NEWS: Gang found guilty of sex with schoolgirls charges

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Originally posted by Squid Vicious
Look to your dark side static... everyone has one.

Are you going to try to deny that a tiny part of the anger you feel towards these guys is because they were getting a nice piece of girl and you weren't? The "how" they were getting becomes a side issue. It's a natural reaction... speaking from an evolutionary point of view, you'd be abnormal NOT feeling any jealousy.

So, when you get pissed off at people like these it's for two different reasons... firstly, because rapists are scum, and secondly on a more subconscious (?) basis, because they got some and you didn't.
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First Squid, a 14 or 15 year old girl is NOT a "nice piece of ass" as you put it, they're kids. And it's not jealousy I feel toward these rapists, but totally anger toward people you would abuse girls in this way.:mad:

Only those who are weak and pitiful, would take advantage of 14-15 year old girls.
 
OK, you lot, take some reading lessons. I clearly stated I thought rapists were scum.

If you aren't going to be bothered reading the entire post for what it is instead of seizing on one part of it to make some stupid remark, then go ahead. Those with a little more intelligence will be able to discern what I said, instead of fitting it into their own little mindset.

You'd make good TV reporters... fail to understand a statement and then take part of it out of context to illustrate a farcical point of view. Be my guest. The reason I'm on this board is to understand human behaviour, and really it makes it very difficult when faced with fools who won't take the time to comprehend any part of it.
 
Originally posted by Squid Vicious
OK, you lot, take some reading lessons. I clearly stated I thought rapists were scum.

If you aren't going to be bothered reading the entire post for what it is instead of seizing on one part of it to make some stupid remark, then go ahead. Those with a little more intelligence will be able to discern what I said, instead of fitting it into their own little mindset.

You'd make good TV reporters... fail to understand a statement and then take part of it out of context to illustrate a farcical point of view. Be my guest. The reason I'm on this board is to understand human behaviour, and really it makes it very difficult when faced with fools who won't take the time to comprehend any part of it.
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I hope this isn't directed at me... the anger in my previous post was toward rapists, not you. Maybe you should reread it and not be so sensitive, no one said you were condoning rape.

Once again, there isn't even a tiny part of me or any other guy I know, who would be jealous of a rapist (the whole concept of it is disturbing). And no, subconciously I don't envy them(I much prefer my 21 year old girlfriend).
 
Squid - you make some very good points. Perhaps some of us might view a rapist as someone who "cheats" and obtains something we want by going outside of societies rules.

BTW - 14 and 15 year old girls in MOST societies in MOST of recorded time were/are not considered children -- they were of marrying age.

There seems to be an unmentioned social aspect to these rapes. Apparently, a large percentage of these rapists are the children of Muslim immigrants. Perhaps they feel any woman who dresses the way Western women do is a "whore" who deserves no better than to be raped.

I think another reason women find rape so disturbing (in addition to all the obvious ones) is that it takes away the major source of their power -- the ability to bestow or withhold sexual favors.

Squid - now watch someone read the above and assume I'm in favor of rape. :rolleyes:
 
postaok:
Okay, you're in favor of rape.

(Joking)

I think another reason women find rape so disturbing (in addition to all the obvious ones) is that it takes away the major source of their power -- the ability to bestow or withhold sexual favors.
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Good point, I agree.

(Y'all can't flame me for this, because I'm a chick and we can say such things. Viva la double standard)

Squid:
Good points, well made. Would you consider the virulence of the reactions to be a symptom of denial?
 
Originally posted by postoak
Perhaps some of us might view a rapist as someone who "cheats" and obtains something we want by going outside of societies rules.
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Yep, agreed. I hadn't taken the first thought out that far, but I think you're probably right.

Xev... absolutely, yes.
 
Perhaps some of us might view a rapist as someone who "cheats" and obtains something we want by going outside of societies rules.
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I disagree. I think it's more what Anthony said "if it was my sister etc"

A bit of history here (translated: run for the exits, Xev's about to deconstruct rape. FLEEE!:p)

When Dinah was "defiled" - this is occasionally translated to "raped", but it really makes no difference in the culture we speak of whether she consented - by Shechem, Dinah's brothers and father destroy Shechem's entire city.

Genesis 34:31
And they said, Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?

A woman is a chattel. And like all property, of highest value when unused. This is why the old English penalty for raping a virgin was higher than for raping a widow or suchlike.

Of course, one can always get out of it by marrying her.

Exodus 22:16
And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
22:17
If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

When the Mongols invaded China, the inevitable raped women were forced by their families to commit suicide in order to protect the family's honour.

Which is all prolouge to saying that I suspect that the anger triggered by rape is partly because one's property is being damaged.

Edit to add:

Oh shit. Anthony, I am soo fucking sorry. I know you don't think this way - I'm just playing with a pit of deconstructionism.

*Hits self*

Stupid Xev! Stupid!
 
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Xev...

That would definately apply if the victims were known to us, but in this case we're talking about something which happened in another country. So "damaged goods" (erk) doesn't really apply here. Unless you're talking about a social holdover which is no longer relevant but still present? You may have dug up yet another reason...

I would agree that Asguards thinking is the most prevalent cause of anger, but I don't think it's the ONLY reason.

Postoak and I were talking about a possible reason for male anger directed at rapists, ie the jealousy caused by them getting something which we also want but wouldn't normally get due to social constraints.

I trying to think of an example for females.. ok try this.
Let's say you and a friend are at a party, and there's a guy there you both want very badly, except you only have one night to do so because he's jetting off to Zwaliland tomorrow. You spend all night trying in a socially acceptable way, ie chatting up, flirting, etc. While youre off getting more drinks, she drags him upstairs and strips in front of him, and he naturally forgets all about you. she wins, but not playing by the rules.

(a crap example, but it will have to serve.)

So while she's now branded a slut, you don't get the guy. You might even contribute to the talk the next day as a means of revenge. In this case, the level of anger is nowhere near what a guy might feel towards a rapist, but the root cause is the same... jealousy, and anger towards her because she "cheated".
 
Squid:
Aye, you're right. However, sometimes I think that in our quest to deconstruct motives, we forget simple things, like sympathy for somone who has been hurt.

As for my hypothesis, I think you've damaged it as a reason but I bet it holds a bit of water still.

We are conditioned to react with anger towards thieves. Not that we don't glorify them on occasion, but we do react with anger towards them.

In both of our scenerios, the rapist is a sort of thief.
 
Squid: Thanks. It's personal.

Here's the rest of the poem:
http://members.aol.com/toprate/Undercurrents.html

In opposition to Archbishop Cyril,
exquisite and erudite pagan Hypatia
sided with Alexandrian prefect, Orestes,
so irate Christians dragged her to a church
and for that touch of piety
tore her limb from limb
then burned the remnants in the street -
an early though effective form of censorship.
Nowadays, in our more moderate age,
except for bland faced men vying to pick her up,
Hypatia would abide an island
pounded remorselessly by normative advertisement,
and incrementally knowing to doubt herself,
slink into a dumb oblivion.
 
I think that those gangsters are just lucky they didn't try anything like that up where I live. Most of the girls I know could have kicked their sorry rumps.:D :eek: Really. They scare me.
 
Just So you know

In reply to this thread.. I am very surprised.
I happen to be the 14 year old victim, however I am now 20 years old.
I dont think anyone of you know what I went through that day...
I did not deserve what happend to me, or provoke it.
I do not deserve to be treated like an animal, and rape isnt acceptable.
All you hear is that it was a straight forword rape case.. But none of you were there..when the room got raided, and I had a hammer against my head, with the threat to beat me to death. You have no idea how it ruined my relationships, Family, My trust, and how it effected my life.
Do you know that I didnt leave the house until a year after? Or that I had to go through councilling? How i lost my faith in God, got my very own criminal record, and tried to end my own life... I guess not... I guess the sick bastard who thinks its somewhat clever to go around with the sick thought of "having a piece of ass" has no idea..I wonder how he would feel if he was gang raped by a bunch of black men. Or maybe being the sicko that he is..he may enjoy it..
Im not a perfect person, but i have never gone out my way to hurt anyone, and never will..
To some of the more sensible members who posted many thanks.
 
I'm going to close this thread down before certain posters jump on here with the intent of being rude and obscene amongst other things. I wish I could say that Sciforums doesn't have this level of people accessing, unfortunately it does which is why us Moderators attempt to try and deal with them (No matter how unfairly they claim they are treated).

They never seem to understand though that their whining over being moderated is so insignificant in comparison to someone's life being put through the 'mincer'.

I hope such events don't haunt you for ever and that such people that would respond (if given the chance) could just grow up.
 
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