Novosibirsk Rape Case Poll

[pjdude1219]

I've said previously, that advising someone to be careful is not rape supporting behavior. It’s just not. There are rapists. They do exist but a victim never creates them.

In this case, though, they weren't punishing her for being drunk. They punished her because she had a sexual encounter with one of his friends. It was a revenge rape. They punished her for being a slut. Only men can be slutty. Although, in spite of what you may think, our natural state is not passivity. Women, too, are sexually aggressive.

A lot of men are overly emotional, never learning to master their emotions. They idolize what they can’t control. They idolize anger and aggression, but most of them use it haphazardly. They only see it as a weakness when it's expressed by a female. Men are angry, females are crazy.

When people are unable to achieve their goals, they use anger to get what they want . They throw childish temper tantrums. Frustration turns to anger, anger to rage. They use their physical strength to get what they want. They belly up to the reward system like little rats. What is it, the male orgasm, 22 seconds of pleasure…at the most?

If superiority was based on strength alone, we’d still be bowing down to the dung beetle.

if all you were doing is advising being careful you'd have a point. but what you do is decide what is and isn't ok for woman to do.

 

[Trooper]

if all you were doing is advising being careful you'd have a point. but what you do is decide what is and isn't ok for woman to do.

No. It's the losers that can't win, who can’t play the game, can’t master sexual persuasion. The males who idealize aggression dictate what she can and can’t do. So, think about that the next you high five your buddy for disrespecting a woman or when you're too afraid to speak out against them.

So, like other animals, we adapt. We pay attention to our surroundings. We look out for each other. We avoid male packs. We learn to fight. We build alliances with other strong males.

So, you’re nice guy. You’re intelligent, witty, charming. You respect women. You work hard, and yet, she chose that big obnoxious idiot. Gee, I wonder why?

Our preferences for power and wealth diminish with equality. Equality allows us to choose more compatible mates.

 

[pjdude1219]

No. It's the losers that can't win, who can’t play the game, can’t master sexual persuasion. The males who idealize aggression dictate what she can and can’t do. So, think about that the next you high five your buddy for disrespecting a woman or when you're too afraid to speak out against them.

So, like other animals, we adapt. We pay attention to our surroundings. We look out for each other. We avoid male packs. We learn to fight. We build alliances with other strong males.

So, you’re nice guy. You’re intelligent, witty, charming. You respect women. You work hard, and yet, she chose that big obnoxious idiot. Gee, I wonder why?

Our preferences for power and wealth diminish with equality. Equality allows us to choose more compatible mates.

yes there are assholes who blame women for their rapes for not following the "rules" and your their ally.

 

[Trooper]

yes there are assholes who blame women for their rapes for not following the "rules" and your their ally.

You're biased opinion is completely unfounded and inaccurate. You give feminism a bad name.

 

[The Marquis]

Bam! Nicely put, Tiassa.
Your natural state is a rapist, Maquis? That’s your justification? You want to control another human being but you can’t even control yourself, too funny. Maybe we should be in charge of the country then, eh?
Sexual coercion does not allow females to choose the males they want to mate with, which are usually males of higher quality, compatible, and/or have good genes that will increase their offspring’s survival and fitness.
If you guys don’t step up to the plate, we’ll have to adapt.

Yes, well. The only thing I can really suggest, Trooper, is that you go back, re read what was said, and see if you can figure out what happened there.

I'd like to believe that most people here are aware that Tiassa, while quite ably representing what would probably be the majority, is rather simple and one-dimensional when it comes to any particular aptitude for deeper thought. Unfortunately, what I'd like to believe and reality are, in all probability, somewhat at odds.
To put it more simply, I'm not feeling particularly "bammed" at all. I'm actually looking around at this point to see who came to that conclusion, and who did not. Which is yet another reason I do so enjoy coming here on occasion - but unfortunately, those who did not are probably the silent readers who rarely say anything at all.
I feel I should add at this point that I did not say silent "majority".
And also that I had expected far better from you, based only (of course) upon what I have read from you so far.

Moreover:
"Sexual coercion does not allow females to choose the males they want to mate with, which are usually males of higher quality, compatible, and/or have good genes that will increase their offspring’s survival and fitness."
No, it doesn't. I do wonder, though, how much thought you have put into how females "usually" define what you would deem to be "of higher quality". You have, after all, not done so yourself.


...And yes, I should be in control of "the country". There are few who would like it much, to begin with. And frankly, there would be far more to do than I would have the patience for... or the lifespan.
Alas, Utopia is but a subjective fantasy. It is very difficult to breathe sometimes.

 

[Trooper]

Oh, dear! How right you are, ol' chap.

Well, what you know, a nihilist exceeded my expectations.

I wonder, was it poor comprehension due to narcotics (sprained ankle), gender assumption, or gender mistake?

Hmm…I’m leaning towards the latter.

Either way, I do apologize.

BTW, it was a minor miscalculation of cortisol levels, that's all.

 

[The Marquis]

Nihilism, Trooper, is only a platform from which one might become whatever he wishes to be.
It is, in my opinion, the only philosophy which provides the necessary clean slate from which one might begin clearing the dross.

Too many assume that such a platform can only lead to despair. And too many who truly understand it succumb to just that.
You will feel it.
You do not surrender to it.

So many artists, yet so many failed artworks.

 

[Trooper]

Nihilism, Trooper, is only a platform from which one might become whatever he wishes to be.
It is, in my opinion, the only philosophy which provides the necessary clean slate from which one might begin clearing the dross.

Too many assume that such a platform can only lead to despair. And too many who truly understand it succumb to just that.
You will feel it.
You do not surrender to it.

So many artists, yet so many failed artworks.

Yes, of course.
I agree.

Goodnight, Marquis.

 

[Tiassa]

Why Does Russia Need Handicap Strokes?

However my main question is to the OP, why the focus is on a rape case in Russia?

Because this is the one our topic poster chose to ask about. Apparently, that person needed some clarification about how the idea of rape works, but we're not certain since we can't get any more clarification from the topic poster, such as what makes the question remotely complicated.

Why not Poland, USA, UK for example? Or do you think such cases occur in USA and Poland less frequently? I feel that you have a double agenda on disseminating a public opinion of Russia in a bad view.

I think you need to can your Russosupremacist attitudes. Not everything in the world comes back to the terrible joke the government of Russia happens to be these days.

If you look around this site, we have discussed rapes in the United States, the United Kingdom, or in Australia, and several other nations, as well; we've tried isolating the phenomenon within the context of the "civilized world" (i.e., industrialized and developing economies). I suppose in light of the breadth of discussions we have tried to foster about the rape phenomenon and the cultural attitudes contributing to its outcome, the question to you would be, "Why is Russia exempt?"

Seriously, why is discussion of what happens in Russia off-limits? Why should it be? What, in your eyes, is wrong with Russia, YourEyes, that we should have to regard what happens there with kid gloves? What is it about Russia that requires the extra-gentle touch? Why, in your opinion, is "Russia" so unable to weather any such discussion? What, in your opinion, makes "Russia" so pathetically weak that you would waste time on nationalistic balbutive?

Think of it like golf, for a moment: What's Russia's handicap? How many strokes do we owe Russia and Russians at the outset?

Let us know, put that figure out front. We can at least attempt reasonable accommodation of whatever you describe as Russia's special needs.

 

[Kittamaru]

Post Truncated.

Indeed... and I think her boyfriend, most of all, needs punished for not stopping this from happening, and even [apparently] taking part in it.

 

[pjdude1219]

You're biased opinion is completely unfounded and inaccurate. You give feminism a bad name.

just because you lack the emotional maturity to handle the criticism of your beliefs doesn't make me either biased or give feminism a bad name. you've consistently failed to place blame on rapists rather than their victims. and when called on it you get defensive because you know what your doing is wrong. want to stop being called out on protecting rapists stop doing it. its not difficult.

here is a song to help you understand

 

[Trooper]

just because you lack the emotional maturity to handle the criticism of your beliefs doesn't make me either biased or give feminism a bad name. you've consistently failed to place blame on rapists rather than their victims. and when called on it you get defensive because you know what your doing is wrong. want to stop being called out on protecting rapists stop doing it. its not difficult.

Nope. That’s a false dilemma. There can be a happy medium.

First of all, the lyrics from your song are completely inaccurate.

"You shouldn't abstain from rape just 'cause you think that I want you to. You shouldn't rape 'cause rape is a fucked up thing to do. Pretty obvious, just don't fucking rape people, please, didn't think I had to write that one down for you."

The bible was not silent on rape. God was a rape advocate. He ordered men to rape. The bible condones and justifies rape.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it, victim blaming is always wrong, but insisting that rape prevention is victim blaming is also wrong.

I’m sorry but I refuse to listen to a few overzealous feminists claiming that crime prevention is politically incorrect. I’ll continue to advise my loved ones to be careful. How could I not? I love them, but then again, I don’t feel the need to be right at their expense. A big fat "I told you so" incorporates hindsight bias. I know that I’m not always right. My loved ones have ignored my cautionary advice plenty of times and came out unscathed.

 

[Kittamaru]

The bible was not silent on rape. God was a rape advocate. He ordered men to rape. The bible condones and justifies rape.

Proof, or redact, plzkthnx

 

[Trooper]

Proof, or redact, plzkthnx

You're kidding me, right?

Deuteronomy 20:10-14
2 Samuel 12:11-14
Judges 5:30
Exodus 21:7-11
Zechariah 14:1-2
Numbers 31:7-18

Let me know if you need more.

 

[Trooper]

I do wonder, though, how much thought you have put into how females "usually" define what you would deem to be "of higher quality". You have, after all, not done so yourself.

He will not harm for money, for money will rule him. He will not harm for sex, for sex will rule him. He rules himself. A higher quality male is not the master of his soul. He has no soul. He is the master of his senses.

 

[GeoffP]

The basic answer is yes, they do. You might also ask if men's primary reason for existence is to fuck women, and the answer would be much the same.

As to the rest of it, any particular individual's answer in this poll is going to be guided solely by their own particular morality.
Is that what you were trying to say? Or are you presenting a case for absolute morality by means of disingenuousness?

Procreation is the name of the game.
How we go about it is how we attempt to place standards on who has the right to do so.

I disagree.

Males and females of any species exist because of the advantages derived from sexual recombination. That is distinct from their existence as men and women. The latter labels comprise considerably more than sheer sexual directive. The existence of the forebrain dictates that human existence has the behavioural and social space for more than breeding alone, although presumably such space might be foreshortened in the case of extreme intellectual or social degenerates; one could presumably name a range of other SF members as examples. In any event, even the reduction of the fitness of paired genders to their reproductive fecundity completely misses the issues of survivorship and experience that occur over the entire lifespan; therein are 'men' and 'women'.

I could swear I've written this before somewhere.

 

[Trooper]

I disagree.

Males and females of any species exist because of the advantages derived from sexual recombination. That is distinct from their existence as men and women. The latter labels comprise considerably more than sheer sexual directive. The existence of the forebrain dictates that human existence has the behavioural and social space for more than breeding alone, although presumably such space might be foreshortened in the case of extreme intellectual or social degenerates; one could presumably name a range of other SF members as examples. In any event, even the reduction of the fitness of paired genders to their reproductive fecundity completely misses the issues of survivorship and experience that occur over the entire lifespan; therein are 'men' and 'women'.

I could swear I've written this before somewhere.

But Geoff, even if it enhances pair bonding or strengthens group cohesion, everything still works in a way to increase the fitness of the offspring, right?

So, how then, is procreation not the name of the game?

 

[pjdude1219]

Nope. That’s a false dilemma. There can be a happy medium.

you misunderstand me. there is a happy middleground. you just nowhere near it in your ideology.

First of all, the lyrics from your song are completely inaccurate.

"You shouldn't abstain from rape just 'cause you think that I want you to. You shouldn't rape 'cause rape is a fucked up thing to do. Pretty obvious, just don't fucking rape people, please, didn't think I had to write that one down for you."

The bible was not silent on rape. God was a rape advocate. He ordered men to rape. The bible condones and justifies rape.

to quote harry potter though it give you more credit than you deserve " once again you put your keen and piercing intellect to the task and get wrong conclusion" your missing the point in an egregious fashion. he is the point You shouldn't rape 'cause rape is a fucked up thing to do. Pretty obvious, just don't fucking rape people which given the cover you provide rapists makes me think you just don't get it.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it, victim blaming is always wrong,

Than why the fuck are you doing it. If you know its wrong why are you doing it.

but insisting that rape prevention is victim blaming is also wrong.

rape prevention isn't wrong. always asking about why someone was raped rather than focus on their attacker like your want to do is. when its more important that the victim didn't follow your rules than focusing on the asshole who attacked them than yes your blaming the victim.

I’m sorry but I refuse to listen to a few overzealous feminists claiming that crime prevention is politically incorrect.

typical of your kind you get called out for your hateful rhetoric and try play the victim. your not a victim, your just a terrible human being preying on real victims that you couldn't give a fuck about.

I’ll continue to advise my loved ones to be careful. How could I not? I love them, but then again, I don’t feel the need to be right at their expense.

to bad you feel that way about strangers.

A big fat "I told you so" incorporates hindsight bias. I know that I’m not always right.

but that is exactly how your treating rape victims.

My loved ones have ignored my cautionary advice plenty of times and came out unscathed.

I know this hard for you to understand with your victim blaming ways but people have the right to not be harmed

 

[Trooper]

I knew that they’d get slammed for this video. Ah, the hunter and his prey. Most men don’t stalk their prey to this extent but they do reduce us to the sum of our parts. It reminded me of a few things that Nietzsche said, though.

Two things the real man wants: danger and play. That’s why he wants woman as the most dangerous plaything.

A man should be raised for war and a woman for the recreation of the warrior: everything else is folly.

When I view my daughter I enter a relationship, deal with a person. When I view the prostitute I abandon human relationship, dismember her, deal with parts: breasts, buttocks, belly, etc. They look up at us from magazines. We drape fantasies over women, making then into something they are not. We strain towards unattainable closeness. And even if, as the widest improbability, we should find a woman who had become the fantasy…even then the sought for closeness would not be possible. For the woman who really matched the fantasy would be empty. Nothing there.

I don’t think that women do this, or at least not to the same extent.

And the quote from this article, again Nietzsche.

The “women must attract/men must be attracted” social scenario sets up a situation that encourages too many male predators.

What does woman hate most?—Thus spoke the iron to the magnet: I hate you the most because you attract, but are not strong enough to attract me to you.

 

[billvon]

The basic answer is yes, they do. You might also ask if men's primary reason for existence is to fuck women, and the answer would be much the same. . . . Procreation is the name of the game.

Procreation != "being fucked by men." If it were, our lives/societies/instincts would be very different.