One dead goldfish and the nature of suffering

Quantum Quack

Quantum Quack

Life's a tease...
Valued Senior Member
Journal Notes:
Yesterday I had three goldfish in a tank. This morning I have two living goldfish and one dead one.

Why?
I guess it was because I over fed them and this killed one of the goldfish.
Whilst the others were recoevring I noticed that they seems to lack any will to continue in fact they appeared quite accepting of their impending deaths.

It dawned on me that for a goldfish his sole purpose in life is to search for and find food. By over feeding them I accidently neutralised that need to find food. They had no purpose to keep living for as they had satisfied themselves by over indulging.

People are the same they crave purpose and when satisfied they have zero to live for. Depression and then death by suicide is usually the outcome.

So why is there suffering?
Care to discuss?
 
Bored little fish in their tiny, wet piscean Toyko-apartment-sized habitats.

Oddly there are people, and even animals, that stop eating when full and do not die or give up their desires, but move on to other things.

Part of why there is suffering is because of all the theories, like the implicit one in your 'story' about why this or that natural part of us is bad.

Me, I treat my internal goldfish well and they thrive in a complicated environment.
 
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when satisfied they have zero to live for. Depression and then death by suicide is usually the outcome.


you're confusing satisfaction with boredom.
 
Quantum Quack said:
Journal Notes:
Yesterday I had three goldfish in a tank. This morning I have two living goldfish and one dead one.

Why?
I guess it was because I over fed them and this killed one of the goldfish.
Whilst the others were recoevring I noticed that they seems to lack any will to continue in fact they appeared quite accepting of their impending deaths.

It dawned on me that for a goldfish his sole purpose in life is to search for and find food. By over feeding them I accidently neutralised that need to find food. They had no purpose to keep living for as they had satisfied themselves by over indulging.

People are the same they crave purpose and when satisfied they have zero to live for. Depression and then death by suicide is usually the outcome.

So why is there suffering?
Care to discuss?
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm new, and it's impossible to find purpose.
If you give purpose to your life, you must realise that purpose cannot be valid for an infinite amount of time.
If the universe, and time are infinite, what purpose can possibly hold true till the end (that never comes?)
If the universe and time are finite, and they actually end, then, wouldn't that destroy all purpose too?
A person never finds purpose and commits suicide.
A person realises there can be no purpose, and commits suicide, or... joins forums.
 
IJesusChrist said:
Hi, I'm new, and it's impossible to find purpose.
If you give purpose to your life, you must realise that purpose cannot be valid for an infinite amount of time.
If the universe, and time are infinite, what purpose can possibly hold true till the end (that never comes?)
If the universe and time are finite, and they actually end, then, wouldn't that destroy all purpose too?
A person never finds purpose and commits suicide.
A person realises there can be no purpose, and commits suicide, or... joins forums.
Click to expand...
some purposes last 5 minutes some last a life time and so on...

does that help?
 
Yesterday I had three goldfish in a tank. This morning I have two living goldfish and one dead one.
Click to expand...

Perhaps there wasn't enough oxygen in the water for all 3?
 
cosmictraveler said:
Perhaps there wasn't enough oxygen in the water for all 3?
Click to expand...

hmmmm no I don't think this is it as the water was fresh about 4 days old.
but any ways...the philosophical side of it is actuuuuuaaaaaaly the purpose of the thread...ha

The incident of the goldfish just clarified the issue of why suffering is necessary as a motivator. The fish if hungry have a purpose to exist, that being to relieve their hunger. If that purpose is fulfilled at any time then they have no motivation to go on living.
By over feeding them they indulged themselves into a state of non-purpose.

This ties in with the notion that "heaven" would actually be the same as what we have in life but only a little bit better...other wise heaven would be hell with no purpose or need to do anything.
So to bring "heaven" to earth man must take into account the need to maintain a purposeful exsitance. In other words suffering is necessary to motivate us to move to find relief. Without suffering there can be no relief. It is all a matter of balance and degree as to whether it is heaven or hell on Earth.
 
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The main purpose to exist is to always make certain that the next generation will be able to enjoy the Earth as much as you have while you were here. To take care of the Earth and all of its nature and beauty is the one thing humans can do but seem to overlook.
 
cosmictraveler said:
The main purpose to exist is to always make certain that the next generation will be able to enjoy the Earth as much as you have while you were here. To take care of the Earth and all of its nature and beauty is the one thing humans can do but seem to overlook.
Click to expand...
gardening can be fun too! [looking after our beautiful planet that is]
 
When needs are met, we move onto seeking purpose in another way.
The more adept we are at fulfilling needs, the more we can accomplish outside of direct needs.

Then again, there is a tipping point.
When every need is met, and every desire is catered to - there is nothing to work and strive for.

Idle hands are the Devil's workshop.
Spoiled, bored teenagers are a perfect example of this.
 
I went back to the aquarium I purchased the fish from and had a chat with one of the erudite store persons.
My question was regarding: How long dos it take a gold fish to Starve to death. [ given no food ]

Her reply was any where between 6 and 14 days as a rule although some have lasted consideranbly longer.
I asked her whether she agreed with teh recommended food delivery of twice daily all you can eat in 2 minutes routine. She said she did not. You end up with sleepy fish becasue they are full all the time.

I asked her what if I ran a routine of feeding only once every 3 days and allowed them to graze on water plants.

She said that after 2 days you will find them grazing.

So all in all it seems that "lean and mean" is the way to go.
By reducing the supply the fish start to use their inniative and search out their own food supplies. Keeping the aquarium cleaner by eating algae and brighter with their movements. [ and keeping the plants vigourous in growth.]
So reducing supply increased creativity or inniative and decreases maintenance...[human analogue could be the current trend to recycle]

reminds me a bit of the street scape in Sao Paulo Brazil [ total chaos but utterly amazing.]
 
one_raven said:
When needs are met, we move onto seeking purpose in another way.
The more adept we are at fulfilling needs, the more we can accomplish outside of direct needs.

Then again, there is a tipping point.
When every need is met, and every desire is catered to - there is nothing to work and strive for.

Idle hands are the Devil's workshop.
Spoiled, bored teenagers are a perfect example of this.
Click to expand...
So it comes down to balance yes? Finding the right mix so that the need to find reason to go on is also met.

The current obesity crisis here {australia} is a good example of an over indulgent society IMO
 
cosmictraveler said:
The main purpose to exist is to always make certain that the next generation will be able to enjoy the Earth as much as you have while you were here.
Click to expand...

It seems that this touches on the primary purpose of any life form's existence - namely to create more of that life form... This would raise the question of why does the universe need a next generation of goldfish?

Feeding or eating simply is an aspect of improving one's lot in life, the primary reason why people and other organisms are motivated to do anything - but, this ultimately brings us back to the proposition that it is all in order to create the next generation...

The usually cited exception is homo sapiens, because we have the apparently unique ability to self-reflect, to ask why initially.... Perhaps this in itself serves some cosmic purpose?

By the way, fish do not die from "overeating", what happens is that "overfeeding" turns their habitat into a cesspool, rife with anaerobic bacteria that change the environment - if you actually have questions regarding the care and feeding of fish, coldwater or tropical, PM me as this is somewhat a specialty of mine...
 
Randwolf said:
It seems that this touches on the primary purpose of any life form's existence - namely to create more of that life form... This would raise the question of why does the universe need a next generation of goldfish?

Feeding or eating simply is an aspect of improving one's lot in life, the primary reason why people and other organisms are motivated to do anything - but, this ultimately brings us back to the proposition that it is all in order to create the next generation...

The usually cited exception is homo sapiens, because we have the apparently unique ability to self-reflect, to ask why initially.... Perhaps this in itself serves some cosmic purpose?

By the way, fish do not die from "overeating", what happens is that "overfeeding" turns their habitat into a cesspool, rife with anaerobic bacteria that change the environment - if you actually have questions regarding the care and feeding of fish, coldwater or tropical, PM me as this is somewhat a specialty of mine...
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, just that the over feeding must have transformed the water within about 2 hours or so...which I find rather surprising but hey my excuse is that I am new at this. Also I am not convinced that goldfish have reproduction in mind although instinctively they myust be wired so to speak. It seems that the primary motivation is to stay alive in the first instance and reproduction will occur if they manage that.

But this is not really the issue of this thread.
The goldfish scenario is really just a vehicle to discuss why there is sufferance in the world and not bliss [ as in that sci fi movie "Serenity"]
 
Quantum Quack said:
Journal Notes:
Yesterday I had three goldfish in a tank. This morning I have two living goldfish and one dead one.

Why?
I guess it was because I over fed them and this killed one of the goldfish.
Whilst the others were recoevring I noticed that they seems to lack any will to continue in fact they appeared quite accepting of their impending deaths.

It dawned on me that for a goldfish his sole purpose in life is to search for and find food. By over feeding them I accidently neutralised that need to find food. They had no purpose to keep living for as they had satisfied themselves by over indulging.

People are the same they crave purpose and when satisfied they have zero to live for. Depression and then death by suicide is usually the outcome.

So why is there suffering?
Care to discuss?
Click to expand...

The goldfish probably just died of the pollution from the rotting excess fish food. The two remaining ones, are feeling it too..
You are poisoning your fish.
Clean your aquarium, they might live.
 
In brief the film depicts amongst other things the use of atmospheric medication globally. Used to medicate the population into a state of non- aggression and passivity. So successful was the medication that the entire global populationof many millions died due to teh lack of any motivation to do anything. Death can be so serene!
Those that survived went totally to the opposite extreme and became incredibly psychotically aggressive.
 
Enmos said:
The goldfish probably just died of the pollution from the rotting excess fish food. The two remaining ones, are feeling it too..
You are poisoning your fish.
Clean your aquarium, they might live.
Click to expand...
the tanks only 4 days old and the water is properly treated as far as I know but good advice all the same.
 
ok...point taken....have already changed the water any way...thanks
rots that fast? incredible!
 
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