organised religion vs cults

[Redoubtable]

Originally posted by Nasor
Unlike conventional religions, cults usually have the following chatacteristics:

-Encouraging members to cut ties with family and friends.

-Discouraging asking questions or discussing issues.

-Keeping aspects of their religious beliefs or practices secret from outsiders and/or their own members.

-Discouraging members from keeping informed through newspapers, magazines, etc.

-Attempting to coerce members who wish to leave into staying.

--Invading the privacy of members, especially by spying on members.

Except for those two, I'd say that these characteristics apply to Christianity.

 

[Nasor]

Originally posted by Redoubtable
Except for those two, I'd say that these characteristics apply to Christianity.

I'm not christian myself, but I was raised in a lutheran household and attended catholic school through high school. I've never had any experiences that would lead me to believe mainstream christian churches meet any of those criteria, except perhaps trying to coerce people into staying, since many of them will try to convince you that you'll go to hell if you leave. Even then, I've never heard of a main-line christian church engaging in the sort of behavior that cults often resort to in order to keep members. Maybe other people's experiences have been different.

People do seem to have a point about the early christian church being more of a cult, though.

 

[Nehushta]

Originally posted by the max
your quoting single scriptures again you find the answer for this when you look for it ,but it was men who always took the lead
1tim 2 v12 also we have the scripture ep5 v21-24

These passages simply explain that Paul was a sexist - I think must of us are already aware of that, but thank you for pointing it out. But beyond that, he didn' t want people asking questions or disputing about theological points - my point being that early Christianity was very much a cult.

no more time but i wish you people would stop looking up 1 or2 scriptures and then quoting them as fact why not search more and find the answer its always there ,but then that would be defeating your purpose, of a futile attempt to discredit the bible of which i am sure you aleady know it wont succeed,

Then instead of whining about it, prove us wrong.

did not Darwin even concede that everyting had a creator

If you're referring to the Lady Hope story, this was shown to be just one more in a long list of shameless Christian lies spread for the dubious benefit of furthering the kingdom of God.

 

[Nehushta]

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
Excellent post, Nehush! xians usually avoid these scriptures when they hunt and peck the Bible. It defeats THEIR purpose.

Thanks, MW! Yes, Christians will always see just what they want to see when they read their bibles - nothing more, nothing less. *sigh* I guess it brings them some kind of comfort to think that all they have to do is believe that God came to earth as a man (or sent his son, or both) to take all the punishment for all their sins so they won't have to do any of the tough spiritual work themselves. It must give them the warm fuzzies all over - until people like us go and ruin the fantasy for them. But you know, if they hadn't spent so many years of my life trying to shove it down my throat, they wouldn't find themselves on the receiving end when I vomit it all back out.

 

[okinrus]

These passages simply explain that Paul was a sexist - I think must of us are already aware of that, but thank you for pointing it out. But beyond that, he didn' t want people asking questions or disputing about theological points - my point being that early Christianity was very much a cult.

Paul was <em>not</em> sexist.

2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The god of this world is Satan.

Jesus himself encouraged his disciples to cut ties with their families (see Mark 10:29-30, Matthew 10:34-37, Matthew 19:29 and Luke 12:49-53) and even required them to hate their families (see Luke 14:26). Paul also advised his congregation to keep themselves separate from unbelievers (see 2 Cr 6:14-18).

Aramaic word for hate can mean set aside and it is speculated that Luke is using quotations from an aramaic source. Nevertheless, the real meaning that Jesus wants to convey is that he's not proclaiming peace like the false prophets of Jeremiah's time but true peace. And why wouldn't Paul caution his disciples? The Corintheans were filled with prostitutes when Paul wrote that.

See Mark 10:15 and Luke 18:17 where it warns people that they must be as gullible as little children or they will not enter the kingdom of God.

It does not say "childish" it says "like a child". The two are very different.

Paul didn't want women asking questions in church, although they were permitted to ask their husbands at home (1Cr 14:35). Also, Paul warned against any sort of behavior that would result in debates (see 2Cr 12:20).

What exactly does "rivalry, jelousy, fury, selfishness, slander, gossip, conceit, and disorder" have to do with debate? Perhaps you should not just quote from the bible but explain exactly what your quotations are going to prove.

Since it is near the end of my lunch hour, I will have to pick this up again another time. But I hope I have given you enough here so that you will see that Christianity definitely started out as a cult, pretty much by anyone's standards.

From as early as 100AD you can read dialogs with other religions. Christians were not forced to be christians. They could have gave up their faith when they were persecuted by the Romans. Early christians were certainly convinced of the truthood contained in christianity, if not more than most christians today.

 

[Nehushta]

Originally posted by okinrus
Paul was <em>not</em> sexist.

Okay. So what do you call it?

The god of this world is Satan.

Did you have a point here, or do you just like to throw in the occasional non sequitur?

Aramaic word for hate can mean set aside and it is speculated that Luke is using quotations from an aramaic source.

Aside from the obvious question of why this allegedly infallible book wasn't translated properly, the meaning you suggested still qualifies early Christianity as a cult - Jesus wanted people to isolate themselves from their families. This is classic cult behavior.

Nevertheless, the real meaning that Jesus wants to convey is that he's not proclaiming peace like the false prophets of Jeremiah's time but true peace.

Please define "true peace."

And why wouldn't Paul caution his disciples? The Corintheans were filled with prostitutes when Paul wrote that.

A frightening situation for them, I'm sure. Funny thing though, this never seemed to bother Jesus. Besides, I don't think it was so much "adulterers" that Paul was worried about, as "idolators." It was pretty much seen as the same thing in those days, except one was unfaithfulness to a spouse, while the other was unfaithfulness to God. Another funny thing, though - Christians were the biggest idolators around!

It does not say "childish" it says "like a child". The two are very different.

The phrase I used was "gullible as little children" - where did you see the word, "childish" in there? Gullibility is very childlike, if you ask me.

What exactly does "rivalry, jelousy, fury, selfishness, slander, gossip, conceit, and disorder" have to do with debate? Perhaps you should not just quote from the bible but explain exactly what your quotations are going to prove.

Check the KJV, which uses the following words: "debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults."

From as early as 100AD you can read dialogs with other religions. Christians were not forced to be christians. They could have gave up their faith when they were persecuted by the Romans. Early christians were certainly convinced of the truthood contained in christianity, if not more than most christians today.

They were forced to be Christians later on, though, starting somewhere around the 5th century. It's only in fairly recent history that people who live in predominantly Christian countries have been permitted a choice in the matter.