'No evidence' for extraterrestrials, says White House,....

[The Esotericist]

Incidentally, I think this is one of the top reasons we don't have contact and globally acknowledged awareness of cosmic citizenship;

No other interstellar species wants to deal with our internal power struggles, our need to dominate and control our own species will to power and freedom of thought, and the literal obfuscation of reality of the individual members by the mass establishment by the elite members of society for material wealth and power. It is these same elite members that keep access to high technology away from the masses and make sure the reality of UFO's/ET's are denied at all costs and are swatted away like flies as they are a threat to the dominant paradigm and their cushy place at the top of the control paradigm/pyramid.

 

[phlogistician]

... several planes flying a low altitude overhead of pheonix wouldn't be heard.

What altitude reading do you have, and how did you ascertain the reading?

 

[phlogistician]

In fact, you've made a number of laughable theories that only an incompetent scientist could make. Suggesting there was no photo's to foo fighters..

Show me a photo please.

But anyway, you miss the point. I shall re-iterate. We should see MORE pictures now than reported during WWII, because there are more people flying with cameras. That was the point, but it went clean over your head.

 

[phlogistician]

Here's my theory... I think when you began debating with me, you were expecting a typical crank.

If you think Roswell was more than a balloon and eavesdropping equipment, yes, you are a crank.

 

[Arioch]

The only conspiracy I see here is one of cranks attempting to annoy the rest of us to death.

 

[bgreen4554]

Doesn't inter-stellar travel in relation to the age of the universe defy laws of physics when talking about extra terrestrials on this planet? I'm sure due to the size of the universe that there are other beings out there. But isn't the size of the universe and the distance needed to travel the point here? They cant get to us.

 

[Arioch]

@bgreen --

UFO nuts are a lot like christians in that neither have been known to let science get in the way of their fun.

 

[phlogistician]

Doesn't inter-stellar travel in relation to the age of the universe defy laws of physics when talking about extra terrestrials on this planet? I'm sure due to the size of the universe that there are other beings out there. But isn't the size of the universe and the distance needed to travel the point here? They cant get to us.

Exactly. Size is the crucial thing, it means there are a lot of stars and planets, and the odds of them hosting life start to add up, BUT it means they are a long way away from each other, so the chances of meeting intelligent life from another solar system pretty slim. I think SETI would detect some signal, before a craft managed to get here also.

 

[Reiku]

Perhaps. . .

Even if all of what you have said is true, and even if those on the other side of the issue knew this to be true? Perhaps the crowds they run with wouldn't speak above a whisper about it. Fool. You've just told the entire community exactly where you stand, that you aren't in any of those societies, groups or secret clubs.

Perhaps phlog is in a covert interest group and he doesn't actually believe anything he is typing. But then, I assure you, he would ridicule the very notion.

For I have long ago in this thread posted some factual evidence from credible government agencies, I believe you have as well . . . I'm sure he knows the truth, he is quite intelligent. It's all about plausible deniability see. It's all about where you stand, not about what the truth actually is.

But then, in the final analysis, perhaps you could be or I could be. I don't believe so though. People who tell the truth usually have no interest in being in a covert interest group. If they were in an interest group, they would tell the truth, wouldn't they? They generally have no bones about listing their affiliations unless they believe they are in danger from the covert interest groups.

This is actually very close to how I feel about this as well.

He is certainly intelligent, or atleast, I'd hate to think I've waisted superlfuous amounts of time trying to explain this stuff to him. And other people. They run about calling us ''cranks'' and god knows what else, but the fact I have stayed by and argued the case with what you yourself have called ''factual evidence'' just shows the magnitude of my magnanimity.

Whatever this interest group is, I hope it is serving him well. If it is not exacly a group, it leaves one option open I am afraid. He's serving his own interest, which I guess, we are all guilty to some extent that we are biased to our own opinions.

 

[Reiku]

The only conspiracy I see here is one of cranks attempting to annoy the rest of us to death.

You've hardly contributed anything. In fact, you've already demonstrated to me personally you are unwilling to even research the facts for yourself.

This kind of behaviour just tells me you aren't willing to put anything into the debate which could be considered constructive.

 

[Reiku]

Exactly. Size is the crucial thing, it means there are a lot of stars and planets, and the odds of them hosting life start to add up, BUT it means they are a long way away from each other, so the chances of meeting intelligent life from another solar system pretty slim. I think SETI would detect some signal, before a craft managed to get here also.

Slim? I don't know about that one. Some might consider it slim.

I think it's slim to think no alien civilization hasn't had this chance. Our universe should be teeming with life. No doubt, it has been from possibly an early age.

 

[Reiku]

If you think Roswell was more than a balloon and eavesdropping equipment, yes, you are a crank.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. So anyone who thinks something beyond what you think happened are necesserily cranks, just serves what I said above concerning yourself.

Anyone outside your criteria of thought may as well be cranks in your eye's. Though, more people will tend to agree with that all the evidence points to a more sinister story with Roswell. Too much evidence to the contrary to your own depleted idea's.

 

[Ophiolite]

Thank you for clearing that up for me. So anyone who thinks something beyond what you think happened are necesserily cranks, just serves what I said above concerning yourself.

Anyone outside your criteria of thought may as well be cranks in your eye's. Though, more people will tend to agree with that all the evidence points to a more sinister story with Roswell. Too much evidence to the contrary to your own depleted idea's.

Friggin hell! It pisses me right off when you intellectually stunted, self indulgent anal cavities assume that we haven't been there, done that, got the frigging T-shirt and the autographs. I looked into this shit decades ago - it doesn't wash. Fool yourself if you wish. Imagine a great global conspiracy. Feel important because you think you are smart enough to recognise the truth. Avoid facing the fact that you are actually a poorly educated, gullible, below average IQ, excuse for a thinker.

Just grow up or go away. I'm happy with either. Just don't use of bandwidth with any more self indulgent stupidity.

Dear moderators: sometimes you just have to call a spade what it actually is.

 

[Reiku]

Friggin hell! It pisses me right off when you intellectually stunted, self indulgent anal cavities assume that we haven't been there, done that, got the frigging T-shirt and the autographs. I looked into this shit decades ago - it doesn't wash. Fool yourself if you wish. Imagine a great global conspiracy. Feel important because you think you are smart enough to recognise the truth. Avoid facing the fact that you are actually a poorly educated, gullible, below average IQ, excuse for a thinker.

Just grow up or go away. I'm happy with either. Just don't use of bandwidth with any more self indulgent stupidity.

Dear moderators: sometimes you just have to call a spade what it actually is.

How old are you, 19?

And intellectually-stunned? Sir, (boy?) I could challenge you on physics which would blow your head off. I'd be carefull who you unscientifically call intellectually stunned.

Besides, I am reporting your post. If non of us can get away with this kind of foul behaviour, I don't see why you should.

 

[Reiku]

@bgreen --

UFO nuts are a lot like christians in that neither have been known to let science get in the way of their fun.

I deal with physics every day...

...I don't ever recall seeing you in the physics subforum. And what science are you aware of, concerning these facts?

 

[Arioch]

@Mister --

I deal with physics every day...

So does a mechanical engineer(or, are you a mechanical engineer?), that doesn't mean that I'd turn to them when contemplating what it would take to travel faster than the speed of light.

...I don't ever recall seeing you in the physics subforum

And....so what? Does the fact that my main area of interest is biology(specifically ethology and embryology) disqualify me from pointing out flaws in your arguments if I see them(and I haven't been the only one, I've just been the most active one)? No, it doesn't. This is fallacious logic. "I've never seen this guy post in the physics forum therefore he must not know as much about physics as I do ergo I can ignore anything this guy says about physics if I disagree with it".

That's pretty low, even for a UFO nut.

And what science are you aware of, concerning these facts?

Well let's start with how much energy it would take to push a given mass beyond the speed of light. I know that, so far as we know, it's impossible to gain access to that much energy. What say you?

 

[Reiku]

@Mister --



So does a mechanical engineer(or, are you a mechanical engineer?), that doesn't mean that I'd turn to them when contemplating what it would take to travel faster than the speed of light.

(1)


And....so what? Does the fact that my main area of interest is biology(specifically ethology and embryology) disqualify me from pointing out flaws in your arguments if I see them(and I haven't been the only one, I've just been the most active one)? No, it doesn't. This is fallacious logic. "I've never seen this guy post in the physics forum therefore he must not know as much about physics as I do ergo I can ignore anything this guy says about physics if I disagree with it".

That's pretty low, even for a UFO nut.

(2)

Well let's start with how much energy it would take to push a given mass beyond the speed of light. I know that, so far as we know, it's impossible to gain access to that much energy. What say you? (3)

(1) - What makes you think that speeds faster than light would be required? There are in fact many physical solutions to the field equations of Einstein that could represent intergalactic SpaceTime travel. Knowing physics, I can say this. Not knowing physics, tells me why you haven't.

(2) - You are the one who is saying to me I have a feeble grasp of science and now you have admitted your area is in fact Biology; even if I explained other physical solutions, could you understand them? You say it is low of me, yet my response to you was from my qouting of your post saying:

''UFO nuts are a lot like christians in that neither have been known to let science get in the way of their fun. ''

I think it's quite clear and cogent who was being low to begin with. You seem very hypocritical and disingenuous.

(3) - Conventionally-speaking, the energy required would far exceed a spacecrafts capabilities. Of course, this is based on conventional wisdom. We haven't exactly presumed any of these debates yet would infer on a new source of energy, or manipulating energy so that you could create something akin to an Alcubierre (spelled right?) Drive.

 

[Arioch]

@Mister --

In fact, you've already demonstrated to me personally you are unwilling to even research the facts for yourself.

Now you've crossed the line from being a defensive if innocent enthusiast into character assassination. Not only have I looked at every single thing you've asked me to here(Guy Hottel memorandum doesn't even concern Roswell), but I've pointed out where your very links contradict your arguments. This isn't "ignoring the evidence", it's investigating what you dispense as "evidence" and flinging it right back in your face because while it might look like evidence from a distance, up close you can tell that it's a pile of dingo's kidneys.

I think it's slim to think no alien civilization hasn't had this chance.

What criteria are you basing this evaluation on, wishful thinking?

Our universe should be teeming with life.

Maybe, that would depend on just what it takes for abiogenesis to occur. The most we can say right now is that we know that it happened once, therefore it is possible, and that given the size of the universe it's likely that there's some kind of life out there somewhere.

No doubt, it has been from possibly an early age.

This is in doubt. According to Hawking and many other great physicists out there it should have taken roughly eight billion years or so for the universe to reach a state conducive to life, with the heavy elements being "baked" in the stars and then waiting for enough of those stars to explode and release those elements in sufficient number that they clump together. That means that any other civilizations that may be out there would have, at most, a billion year head start, likely much less than that if we're not the ones with a head start.

We also know that while abiogenesis is possible and that the size of the universe makes it likely that it has occurred elsewhere, it is still an exceedingly rare event.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. So anyone who thinks something beyond what you think happened are necesserily cranks, just serves what I said above concerning yourself.

Yeah, I have a phone call for you. It's a Mr. Kettle, he wants to talk to you about the color black, do you want to take this in the other room?

There are in fact many physical solutions to the field equations of Einstein that could represent intergalactic SpaceTime travel. Knowing physics, I can say this.

Then why don't we bring in some of the other physicists to comment on this, because I'm certainly not going to take your word for it. Not with your well documented habit of dishonesty.

(2) - You are the one who is saying to me I have a feeble grasp of science and now you have admitted your area is in fact Biology; even if I explained other physical solutions, could you understand them? You say it is low of me, yet my response to you was from my qouting of your post saying:

''UFO nuts are a lot like christians in that neither have been known to let science get in the way of their fun. ''

I think it's quite clear and cogent who was being low to begin with.

I never attempted to dismiss your arguments because you're a UFO nut, I only ever dismissed them because of a lack of evidence and or faulty reasoning and I always explained why I was dismissing them. You've not done any of those things once in this entire thread, you've always just accused people of ignoring the evidence while ignoring the fact that you haven't presented any evidence!!!

You've been posting in this thread for eight vagina swilling pages and have yet to produce one piece of evidence despite multiple demands for you to support your arguments with evidence, all the while lambasting anyone who disagrees with you as "trolls" or even accusing them of ignoring evidence when they've been talking about your "evidence" all along. How, exactly, do you intend to square your actions here with the innocent victim persona you're obviously trying to project?

You seem very hypocritical and disingenuous.

Coming from you that's a laugh.

 

[Reiku]

Arioch?

 

[Reiku]

Thought you weren't going to reply there. Good.