honor killings like we are talking about are, as Micheal said, perpetrated by male family members against female family members in response to some perceived breech of personal/family honor


Here lots of links





What I'm saying is that if the courts want to take the decision of what to do with a murderer from the murdered victims family then that would seem to me to be against the Sharia(IMO)

If the family is guilty of the murder how can there be any justice in leaving it up to them to dispense it.
 
Honor killings like we are talking about are, as Micheal said, perpetrated by male family members against female family members in response to some perceived breech of personal/family honor


Then indeed I stand corrected although I still say that this happens in domestic violence murders here in the West also just given a different name(husbands murdering spouses etc.....)




If the family is guilty of the murder how can there be any justice in leaving it up to them to dispense it.
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Another good point....but the courts are involved to make sure that these things are just........they just shouldnt take the family out of the equation all together......I imagine it would also be different if a family member is accused of the crime.....but I am no expert on Islamic law


peace to you :m:
 
surenderer said:
Then indeed I stand corrected although I still say that this happens in domestic violence murders here in the West also just given a different name(husbands murdering spouses etc.....)

Those type of murders happen in the countries where honor killings occur as well ie. killings where rage jealousy and just old fashioned abuse are the cause. Honor killings are strickly relating to murders resulting because of a breech of family honor.
 
The Koran: > Women --- 4:1 - "you may marry other women who seem good to you: two, three, or four of them. But if you fear that you cannot maintain equality among them, marry one only or any slave-girls you may own"

4:34 - "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, --- As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them, for sake them in beds apart, and beat them. The if they obey you, take no further action against them."

The Koran is the Word of God to a Muslim man.

Peace be with you, Paul
 
surenderer said:
Then indeed I stand corrected although I still say that this happens in domestic violence murders here in the West also just given a different name(husbands murdering spouses etc.....)
It certainly is possible to categorize acts of murder.

- Killing oneself can be distinguished between killing someone else.
- Killing in self defense can be distinguished between killing in spite.
- Killing ones wife out of jealous rage can be distinguished between paying someone to kill your wife in a cold calculating rage which is different again than being the paid assassin to do the killing.
- Killing in defense of a country can be distinguished between killing someone in conquest of a country.
- Killing ones own female family members for a perceived slight can be distinguished from all of the above and is know as “honour killing”.

I find it worthy of note that an majority Muslim and, theoretically, Islamic based Republic like Pakistan would do LESS to prevent such types of killings and declare that to do otherwise is UN-Islamic!?! Of course that makes us on the outside of Islam think – “What the . . . .!”

We are left wondering why it is a country declaring itself to be an Islamic Republic would do so little to stifle such grotesqueness, as the Pakistani’s have done? I personally am left looking at the treatment of woman in other mainly “Islamic” countries (such as the murdering of a 16 year old mentally deficient child for lewdness in Iran) and think . . . HhhhuH? It must be a reflection on the society which purports to be Islamic. And its obvious that this mentality is here to stay until the societies themselves are changed, as was the case under the dominion of the Europeans and the rapid elimination of Slavery. That's what I find funny about the other thread - the Europeans acheived in short order what Islam couldn't achieve in a over a millenia.

Unfortunately, people (read: GW Bush) feel the need to do that something. Whereas I personally would prefer to let it be as is, even if that is the case. Who am I to say that killing your sister because you didn’t like her new boyfriend is wrong? I think it is, but I can't tell you it is. . . you have to come to that realization yourself.
 
From Pakistan on the overturning of the rape conviction for six men. This woman is so great this is a real tragedy.

One of the gutsiest people on earth is Mukhtaran Bibi. And after this week, she'll need that courage just to survive.

Mukhtaran, a tall, slim young woman who never attended school as a child, lives in a poor and remote village in the Punjab area of Pakistan. As part of a village dispute in 2002, a tribal council decided to punish her family by sentencing her to be gang-raped. She begged and cried, but four of her neighbors immediately stripped her and carried out the sentence. Then her tormenters made her walk home naked while her father tried to shield her from the eyes of 300 villagers.

Mukhtaran was meant to be so shamed that she would commit suicide. But in a society where women are supposed to be soft and helpless, she proved indescribably tough, and she found the courage to live. She demanded the prosecution of her attackers, and six were sent to death row.

She received $8,300 in compensation and used it to start two schools in the village, one for boys and one for girls, because she feels that education is the best way to change attitudes like those that led to the attack on her. Illiterate herself, she then enrolled in her own elementary school.

I visited Mukhtaran in her village in September and wrote a column about her. Readers responded with an avalanche of mail, including 1,300 donations for Mukhtaran totaling $133,000.

The money arrived just in time, for Mukhtaran's schools had run out of funds. She had sold her family's cow to keep them open because she believes so passionately in the redemptive power of education.

Now that cash from readers has put the schools on a sound financial footing again. And Mercy Corps, a first-rate American aid group already active in Pakistan, has agreed to assist Mukhtaran in spending the money wisely. The next step will be to start an ambulance service for the area so sick or injured villagers can get to a hospital.

Down the road, Mukhtaran says, she will try to start her own aid group to battle honor killings. And even though she lives in a remote village without electricity, she has galvanized her supporters to launch a Web site: www.mukhtarmai.com. (Although her legal name is Mukhtaran Bibi, she is known in the Pakistani press by a variant, Mukhtar Mai).

Until two days ago, she was thriving. Then - disaster.

A Pakistani court overturned the death sentences of all six men convicted in the attack on her and ordered five of them freed. They are her neighbors and will be living alongside her. Mukhtaran was in the courthouse and collapsed in tears, fearful of the risk this brings to her family.

"Yes, there is danger," she said by telephone afterward. "We are afraid for our lives, but we will face whatever fate brings for us."

Mukhtaran, not the kind of woman to squander money on herself by flying, even when she has access to $133,000, took an exhausting 12-hour bus ride to Islamabad yesterday to appeal to the Supreme Court. Mercy Corps will help keep her in a safe location, and those donations from readers may keep her alive for the time being. But for the long term, Mukhtaran has always said she wants to stay in her village, whatever the risk, because that's where she can make the most difference.

I had planned to be in Pakistan this week to write a follow-up column about Mukhtaran. But after a month's wait, the Pakistani government has refused to give me a visa, presumably out of fear that I would write more about Pakistani nuclear peddling. (Hmm, a good idea. ...)

Mukhtaran's life illuminates what will be the central moral challenge of this century, the brutality that is the lot of so many women and girls in poor countries. For starters, because of inattention to maternal health, a woman dies in childbirth in the developing world every minute.

In Pakistan, if a woman reports a rape, four Muslim men must generally act as witnesses before she can prove her case. Otherwise, she risks being charged with fornication or adultery - and suffering a public whipping and long imprisonment.

Mukhtaran is a hero. She suffered what in her society was the most extreme shame imaginable - and emerged as a symbol of virtue. She has taken a sordid story of perennial poverty, gang rape and judicial brutality and inspired us with her faith in the power of education - and her hope.

She is no doubt what you would want a muslim woman to be surrenderer, unfortunately she has been made such a pariah that she has to rely on american aid organizations for help in her own country :(
 
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For those that are interested, their is very informitive book named 'The Trouble With Islam' written by Irshad Manji. A wake-up call for honesty and change
 
battig1370 said:
For those that are interested, their is very informitive book named 'The Trouble With Islam' written by Irshad Manji. A wake-up call for honesty and change

She has been in the press here in Norway quite abit recently an amazing woman. Her website the book is now available for free online in arabic and urdu. :cool:
 
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