Oklahoma - Police kill 5 year-old child

What will bring justice? (click all that apply)

  • Civil award to family

    Votes: 10 43.5%
  • Prison time for pepretrator

    Votes: 11 47.8%
  • Nothing will bring justice

    Votes: 9 39.1%
  • Nothing should happen to the perpetrator - it was an honest mistake

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 17.4%

  • Total voters
    23

Tiassa

Let us not launch the boat ...
Valued Senior Member
Okay, I think I'm ready to try to grapple with this one:

Austin Haley was fishing with his grandfather, Jack Tracy, when Tracy said he heard a shot and saw something hit the water just a few feet in front of the boat dock where he was standing.

Moments later, a second shot hit Austin in the head ....

.... A Noble police officer who had responded to a report of a snake in a tree apparently fired the deadly shot while trying to kill the snake on Friday, City Manager Bob Wade said ....

.... Tracy thought someone must be trying to kill him and his grandson, so he put the child on the back of a 4-wheeler and drove to his daughter's house about 200 yards away.

"Then two officers came out of the brush over there," he told The Oklahoman. "They didn't tell us they were the ones who had been shooting or that they had shot him. They didn't admit a doggone thing" ....

.... "I'm not saying the cop shot him on purpose," he said. "But let me tell you -- if I had a kid and put him in this car and didn't put him in a car seat and he got killed on the way to town, they'd charge me with murder ... and what this cop did is a lot worse than that."
(CNN.com)​

Look, incidents like this don't do anyone any good. Certainly not the dead. I'll have to look up negligence and manslaughter statutes in Oklahoma, but something needs to happen here. While a civil suit for wrongful death certainly seems warranted, it's not enough. I'm not saying the police set out to kill or hurt anyone. Far from it. But it's a freaking gun. I understand there's a difference between the alleged "last resort" of killing someone, and whacking a snake. But the convenience of snake-whacking should not obscure the question of what happens when you miss the target. Now, maybe Oklahoma doesn't have good wildlife services, and that would be an issue to consider. But yeah, if you're the cop that gets this call, it would seem you're stuck with it for a while. The question on that point is whether wildlife services were not available, or whether it seemed too inconvenient to wait for them. Additionally, and this is just me, and I am not a fan of guns and thus don't fire the things, it seems to me that if you're going to be shooting at a snake, a shotgun might be the better idea. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe police in Noble, Oklahoma don't have shotguns. But, yeah, shredding the hell out of something that scares you so badly to shoot at it seems the better idea when the target is long and narrow like a snake. Playing Deadeye Dick seems a bad call on that one.

The list of excuses we can make for the police is long, but nothing should diminish the fact that a five year-old boy is dead, and apparently of police gunfire. This is a tragedy at the least, and seems like an obscenity.

My first thought was to draw and quarter the officer. My second was that D&Q is too harsh, and that branding him with the letter "M" (for "moron") would suffice. So I walked away from it for a while because that wasn't useful. Blood vengeance gains nothing, there's the Eighth Amendment, &c., &c. But in the end the only important thing is that there is a dead child, and frankly, I might be able to care less how badly the officer feels. Feeling badly about killing a little boy just won't fix the situation.

I will certainly care less if the perpetrator walks on this one. I would probably be fine with flaying the skin from his still-living bones, at least in the "savages will as savages do" context, but we are supposed to be a civilized society. Thus, pay off the family and send the perpetrator up for a decent clip . People need to know they can trust the gun-toting professionals, else Hell will rise and Satan stride to and fro about the Earth with happy heart.
 
Last edited:
The perpertrator, will have to live with his conscience and since it was apparently a mistake, that should theoretically be punishment enough.
 
perhaps if America didnt have a fascination with guns then this wouldnt happen!! even the police can carry guns!!
 
Of course charges need to be filed. Cops are trained to know better. They have animal control, but he decided to be a cowboy and take it out like a good ol boy. Idiot. I certainly hope he lives with it the rest of his life.
 
Either:
Prison time for pepretrator
or:
Nothing will bring justice

It depends on the investigation.
 
I would probably be fine with flaying the skin from his still-living bones, at least in the "savages will as savages do" context, but we are supposed to be a civilized society. Thus, pay off the family and send the perpetrator up for a decent clip.

Do you feel the same way about any other type of accidental death? Car accidents? Construction accidents? Etc?

And, Tiassa, it seems to me that I remember you not even being that harsh with people who were convicted of INTENTIONAL death ....murder. Is that right? And here, with a lousy accident, you want to flay the man?

People need to know they can trust the gun-toting professionals, ....

Trust? Is that to say that the police should never be human and make mistakes?

Shit happens. And sometimes bridges even fall down, too.

Baron Max
 
How is this an accident?

If you are trained to use a gun you should be trained to use a gun safely. What happened here could have been prevented by 'common sense'. Also, a Gun should only be fired as a very last resort and this does not apply here as I am sure other methods could have been used.

Also, the police did not admit to it being their fault at the time of the incident which must have caused additional panic.

This is not an accident this is a mistake of the very worst type and it should not have happened.

If you are given a License to carry a gun you also carry a heavy duty of responsibility and if you mess this up to this degree then you should encounter a serious pentaly.
 
How is this an accident?

If you are trained to use a gun you should be trained to use a gun safely. What happened here could have been prevented by 'common sense'. Also, a Gun should only be fired as a very last resort and this does not apply here as I am sure other methods could have been used.

Also, the police did not admit to it being their fault at the time of the incident which must have caused additional panic.

This is not an accident this is a mistake of the very worst type and it should not have happened.

If you are given a License to carry a gun you also carry a heavy duty of responsibility and if you mess this up to this degree then you should encounter a serious pentaly.


It is negligent homicide, but an accident all the same

Noble police officers responded to a call at 7:42 p.m. Friday that a snake was hanging from a bird house, in a yard that abuts a wooded field near a pond where two boys were fishing with their grandfather and great-grandfather.

The officers fired two shots at the snake, police Chief Ben Daves said.

“They were waiting on the snake to quit wiggling when they heard the cries from the field,” he said.

One of the bullets from the 40-caliber gun struck Austin Haley in the head.

http://www.sapulpadailyherald.com/statenews/cnhinsall_story_219094323.html
 
How is this an accident?

If you are trained to use a gun you should be trained to use a gun safely. What happened here could have been prevented by 'common sense'.

Well, it's the same with a car accident, ain't it? We're trained to drive properly and safely, yet there's a gazillion accidents every damned day. And many of those accidents are "easily prevented" ....like the redlight runners hitting a car and killing people. Accidents.

You just like to focus on it involving a gun ...probably so you can use it to "prove" that guns should be banned or something equally ignorant. I and many people in the world carry guns every day, yet none of us have ever had "accidents" with them.

Baron Max
 
It was an accident.

Would you say that if your five year old had a bullet in his dome?

---

Fucking retarded cop. Guns should be a last resort, and only used for absolute emergencies. I mean, COME ON. Was there any need for two police officers to fire at a SNAKE? I am smart enough with animals to grab a snake with my hands, and I'd expect the officer to at least use his billy stick before his gun.
 
Would you say that if your five year old had a bullet in his dome?

---

Fucking retarded cop. Guns should be a last resort, and only used for absolute emergencies. I mean, COME ON. Was there any need for two police officers to fire at a SNAKE? I am smart enough with animals to grab a snake with my hands, and I'd expect the officer to at least use his billy stick before his gun.

I'd probably take the cop apart, but that doesn't change the fact that he was shooting at a birdhouse and the pond was beyond a wooded field. I feel as strongly about firearms and excessive force (its no secret on this forum) but in this case, it was an accident. He could have used a stick, but anyone who has a gun in hand and has to deal with a snake is not going to be looking for sticks.
 
He could have used a stick, but anyone who has a gun in hand and has to deal with a snake is not going to be looking for sticks.

I didn't say he should have "searched" for sticks. I said he should have used the billy stick he had with him. I don't know the minute details of the shooting, but if it was from a distance, that's even stupider. If, in fact, the snake was right in front of the officer, he should have used his stick. If the snake was far away, fuck it. His senseless mistake cost the kid's life. Letting him get away scotch free is unfair to the people who are charged with murder for accidents and mistakes.
 
I didn't say he should have "searched" for sticks. I said he should have used the billy stick he had with him. I don't know the minute details of the shooting, but if it was from a distance, that's even stupider. If, in fact, the snake was right in front of the officer, he should have used his stick. If the snake was far away, fuck it. His senseless mistake cost the kid's life. Letting him get away scotch free is unfair to the people who are charged with murder for accidents and mistakes.

I doubt he will be let off scot free. And I don't think he should. I think its weird that people call cops to get rid of snakes, don't they have animal control for this sort of thing?
 
Well, it's the same with a car accident, ain't it? We're trained to drive properly and safely, yet there's a gazillion accidents every damned day. And many of those accidents are "easily prevented" ....like the redlight runners hitting a car and killing people. Accidents.
I believe that in such a sitation you would be looking at a charge of manslaughter at best.
 
Can't an average human outrun a snake? The officer(s) were firing up at a tree. Could neither of them realise a potential ricochet effect off a tree? Did no-one have a cellphone to call animal control?

Both officers should be dismissed and the officer whose gun it was should be ordered to bear the entirety of civil award (it doesn't matter who fired it, the officer responsible for the weapon is responsible for lending it willfully to anyone else).

The unfortunate aspect is that the child paid for an extremely stupid mistake, and there's no recourse that can compensate.

(I actually find it almost as disturbing that CNN has a video link labelled "watch the tearful grandfather say the bullet should have hit him". How morbid is that?)
 
I doubt he will be let off scot free. And I don't think he should. I think its weird that people call cops to get rid of snakes, don't they have animal control for this sort of thing?

I doubt he'll get life in prison, or anything similar to what non-police officers get for these types of things. I realize it was a mistake, which is why the punishment should be smaller. Still, it was a very senseless and avoidable mistake which left someone dead, which can't be ignored.

Yeah, those people should have a local animal control they could have called. I wonder what type of snake it was...if it was a grass snake or something harmless like that, I'd spit in the face of the cops, and whoever called them.
 
Remove him from the police force and charge him with "third degree" murder. The second officer should be charged similarly, or at least as an accomplice. Two police officers were there and neither one thought of anything better than using a firearm to get the snake? HOW did they obtain the privilege of being civil protectors in the first place?!
 
Back
Top