On Jewish theism

[wynn]

A major Jewish religious figure in Israel has likened non-Jews to donkeys and beasts of burden, saying the main reason for their very existence is to serve Jews.

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, spiritual mentor of the religious fundamentalist party, Shas, which represents Middle Eastern Jews, reportedly said during a Sabbath homily earlier this week that “the sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews.”

/.../

“Non-Jews were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world-only to serve the People of Israel,” Yosef said in his weekly Saturday night sermon which was devoted to laws regarding actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on the Sabbath.

Yosef also reportedly said that the lives of non-Jews in Israel are preserved by God in order to prevent losses to Jews.

Yosef, widely considered a prominent Torah sage and authority on the interpretation of Talmud, a basic Jewish scripture, held a comparison between animals of burden and non-Jews.

“In Israel, death has no dominion over them…With gentiles, it will be like any person-They need to die, but God will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money.

“This is his servant…That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew.”

Yosef further elucidated his ideas about the servitude of gentiles to Jews, asking “why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap; and we will sit like an effendi and eat.”

“That is why gentiles were created.”

The concept of gentiles being infra-human beings or quasi-animals is well-established in Orthodox Judaism.

For example, rabbis affiliated with the Chabad movement, a supremacist but influential Jewish sect, teach openly that at the spiritual level, non-Jews have the status of animals.

Abraham Kook, the religious mentor of the settler movement, was quoted as saying that the difference between a Jew and a gentile was greater and deeper than the difference between humans and animals.

“The difference between a Jewish soul and souls of non-Jews — all of them in all different levels — is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle.”

/.../

In his book, Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years, the late Israeli writer and intellectual Israel Shahak argued that whenever Orthodox rabbis use the word “human,” they normally didn’t refer to all humans, but only to Jews, since non-Jews are not considered humans according to Halacha of Jewish law.


http://alethonews.wordpress.com/201...s-non-jews-are-donkeys-created-to-serve-jews/


Aren't you just looking forward to be enslaved by a Jew?!

 

[elte]

Indeed, that describes the pitfalls of dogmatic religion. Reformed Judaism has been treating me well, though. It has a lot of practitioners around here.

 

[Buddha12]

There are many people who say many things in every religion and society. To think that what this one man has said represents the way every Jew thinks would be a travesty to common sense. It seems that whenever one person or another says anything controversial the media has a real good time trying to create controversy anytime they want. If this one Jew thinks that his views are widely accepted you'd be wrong, if only you would ask the other leaders of the Jewish faith, which I see that you failed to do. There are always going to be people on the fringe of anything that are there to show us how bad things could get if they are followed so we tend to just leave them alone and over time they seem to vanish but resurrected by the media from time to time.

 

[GeoffP]

Mahdudi or Mugwump?

Aren't you just looking forward to be enslaved by a Jew?!

A slight overgeneralization, wouldn't you say? How many followers do these reactionary racists have? Where are they invested? What proportion of the population is sympathetic to their philosophies?

Oh, and the thread title: again, tiny overgeneralization there, Oberst.

 

[James R]

Congratulations, wynn. You've managed to find an extremist nut who happens to be a Jew.

How hard would it be to find a Muslim with extremist views, or a Christian, do you think? How much internet searching would that take?

I wonder what your aim is with this thread. Please tell me it isn't to stir up anti-semitic sentiment.

 

[spidergoat]

This is disgusting, and it's a good example of how moderate religion serves as a gateway for these more literal types.

 

[wynn]

Here's the thing:

1. How can we be sure that the kind of view as presented by the rabbi in the OP
is not what theism is essentially all about?

2. On the grounds of what may we dismiss such a view as "extremist"?

 

[Buddha12]

2. On the grounds of what may we dismiss such a view as "extremist"?

Show us where another prominent Jewish leader said anything like this. If no others have stated such a thing then we can assume that this was a fringe Rabbi who is only trying to become ...somebody.

 

[wynn]

Show us where another prominent Jewish leader said anything like this. If no others have stated such a thing then we can assume that this was a fringe Rabbi who is only trying to become ...somebody.

How would you address the first question -

1. How can we be sure that the kind of view as presented by the rabbi in the OP
is not what theism is essentially all about?

 

[spidergoat]

We would have to see the Torah references he's making.

 

[spidergoat]

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, a former chief rabbi and the spiritual leader of the ultra-Orthodox Shas movement, said on Wednesday that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for U.S. President George W. Bush's support for Israel's Gaza pullout.{source}​

So he's the Jewish Jerry Falwell.

 

[Yazata]

I agree with the others that this rabbi's rant was an expression of Jewish fundamentalism that isn't representative of Judaism as a whole.

But it is kind of ironic how some of Sciforums' louder atheist voices will sometimes highlight the most extreme examples of Christian fundamentalism as if they were somehow representative of Christianity as a whole, or Christianity's inner essence or something.

In this Israeli case, the real significance of this quote is probably that this particular rabbi is reportedly influential in Israel's small Shas party. That party is important out of all proportion to its size, because in Israel's fragmented parliamentary system, Shas often plays a role in forming ruling political coalitions.

Here's the thing:

1. How can we be sure that the kind of view as presented by the rabbi in the OP is not what theism is essentially all about?

Is theism about anything, apart from belief in a theistic-style God?

2. On the grounds of what may we dismiss such a view as "extremist"?

This rabbi's views clearly don't reflect the views of the great majority of Jews, in Israel or in the United States. Most Jews seem to be kind of embarassed by the whole "chosen people" thing.

More religiously traditional Jews often interpret it as the Jews being chosen to be God's priestly nation, meaning that they had a national responsibility to maintain standards of ritual purity similar to that maintained by priests in other Middle Eastern religions, hence the weird Jewish laws. Which suggests that the Jews might collectively have a greater responsibility to serve, as opposed to being served by others.

 

[spidergoat]

...But it is kind of ironic how some of Sciforums' louder atheist voices will sometimes highlight the most extreme examples of Christian fundamentalism as if they were somehow representative of Christianity as a whole, or Christianity's inner essence or something.

Aren't they though? Isn't the only difference between the moderates and the fundamentalists that the moderates don't follow religious law to the letter? In other words, if people really followed the religion, they would all be fundamentalists.

 

[arauca]

A major Jewish religious figure in Israel has likened non-Jews to donkeys and beasts of burden, saying the main reason for their very existence is to serve Jews.

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, spiritual mentor of the religious fundamentalist party, Shas, which represents Middle Eastern Jews, reportedly said during a Sabbath homily earlier this week that “the sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews.”

/.../

“Non-Jews were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world-only to serve the People of Israel,” Yosef said in his weekly Saturday night sermon which was devoted to laws regarding actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on the Sabbath.

Yosef also reportedly said that the lives of non-Jews in Israel are preserved by God in order to prevent losses to Jews.

Yosef, widely considered a prominent Torah sage and authority on the interpretation of Talmud, a basic Jewish scripture, held a comparison between animals of burden and non-Jews.

“In Israel, death has no dominion over them…With gentiles, it will be like any person-They need to die, but God will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money.

“This is his servant…That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew.”

Yosef further elucidated his ideas about the servitude of gentiles to Jews, asking “why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap; and we will sit like an effendi and eat.”

“That is why gentiles were created.”

The concept of gentiles being infra-human beings or quasi-animals is well-established in Orthodox Judaism.

For example, rabbis affiliated with the Chabad movement, a supremacist but influential Jewish sect, teach openly that at the spiritual level, non-Jews have the status of animals.

Abraham Kook, the religious mentor of the settler movement, was quoted as saying that the difference between a Jew and a gentile was greater and deeper than the difference between humans and animals.

“The difference between a Jewish soul and souls of non-Jews — all of them in all different levels — is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle.”

/.../

In his book, Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years, the late Israeli writer and intellectual Israel Shahak argued that whenever Orthodox rabbis use the word “human,” they normally didn’t refer to all humans, but only to Jews, since non-Jews are not considered humans according to Halacha of Jewish law.


http://alethonews.wordpress.com/201...s-non-jews-are-donkeys-created-to-serve-jews/


Aren't you just looking forward to be enslaved by a Jew?!

That rabbi is mishegene

 

[wynn]

Aren't they though? Isn't the only difference between the moderates and the fundamentalists that the moderates don't follow religious law to the letter? In other words, if people really followed the religion, they would all be fundamentalists.

Well, yes. And I'd say this goes for Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus.
If they'd be strict about their theism, we'd all be enslaved or dead.

But it is kind of ironic how some of Sciforums' louder atheist voices will sometimes highlight the most extreme examples of Christian fundamentalism as if they were somehow representative of Christianity as a whole, or Christianity's inner essence or something.

Seeing such religious exclusivism and elitism, I am indeed inclined to consider whether this is what theism is all about.

 

[Emil]

Aren't you just looking forward to be enslaved by a Jew?!

Religion has only ever been a means to control the masses. (So who controls whom? )
Social control through religion

 

[Balerion]

Congratulations, wynn. You've managed to find an extremist nut who happens to be a Jew.

How hard would it be to find a Muslim with extremist views, or a Christian, do you think? How much internet searching would that take?

I wonder what your aim is with this thread. Please tell me it isn't to stir up anti-semitic sentiment.

So let me get this straight: If we are to criticize the Jewish faith for it's view of non-Jews, we are also obligated to point out that other such faiths are at least as bad, if not worse, in terms of fundamentalism? And if we do not immediately couch our comments in this manner, we are going to be accused of antisemitism?

 

[Balerion]

A slight overgeneralization, wouldn't you say? How many followers do these reactionary racists have? Where are they invested? What proportion of the population is sympathetic to their philosophies?

Does it matter? The point is that this is what Judaism can look like in the hands of someone who chooses to read the texts fundamentally, rather than in our more modern and enlightened way of cherry-picking the good parts and omitting the bigotry, racism, and other unpleasant items.

Oh, and the thread title: again, tiny overgeneralization there, Oberst.

Well, yes. I'd have to agree there.

 

[James R]

So let me get this straight: If we are to criticize the Jewish faith for it's view of non-Jews, we are also obligated to point out that other such faiths are at least as bad, if not worse, in terms of fundamentalism? And if we do not immediately couch our comments in this manner, we are going to be accused of antisemitism?

I think you may have missed the point I made. It was to question whether the views of one extremist can fairly be taken to representative of the "Jewish faith".

 

[wynn]

I think you may have missed the point I made. It was to question whether the views of one extremist can fairly be taken to representative of the "Jewish faith".

Again:

On the grounds of what may we dismiss such a view as by the rabbi quoted in the OP as "extremist"?

What if it is his view that is actually representative of Jewish theism (or even theism as a whole?), and all the other more moderate seeming Jews are simply slackers?