On theist-secular relations

[lightgigantic]

That's not what I'm saying at all. As usual, you have to twist my words in order to make your point.

what are you talking about?
you even use the word "greater"
:shrug:

But god creates those limitations and contradictions. The fact that omnipotence is limited by logic means that omnipotence is a logical fallacy.

No it means that logic provides a limit for what is tenable.
Its got nothing to do with potency .. omni or otherwise

Unless you're positing that god can create a stone greater than he can move, of course.

No more than a bachelor can be married, a circle can have four sides or you can be your own biological father
:shrug:

Please. You shrug literally in every post. It's more likely a nervous tick than a reaction to anything you've read on the forums.

Its my special treat for you.
:shrug:

 

[Balerion]

what are you talking about?
you even use the word "greater"

What are you talking about? Yes I used the word "greater" but I never said or implied that anything was greater than god. I asked if he could lift a stone greater (meaning a measure of size or weight, not of significance) than he could lift. Where are you getting lost? :shrug:

No it means that logic provides a limit for what is tenable.
Its got nothing to do with potency .. omni or otherwise

Of course it does, LG. That logic was supposedly created by God, so how does it also limit him?

No more than a bachelor can be married, a circle can have four sides or you can be your own biological father

You're either being intentionally obtuse, or perhaps you're punching above your weight. Either way, the result is the same. We're not getting anywhere here.

:shrug:

Its my special treat for you.

You do it for everyone, not just me. :shrug:

 

[lightgigantic]

What are you talking about? Yes I used the word "greater" but I never said or implied that anything was greater than god. I asked if he could lift a stone greater (meaning a measure of size or weight, not of significance) than he could lift. Where are you getting lost? :shrug:

Hence the rock would be greater than god (in this case greater than his capacity to budge) ... much like if you could be your own biological father, you would be greater than your self (in the sense that you would be a cause greater than your being)

Of course it does, LG. That logic was supposedly created by God, so how does it also limit him?

lol
Logic is created?

You're either being intentionally obtuse, or perhaps you're punching above your weight. Either way, the result is the same. We're not getting anywhere here.

I can't figure whether you are simply pretending to be stupid and being very good at it or if you really don't understand these simple straight forward points

:shrug:

You do it for everyone, not just me.

especially for you, since I know how much you love them

 

[Balerion]

Hence the rock would be greater than god (in this case greater than his capacity to budge) ... much like if you could be your own biological father, you would be greater than your self (in the sense that you would be a cause greater than your being)

No, that's not what greater means. There are numerous free dictionaries online, so there's no excuse for not knowing what a word means. Try this one.

lol
Logic is created?

If there is an omnipotent being, yes.

I can't figure whether you are simply pretending to be stupid and being very good at it or if you really don't understand these simple straight forward points

The "I know you are but what am I" routine didn't work in Kindergarten, and it certainly doesn't work now.

Oh, and don't call someone stupid and then butcher your spelling and grammar in the same sentence.

 

[lightgigantic]

No, that's not what greater means. There are numerous free dictionaries online, so there's no excuse for not knowing what a word means. Try this one.

sure - those definitions are fine
Now with this new knowledge at your disposal go back to what I said and see if you are any wiser
:shrug:

If there is an omnipotent being, yes.

I'm afraid you will have to explain how potency surmounts logic if you want to start making sense
:shrug:

The "I know you are but what am I" routine didn't work in Kindergarten, and it certainly doesn't work now.

Oh, and don't call someone stupid and then butcher your spelling and grammar in the same sentence.

I'm guessing its the former (pretending to be stupid and being very good at it) ... but I could be wrong

:shrug:

 

[Balerion]

sure - those definitions are fine
Now with this new knowledge at your disposal go back to what I said and see if you are any wiser

Those definitions contradict what you say, LG. You know this.

I'm afraid you will have to explain how potency surmounts logic if you want to start making sense

The same way potency apparently surmounts causation. Are you aware that you worship a god that has no beginning? This is all supposedly his domain, all his creation. Are you asserting that logic exists beyond his creation? Understand that you can't win this exchange, because even if logic is something that existed before creation, it is still a limiting force upon God's potency, so therefore he is not omnipotent.

I'm guessing its the former (pretending to be stupid and being very good at it) ... but I could be wrong

No more wrong than your grammar, if that's any consolation.

 

[lightgigantic]

Those definitions contradict what you say, LG. You know this.

Not if you read them in the sentence that I put them in.
You can read sentences other than one's you type I assume ...

The same way potency apparently surmounts causation.

Since you have already proven you have access to online dictionaries I assume you don't need a definition of the word "eternal"

Are you aware that you worship a god that has no beginning?

Kind of a requirement for something declared as being eternal and causeless.
Please note how designating something eternal means that one cannot also designate it as having a beginning and an end.


T

his is all supposedly his domain, all his creation.

that and a whole lot more

Are you asserting that logic exists beyond his creation?

sure

I mean I don't think even you would be whacky enough to start talking about eternal causeless things that have a cause and an end ..... or would you
:scratchin:

Understand that you can't win this exchange, because even if logic is something that existed before creation, it is still a limiting force upon God's potency, so therefore he is not omnipotent.

ooops speak of the devil!!

So now god is not only not omnipotent because he cannot create something greater than himself but he is also not omnipotent because he cannot render eternal causeless existence to the parameters of being caused and having an end

 

[wynn]

God is also not omnipotent because He can't/doesn't/won't make JDawg believe in Him.

 

[Balerion]

Not if you read them in the sentence that I put them in.
You can read sentences other than one's you type I assume ...




Since you have already proven you have access to online dictionaries I assume you don't need a definition of the word "eternal"



Kind of a requirement for something declared as being eternal and causeless.
Please note how designating something eternal means that one cannot also designate it as having a beginning and an end.


T
that and a whole lot more


sure

I mean I don't think even you would be whacky enough to start talking about eternal causeless things that have a cause and an end ..... or would you
:scratchin:



ooops speak of the devil!!

So now god is not only not omnipotent because he cannot create something greater than himself but he is also not omnipotent because he cannot render eternal causeless existence to the parameters of being caused and having an end

This exercise has long since past the point of its usefulness. Clearly you aren't capable of or willing to understand these concepts, so our conversation is at an end.

 

[Balerion]

God is also not omnipotent because He can't/doesn't/won't make JDawg believe in Him.

Again with the "He". You're quite the monotheist, Wynn.

 

[wynn]

It was a pun on you.

 

[Balerion]

It was a pun on you.

Do you not know what a pun is, either?

 

[lightgigantic]

This exercise has long since past the point of its usefulness. Clearly you aren't capable of or willing to understand these concepts, so our conversation is at an end.

will the irony never end?
:shrug:

 

[wynn]

So, JDawg, finally tell us what "JDawg" stands for.

I'm guessing - "Jehovah's Dog."