Our attitude concerning mockery of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon

[S.A.M.]

Forgiven, yes. Sent home ? - maybe.

Curious, so even after being forgiven, there may be incarceration?

Again, the choices are not pardon vs punish only, but defense of the community and victims, and protection - even healing or rehabilitation - of the perp.

Hmm so forgiveness while being good for the forgivee and forgiver, are not good for the community?

So Christ overlooked all these details? Which were corrected for by his earthly followers?

 

[iceaura]

Hmm so forgiveness while being good for the forgivee and forgiver, are not good for the community?

So Christ overlooked all these details? Which were corrected for by his earthly followers?

? What are you talking about ?

 

[S.A.M.]

The healing and rehabilitation of the perp, defense of community and victim, I thought going through the saviour covered that.

What was his way for the non-Christians?

 

[GeoffP]

That he wanted not to suffer, when the point was to suffer?

Yup. Again you forget: He was also human. Do you like to suffer, Sam?

I'm not negating their belief,

Well...you kind of are.

I just don't comprehend why they call it sacrifice. It doesn't look like a choice.

Well...it was. :shrug: You think God would be incapable of deciding, at the end of the day, fuck it, I'm going home? I think you're trying to swing this around to the ol' Injeel perspective.

As regards your whole forgiver-forgivee comments: what are you talking about?

Geoff

 

[S.A.M.]

I'm just wondering where the dying for other people's sins came about. Its not evident from anything he said. Is it? From what I recall [and its been some time since I read the Bible], he had a choice between a revolution [hence the cloak for swords dialogue] or getting crucified for sedition. I assume since they came up with only two swords, it had to be the crucifixion.

 

[GeoffP]

I think you're taking that whole revolution thing in a slightly derived way yourself. It's not evident from anything he said, is it?

 

[S.A.M.]

Hmm I'd say that sell your cloak to buy swords implies he considers there may be a need for fighting back, whether in his lifetime or after his death, its hard to say, but the timing seems to imply its when he's being tried for sedition.

 

[iceaura]

Hmm I'd say that sell your cloak to buy swords implies he considers there may be a need for fighting back, whether in his lifetime or after his death, its hard to say, but the timing seems to imply its when he's being tried for sedition.

So are we discussing Christian beliefs, or some interpretation of the historical events hinted at in the Bible, or what ?

And what's with the mockery ? Have you conceded the original argument of the thread, that mockery should be tolerated under most circumstances, and Muslim touchiness on the subject is not a virtue of the faith ?

 

[GeoffP]

I think she's pointing out with the counter-argument that Christians could also be touchy about criticism. Yet, that doesn't justify violence.

 

[iceaura]

I think she's pointing out with the counter-argument that Christians could also be touchy about criticism.

How is that a counter-argument ?

 

[GeoffP]

Criticizing the Christian central tenet, making people annoyed and upset. But its still not illegal.

 

[S.A.M.]

What mockery? I'm asking Christians about their beliefs. I've been asked ad nauseum and have answered about my beliefs, why should anyone get annoyed or upset? :shrug:

Is it mockery to ask why Christians have this tenet?

 

[iceaura]

Is it mockery to ask why Christians have this tenet?

That depends partly on what tenets you assert they have, or in your view are supposed to have, and the language used in the assertion.

 

[S.A.M.]

That depends partly on what tenets you assert they have, or in your view are supposed to have, and the language used in the assertion.

They are free to assert their own tenets, or explain them, as I have.

Would you care to expound on the origin of the salvation tenet?

By the way, are you Christian?

 

[(Q)]

They are free to assert their own tenets, or explain them, as I have.

Maybe they aren't interested in doling out propaganda, as you have. :shrug:

 

[iceaura]

They are free to assert their own tenets, or explain them, as I have.

And when they do, as Geoff has, you are well advised to take their word for them. They're probably right, no?

Besides, tenets vary somewhat among different Christians.

Would you care to expound on the origin of the salvation tenet?

The tenet itself is at issue; it's origin can wait.

 

[S.A.M.]

The tenet itself is at issue.

Explain. Do all Christians not believe in salvation through Christ?

 

[GeoffP]

Pretty much all, but it varies, like most things.

 

[S.A.M.]

Okay, and my question was, why do they all believe in the concept of salvation? What is it based on?

 

[GeoffP]

Matthew, as I recall: "no one comes to God except through me".