Om Tat Sat, Existence is Divine

[Leo Volont]

Om Tat Sat, Existence is Divine

The Higher Religions have two components – the esoteric and the exoteric – the Mystical and the Moral. In a Religiously Monolithic Society every individual is trained in and held to a Moral Standard. These are the Exoteric Religious Teachings. But there are also the Esoteric Mystical Teachings. The essentials of these Teachings stress that we are not our bodies. We are not animals. Om Tat Sat. All of this is God. Existence is Divine Bliss. Duality is an Illusion of the Mind and all things are really One in God. Knowing this is one thing, but feeling it is another. The Mystical Experience is cultivated through various Mystical, Ascetic, and Yogic Schools. One can see similarities but also differences between the various Spiritual Paths; however, each Way is verified by the Saints who proved them by following them to the Supreme Goal.

I have spent a lifetime studying the Mystical Paths of the Higher Religions, and each Mystical Brotherhood has never had a problem acknowledging a Central Cosmic Christ – an extension of God as Life into the Material Universe.

But the Spiritual Realm, though it can be reached by subjective Experience, is real and objective in itself. We can refuse to recognize certain Facts of the Spiritual Realm, but they keep popping back up. Many Mystical Traditions recognize a Transcendent Divine Masculine Principal, and, under that, a Feminine Energy which penetrates the Material Universe. Greek Goddesses. Hindu Goddesses. Buddhist Goddesses. The Blessed Virgin. Dreams and Visions cannot shake Her Reality.

 

[Neildo]

But the Spiritual Realm, though it can be reached by subjective Experience, is real and objective in itself. We can refuse to recognize certain Facts of the Spiritual Realm, but they keep popping back up. Many Mystical Traditions recognize a Transcendent Divine Masculine Principal, and, under that, a Feminine Energy which penetrates the Material Universe. Greek Goddesses. Hindu Goddesses. Buddhist Goddesses. The Blessed Virgin. Dreams and Visions cannot shake Her Reality.

Too bad it's all just tossed up to being myth, despite there being similar stories in various areas of the world in various moments in time.

- N

 

[water]

Was Hare Krishna a woman?

 

[Leo Volont]

Was Hare Krishna a woman?

No, Lord Krishna was a Male Avatar.

But Hinduism has plenty of Female Divine Personages. During the Krishna Avatar there was Radha, a Devotee who by Her intense Love for Krishna became somewhat Divine Herself. You can still go to 'Chants' on the Hindu side of Town where the devotees sing chants to Radha -- treating Her Perfect Devotion as though it is Divine itself.

And then there are the Hindu Goddesses Proper. Kali Durga, Lakshmi, Saraswati. Then there are the Divine Principles of Feminine Character -- Shakti, Maya, Savatri.

 

[Leo Volont]

Too bad it's all just tossed up to being myth, despite there being similar stories in various areas of the world in various moments in time.

- N

It is only a Myth until it is one of your own Dreams or Visions, and then it becomes Subjectively very real.

If a Dream or Vision can effect Character, Personality, and the ultimate Integration of the Self into the Greater Reality, is it still just 'Myth'. Or does anything that has such an objective effect become thereby 'objective'?

 

[Neildo]

It is only a Myth until it is one of your own Dreams or Visions, and then it becomes Subjectively very real.

If a Dream or Vision can effect Character, Personality, and the ultimate Integration of the Self into the Greater Reality, is it still just 'Myth'. Or does anything that has such an objective effect become thereby 'objective'?

Oh, I agree. Something is only a myth until it's experienced for ones self or those without faith to accept other's past or present testimonies, requiring better "proof".

Now I have a question about visions. Are visions only reserved and granted to those that highly worship or believe in God much-like the theory on stigmatas? And since objective and subjective feelings and myths were mentioned, or are visions granted to those with little or bordering faith to help provide better "proof" so those visions better affect someone's character and personality? Since you seem to be quite knowledable about God and various religions and also have visions, I'm curious how you think it all came about you. Are you just one of the many few that has their receptors open to such divine transmissions as opposed to shutting oneself out? What do you feel is the reason? I hope not mere luck.

- N

 

[Leo Volont]

Now I have a question about visions. Are visions only reserved and granted to those that highly worship or believe in God much-like the theory on stigmatas? And since objective and subjective feelings and myths were mentioned, or are visions granted to those with little or bordering faith to help provide better "proof" so those visions better affect someone's character and personality?

I believe that visions are given on the "seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be opened" criteria. And, yes, I have heard mentioned the phenomena of 'beginners luck' regarding Visions -- that Heaven gives an early encouragement to those new on the Path. But this can be followed by what is called "The Long Dark Night of the Soul" where it seems that perseverence is tested. One could say that much time transpires between the Seed and the Fruit.

Since you seem to be quite knowledable about God and various religions and also have visions, I'm curious how you think it all came about you.
- N

I am an old man. I haven't really had many Visions. When my Daughter asked me about my Dreams and Visions and complained that she has so few, I observed to her that at my advanced age, if I had had only one vision every two years all my life, it would still give me more than 30 wonderful stories to tell. It was delightful to see her eyes light up. Life is not as short as many suppose, and if one holds onto the little pieces of Wisdom as they accrue, eventually they come to seem considerable.

When I was young I was a Protestant. But I did not fail to notice that the Protestant Churchs were devoid of the Holy Spirit. But the prejudice taught to me with my mother's milk against the Catholic Church prevented me from then looking there. And so I went toward the East. Now, the Asian Religions are not nearly so bigotted as the Religions of the West and Mid-East, and so one can skip around between Buddhism, Hinduism, Tantra, Yoga, and Sufism at ease. Everyone tells everyone elses stories indiscriminately and so you automatically learn a lot once you go through the Eastern Gates.

Then I met this delightful Hare Krishna Girl and got married. Her family was Catholic and so I met this Priest named Father Tom who gave me a Supernatural Photo of Our Lady of Peace of Medjugorje Hersegovina (a translucent Lady's Face in which you can still see the granite wall behind). I would always do Volunteer Work and then I was young. He was old. I had no idea at the time how appreciative an old man can be when a young man moves heavy sacks of grain around for him. But I believe Father Tom must have prayed for Intercession for me. Over the years that passed little reminders of Our Lady would occur.

Then I became an avid reader of History. I had majored in History in College and so had a solid understanding of methodologies, and caught up on all the reading I hadn't done in my youth. In my study of History I became quite a partisan for the Catholic Church in its role in Civilizing the West. The Prot English enjoy nitpicking the Catholics, but they never consider that without the Catholic church and its Crusades and Inquisitions, there would have been no effectively military and political defense against either the Hun, in one wave, the Mongol in the next wave, or the Turk in the final wave of Barbarian Invasion which inundated every other Civilization in the Old World. The Ascendency of the West was based on the Survival of the West which was a gift of the Catholic Church.

So, with my respect for the Church and with my attachment for the Blessed Virgin, I became Catholic.

But my brain did not fall out. I always hated paul. When Priests tell me I shouldn't I remind them of the Protestant Reformation and that Paul is the Apostle to the Prots. Then I confess and they give me the smallest of all possible penances for hateing Paul. They all hate paul too. If the truth be known, the reason the Church has to bring in queers to make their quota for new Priests, it is because nobody wants to go to Seminary to learn how to apologize for paul.

My latest discipline... I bought a new book on Astral Projection "Astral Dynamics" by Robert Bruce. There was an interesting premise discussed -- that a Picture or a Photo can provide a portal into the Astral World. Well, a few months back I had a momentary Vision of an Our Lady of Grace (Sometimes called Our lady of the Miraculous Medal -- She stands on a snake with an apple in its mouth. She wears a Crown of 12 Stars, and Her arms hang down straight but angled outward while rays of Grace shine out from Her hands). In this Vision, She was atop this Mountain up against a cloudy dark sky. And White Light shined out from between Her throat and Her Chest. So I began to think that maybe that Vision was a presage that I would use a similar Picture I have as a Portal to Her Realm in the Astral World.

You see, you should always have a project.

Once, I did the Gayatri Mantra for an entire year until it finally gave me a Visionary Experience ( the air 20 feet in front of me ripped open and White Light poured out and formed into a Paramahansa Swan and then shot into my head, again and again and again.)

Always have a project. That is the Seeking and the Knocking that Heaven expects of us.

 

[everneo]

Om Tat Sat : what is really existing only is the TRUTH. This is a higher form of Monism.


BTW, your view on the role of Church in containing mongol, muslim on slaught is true. It is also true that Islam contained the evangelisation by the Chruch further east.

As for your personal visions and experiences, we have no method to ascertain them scientifically/objectively.

The objectivism of science is its strongest point and also its limiting factor. Observing known list of parameters excludes unknown phenomena as hallucinations. thats partly sad, but safe method from being cheated, generally. If the visions enhance your life experience why not they be part and parcel of your self. After all none of our personal experience is purely objective.

But beware of illusions. Just ignore them till you can materialize them for all to view. A miracle ? then, science would change its current scope.

 

[Neildo]

Wow, interesting.

Another quick curious question. With all the travelling and such you seem to have done, where do you now reside?

- N

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Om Tat Sat, Existence is Divine

The Higher Religions have two components – the esoteric and the exoteric – the Mystical and the Moral. In a Religiously Monolithic Society every individual is trained in and held to a Moral Standard. These are the Exoteric Religious Teachings. But there are also the Esoteric Mystical Teachings. The essentials of these Teachings stress that we are not our bodies. We are not animals. Om Tat Sat. All of this is God. Existence is Divine Bliss. Duality is an Illusion of the Mind and all things are really One in God. Knowing this is one thing, but feeling it is another. The Mystical Experience is cultivated through various Mystical, Ascetic, and Yogic Schools. One can see similarities but also differences between the various Spiritual Paths; however, each Way is verified by the Saints who proved them by following them to the Supreme Goal.

I have spent a lifetime studying the Mystical Paths of the Higher Religions, and each Mystical Brotherhood has never had a problem acknowledging a Central Cosmic Christ – an extension of God as Life into the Material Universe.

But the Spiritual Realm, though it can be reached by subjective Experience, is real and objective in itself. We can refuse to recognize certain Facts of the Spiritual Realm, but they keep popping back up. Many Mystical Traditions recognize a Transcendent Divine Masculine Principal, and, under that, a Feminine Energy which penetrates the Material Universe. Greek Goddesses. Hindu Goddesses. Buddhist Goddesses. The Blessed Virgin. Dreams and Visions cannot shake Her Reality.

Leo,

I bet that I can reproduce a completely mystical experience for you and
all you would have to do is sit in a chair and relax. What would happen
is that the part of your brain that allows you to distinguish between 'self'
and 'other' would encounter significantly reduced functionality (don't worry
there is no pain / electrocution involved ). The end result is that you would
have a wonderfully mystical experience (possibly with full blown hallucination)
and you would experiencing being 'one with the universe' while completely
concious and maintaining coherent rational thought. What do you think?

 

[Neildo]

Darn, he always gets all the fun propositions. Haha, I'd be up for it. That'd be a fun reward for having to travel 360 miles up north.

- N

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Darn, he always gets all the fun propositions. Haha, I'd be up for it. That'd be a fun reward for having to travel 360 miles up north.

- N

Yeah, but Leo's a special case . I think that if Leo is as infuential in
his Geography as he states then perhaps helping him understand the
difference between reality and fantasy may have a nice little chian effect.

It is a fun little experience though and 100% reproducable.

 

[Leo Volont]

Leo,

I bet that I can reproduce a completely mystical experience for you and
all you would have to do is sit in a chair and relax. What would happen
is that the part of your brain that allows you to distinguish between 'self'
and 'other' would encounter significantly reduced functionality (don't worry
there is no pain / electrocution involved ). The end result is that you would
have a wonderfully mystical experience (possibly with full blown hallucination)
and you would experiencing being 'one with the universe' while completely
concious and maintaining coherent rational thought. What do you think?

Bottle it and sell it. You'll make a fortune.

Indeed, people who can even be suspected of delivering on such promises can typically do very well for themselves. First, you write a book full of cliches you've seen a hundred times. Then you go on a tour to promote your book -- a Lecture Tour, in which you charge a nominal fee at the door. But in the Lecture you sell your books and you enroll people for your Weekend Seminars which you REALLY charge an arm and a leg for.

But, anyway, as suggestable as I am, and for all the Gurus I have visited and for all the years (actual years if you added up all the minutes) I have spent in meditation, I've never had a hallucination as enticing as the one that you describe.

So, if you could deliver, you'd be quite special, huh?

 

[Leo Volont]

Wow, interesting.

Another quick curious question. With all the travelling and such you seem to have done, where do you now reside?

- N

I'd rather not have my Bishop know about me.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Bottle it and sell it. You'll make a fortune.

Indeed, people who can even be suspected of delivering on such promises can typically do very well for themselves. First, you write a book full of cliches you've seen a hundred times. Then you go on a tour to promote your book -- a Lecture Tour, in which you charge a nominal fee at the door. But in the Lecture you sell your books and you enroll people for your Weekend Seminars which you REALLY charge an arm and a leg for.

But, anyway, as suggestable as I am, and for all the Gurus I have visited and for all the years (actual years if you added up all the minutes) I have spent in meditation, I've never had a hallucination as enticing as the one that you describe.

So, if you could deliver, you'd be quite special, huh?

Leo,

Do I detect a note of skepticism? I am asserting fact and offering proof.
Perhaps my offer is mis-understood. No books, no cliches, no lectures, no
seminars, no fees, no drugs, no hypnotizing, no subliminal messages, no
special effects,... do I need to go on? I am opening a door to a room that has
a special chair... all ya' gotta do is sit and enjoy a profound 'mystical'
experience; after which we'll discuss how it's nothing more than a fantasy
induced with a little science. Heck, I'm a generous kind of guy... I'll even chip
in for the air fare. What do you say?

 

[Leo Volont]

Dear Crunchy,

Yes, I am skeptical of your magic chair.

You would have marketed it by now.

The huge New Age Movement along with the Orientalist Movements, combined with the Charismatic Movements of both the Protestant and Catholic Churches have been clamoring all these last several hundered years for your Miracle Chair.

And no one has provided it.

So I have my doubts that you are sitting on one.

Which is not to say that some Gurus don't have their honest assets. The Gurus from the Tradition of Kirpal Singh (Surat Shabd Yoga), and the Siddha Yoga People under the prettiest Guru in the World (Gurumayi Chidvilasananda) have a very powerful and blissful 'Shaktipat'.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Neildo: Another quick curious question. With all the travelling and such you seem to have done, where do you now reside?
*************
M*W: I see white sand deserts and rolling mountains. In a distance, I hear enchanted flutes, but Leo is not playing them. In the background, I hear what sounds like Russian. He has come to this place on the Highway to Hell, and now he can't leave. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Dear Crunchy,

Yes, I am skeptical of your magic chair.

You would have marketed it by now.

The huge New Age Movement along with the Orientalist Movements, combined with the Charismatic Movements of both the Protestant and Catholic Churches have been clamoring all these last several hundered years for your Miracle Chair.

And no one has provided it.

So I have my doubts that you are sitting on one.

Which is not to say that some Gurus don't have their honest assets. The Gurus from the Tradition of Kirpal Singh (Surat Shabd Yoga), and the Siddha Yoga People under the prettiest Guru in the World (Gurumayi Chidvilasananda) have a very powerful and blissful 'Shaktipat'.

Leo,

It's not 'magic'. Just regular run of the mill science. If I had invented the
contraption then perhaps I may have patented it, marketed it, etc... but
I am not the inventor.

I had no idea that there was so much religious demand for such a chair;
however, I would assert that the chair I am referring to is more of a threat
than something they would want.

So anyhow, once again here I am offering the experience to you. Heck,
if it does not work then I'll pay for your entire trip and make a statement
on Sciforums that I am a charleton. I'll even sign a legal affidavid and
contract if you feel that would help.

So, how bout it dear ol' chap?

 

[Leo Volont]

Leo,

I had no idea that there was so much religious demand for such a chair;
however, I would assert that the chair I am referring to is more of a threat
than something they would want.

You need to begin thinking straight. In the Sixties and Seventies when the hippies thought they could find God with an LSD Pill, did they think THAT was a threat?

If your magical-scientific Chair can induce a Mystical Experience, then, yes, you would sell more of them then hullahoops, poogosticks, and yoyos all put together.

You don't have the patent. Who does? Where can I buy one?

 

[Neildo]

I'd rather not have my Bishop know about me.

What, am I your Bishop now or does your Bishop lurk on these forums? You can private message me if you want, but even if you don't want to it's no problem as it was just curiosity, unless again, I *am* your bishop.

- N