One thoughtful question
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
Religiously speaking the Quran IS perfect, but this perfection is in Arabic. There is no perfect translation, or there could be one but we can't know for sure.
Logically speaking you are asking for a possibility. It is quite possible that some words were not properly written in some Quran due to printing mistakes which would make a imperfect Quran but then again this only really shows the imperfection of man.
It is also possible that the accent marks we see today do not 100% represent the actual pronunciation. This argument is based on the fact that early Arabic script lacked accent marks.
Anyways, in content the Quran is Perfect (from a religious perspective). And again this perfection is in Arabic because a language is more than just words if you understand what I am saying. In order for a translation to encompass the depths of a language, you would most certainly need background information about linguistics to understand it. Which would in essence go back to Arabic and the Arab culture and so on..
Peace be unto you
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Reality.
It's obviously not perfect because even theoretically, the perfect version was dictated to Mohammed, lost, and later reassembled from memory and various incomplete sources. In history, there has been more than one version.
How is reality perfect...or, what do you mean by reality? Life? Perception? What?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Reality = Everything. It cannot be not perfect.
Elaborate for us lower forms of life, if you would please.
How do you arrive to the conclusion that reality is perfect?
If reality = everything, then everything is perfect according to what you are saying.
So, what is everything? My body is part of everything, and it is not perfect. I'm confused.
Perfection as with any thing is in the eye of the beholder. One person's perfection maybe another person's non perfection. The problem would lie in getting everybody to see the same thing as the next person that will never happen there will all ways be one person that will not see the effect as the others do.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Everything in one, the whole. By whos standards would it not perfect?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
This is true. Perfection actually does not exist. But it is impossible for reality to be imperfect.
Again reality is ones perception of ones being which means I could indeed preceive reality different from you so with that in mind which would be perfect mine or yours. And who would get to pick which one is the best?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Yes, you can perceive reality different than I do. But you and I both still perceive the same reality.
Neither of our perceptions are perfect.
If our perceptions are not perfect, how can we know reality is perfect? Perfect is a quality measure. So, you are saying reality is of the highest quality and can not be higher. If reality cannot be perceived perfectly, then that is a flaw of reality and also our perception. If reality were perfect we would not need perfect perceptions.
If reality were perfect, and our perceptions were not, we would not know the difference. So you cannot say with certainty that reality is perfect because, as you said, we all perceive reality differently.
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If this sacred text were perfect, there would be no bad Muslims.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Forget it :wallbang:
I think this is an assumption that "self perfection" also perfects something else, and I find this idea ridiculous.
@ Michael
I was going to ask you what type of perfection you meant but I think the sensible replies of others have shown that this question is not going to go anywhere, I think that is why I asked you to think about the assumptions behind a question before asking one..
Anyways,
Peace be unto you
I think I understand your answer. But I'm asking about possibilities.Religiously speaking the Quran IS perfect, but this perfection is in Arabic. There is no perfect translation, or there could be one but we can't know for sure.
Logically speaking you are asking for a possibility. It is quite possible that some words were not properly written in some Quran due to printing mistakes which would make a imperfect Quran but then again this only really shows the imperfection of man.
It is also possible that the accent marks we see today do not 100% represent the actual pronunciation. This argument is based on the fact that early Arabic script lacked accent marks.
Anyways, in content the Quran is Perfect (from a religious perspective). And again this perfection is in Arabic because a language is more than just words if you understand what I am saying. In order for a translation to encompass the depths of a language, you would most certainly need background information about linguistics to understand it. Which would in essence go back to Arabic and the Arab culture and so on..
Peace be unto you
Does the possibility exist, that the Qur'an is NOT religiously perfect?
So, to be clear, I'm not asking you if the Qur'an is religiously perfect. I'm asking you if you if the possibility exist, that the Qur'an is NOT religiously perfect?
Logically speaking Possibilities exist for EVERYTHING and anything! That is, you can make any claim you want. There is a possibility that you are a female (if you are a man).
Let me try to say it this way. Suppose you have a clear liquid still in a glass. You can say the possibilities include that the liquid could be water, some clear alcohol like ethanol, and anything that is found to be clear liquid. Regardless of what the possibilities are the reality is that it is what it is.
So asking for the possibility is actually irrelevant, especially in this situation, you should have just made a more concrete question.
There are infinite possibilities for the Quran to be perfect, not perfect, and anything else people want to add, but the probability of anything except perfection is 0. And the reason there are all these possibilities are because no one has tested all of them to remove them from the list of "possibilities". Some people maybe confused about how can there be many possibilities if the probability of them is 0, but if you think about it you will probably understand.
Anyways I think you should just think up of a better question
Peace be unto you
Let me try to say it this way. Suppose you have a clear liquid still in a glass. You can say the possibilities include that the liquid could be water, some clear alcohol like ethanol, and anything that is found to be clear liquid. Regardless of what the possibilities are the reality is that it is what it is.
So asking for the possibility is actually irrelevant, especially in this situation, you should have just made a more concrete question.
There are infinite possibilities for the Quran to be perfect, not perfect, and anything else people want to add, but the probability of anything except perfection is 0. And the reason there are all these possibilities are because no one has tested all of them to remove them from the list of "possibilities". Some people maybe confused about how can there be many possibilities if the probability of them is 0, but if you think about it you will probably understand.
Anyways I think you should just think up of a better question
Peace be unto you