On mystical atheists

The Challenge, Simply Stated

The challenge facing the "mystical atheist" is clear enough and simply stated: Show the reality of these "mystical" aspects.

Applying Clarke's Third Law, one simply must identify and verify the natural processes, thus rendering them mundane, and not mystical or supernatural.

Take astral projection, for instance. That one's already explained; you aren't "projecting" or "traveling" anywhere other than inside your own mind and brain. Traditional flying ointment? It is clove oil and hashish oil in a generic base such as jojoba oil, applied to the temples. That some can achieve similar effects through meditation isn't especially confounding. Nor that we have a massive anecdotal history of similar experiences amid traumatic experience. Astral projection, while it may actually offer some psychiatric benefit, is nothing more than a chemical state in the brain.

The animal self? Grill on a couple grams of good S. cubensis and take a moment to examine yourself in the mirror on a trip to the toilet. My animal self is some sort of jaguar or other large cat, as near as I can tell from the perceptual distortions about my reflection. Then again, I recall an acid trip in which my girlfriend's "spirit animal" turned out to be a Swiss Miss looking Weeble, and one of our friends revealed himself as orange and green plastic pork chops. In the end, I'm not a cat, she's not a Weeble, and he isn't a child's toy kitchen set, no matter what I might have seen.

The science will point to brain chemistry long before it discovers anything we might otherwise describe as a spirit world, astral plane, besom flight, or other such magick.
 
The challenge facing the "mystical atheist" is clear enough and simply stated: Show the reality of these "mystical" aspects.

Mystical aspects as in beyond perception? How about dark matter? As in beyond spacetime? How about singularities and mbranes? As in faster than light communication? How about quantum entanglement? As in consciousness itself changing the state of a phenomena? How bout the collapse of the wave function? As in something being in two opposite states at once? How about a quantum superposition? As in teleportation thru solid barriers? How bout quantum tunneling? As in beyond human knowledge? How about the position AND speed of an electron? As in appearing out of nowhere? How bout virtual particles? As in many things becoming one thing? How about Bose-Einstein condensates? As in the past, present and future existing all at the same time? How about Einstein's block universe? As in the future changing the past? How bout retrocausality?

Seems to me science is doing a fine job turning up many mystical aspects of reality. I don't think they need MY help. Mystical ofcourse taken in the sense of the transcendental and not the supernatural.
 
I don't believe in paranormal phenomena because of mysticism. I believe it because of science. The evidence from investigations, photos, videos, and eyewitness accounts. Same as we would use to confirm the existence of the giant squid.

Such investigations, photos, videos and eyewitness accounts are often corrected when the truth about particular events, images, etc, are brought to light by scientists.

There is a reason why none of these images or videos, etc, ever appear on actual scientific sites or in their peer reviewed journals on scientific sites or magazines.

No one used a psychic, dream interpretation or divining rod to determine the existence of the giant squid. We knew they existed because enough of them had been seen and caught by fishermen and washed up on beaches for people throughout history to know they existed. They were not mystical. Far from it. Even Aristotle wrote about them and described them. People wrote books about them being monsters that could sink ships to scare people, but their actual existence was never questioned. I have yet to see any scientific papers that prove the existence of ghosts and spirits or the paranormal in the same way.
 
Mystical aspects as in beyond perception? How about dark matter? As in beyond spacetime? How about singularities and mbranes? As in faster than light communication? How about quantum entanglement? As in consciousness itself changing the state of a phenomena? How bout the collapse of the wave function? As in something being in two opposite states at once? How about a quantum superposition? As in teleportation thru solid barriers? How bout quantum tunneling? As in beyond human knowledge? How about the position AND speed of an electron? As in appearing out of nowhere? How bout virtual particles? As in many things becoming one thing? How about Bose-Einstein condensates? As in the past, present and future existing all at the same time? How about Einstein's block universe?

Seems to me science is doing a fine job turning up many mystical aspects of reality. I don't think they need MY help. Mystical ofcourse taken in the sense of the transcendental and not the supernatural.
*Raises eyebrows*

Are you claiming physics is mystical?
 
There is a reason why none of these images or videos, etc, ever appear on actual scientific sites or in their peer reviewed journals on scientific sites or magazines.

That reason being there is such a taboo on just considering this a topic worthy of research that anyone or any journal doing so would immediately lose it's authority as peer-reviewed. Nobody is going to risk their career and future funding to present any of this evidence as credible. That's why you won't see it in scientific journals.
 
*Raises eyebrows*

Are you claiming physics is mystical?

No..I'm claiming reality is mystical. And the facts of science back this up. There's absolutely nothing mundane about claiming the universe and everything in it poofed into existence from a particle the size of pea 12.5 billion years ago. This fact alone should've given us a clue long ago that we are dealing with something far beyond our ability to comprehend it. As if our human models come anywhere close to encapsulating all that is possible in this reality.
 
No..I'm claiming reality is mystical. And the facts of science back this up. There's absolutely nothing mundane about claiming the universe and everything in it poofed into existence from a particle the size of pea 12.5 billion years ago. This fact alone should've given us a clue long ago that we are dealing with something far beyond our ability to comprehend it. As if our human models come anywhere close to encapsulating all that is possible in this reality.
Sooooo...

You believe in intelligent design, but you don't know who the designer is?
 
The Obvious Point

Magical Realist said:

No..I don't believe in God or intelligent design at all. I believe in Reality. Isn't that enough?

As a static existence, sure. Anything else is up to you, and it doesn't really matter how much other people might laugh when you call yourself an atheist.
 
No..I don't believe in God or intelligent design at all. I believe in Reality. Isn't that enough?
When your reality does the tap dance along the lines of intelligent design, then I fail to see how you can claim that you do not believe in a deity or something, perhaps something called Frank, or ID.
 
Guess it pays to be email buddies..

Hold on... I gotta pick myself up off the floor after laughing like that...

Welcome to real life, Magical Realist - some people aren't going to be "nice" to you. However, just because they think your theories are insane and that you are full of it, that doesn't make saying as such a personal insult.

Edit - removed my comment made in poor taste and even poorer judgement.
 
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When your reality does the tap dance along the lines of intelligent design, then I fail to see how you can claim that you do not believe in a deity or something, perhaps something called Frank, or ID.

I see. So now you're gonna tell ME what I believe. Was there something about the concept of mystical that you failed to grasp?
 
Hold on... I gotta pick myself up off the floor after laughing like that...

Welcome to real life, Magical Realist - some people aren't going to be "nice" to you. However, just because they think your theories are insane and that you are full of it, that doesn't make saying as such a personal insult.

Now...

If, for example, Balerion had said "You are a dunderheaded dickfart who's so full of shit he can't see reality for the brown in front of his own face"... that would be an insult.

Such valiant and passionate defense of your buddy, complete with a veiled insult to me. How touching..lol!
 
That reason being there is such a taboo on just considering this a topic worthy of research that anyone or any journal doing so would immediately lose it's authority as peer-reviewed. Nobody is going to risk their career and future funding to present any of this evidence as credible. That's why you won't see it in scientific journals.

Right. The Great Scientific Conspriacy it is, then.

The great thing about science is that the truth always wins out. If there were credible evidence to support these claims, no amount of eye-rolling and scoffing could stop it from becoming mainstream. Nothing.

The fact is, people are loons. They believe in bullshit. You recently told me that those photos of "faries" were not faked. You told me this, as if you were In any psoition to say so. You constant retreat into babyish proclamations such as that are evidence that somewhere inside that brain of yours, even you don't believe it. You choose to maintain the delusion.
 
Allow me to toss an actual insult into the mix then:

You are so out of touch with reality as to think I have formed some sort of personal friendship/attachment to Balerion, the selfsame one who, not two weeks ago was cussing me out and otherwise out for my blood...
Pull... your head... out of your ass.

Seriously. You are like a prepubescent child - the slightest bit of conflict and you go crying to, well, anyone that listens really, desperate to have the "offender" removed from the conversation.

Ain't gonna fly here... in fact, at this point, I hazard to guess that most moderators see your name on a "reported post" email and immediately trash the damned thing.

On the next episode of "Moderators Behaving Badly"...
 
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