Making statements like that will cost him whatever political capital he might have gained from the prisoner scandal. You gotta love those fanatics.
News from the Colonies - America's War in Iraq
- Thread starter goofyfish
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Hyperbole is commonplace in Arab political rhetoric. We can hear "Death to America", and endless fantasies demeaning toward Americans the more we listen. There will be a cornucopia of phrases to take out of this peculiar Arab rhetorical context. Very often what sounds like the radicalism is just the time-honored Arab political style of venting collective emotion, which even prominent moderates are compelled by political culture to engage in from time to time, lest they be perceived as bland and uncaring in the Arab thoughtstream. European speech is commonly made more appealing with crafty understatement, while Mideastern tastes often respond to more intense verbal spice.
This may be a flaw from a Western perspective, from which even widely respected Arab journalists and leaders can come off as sophomoric and reactionary, but it remains intrinsic nonetheless to Arab discourse. I know that Tiassa has not done so, but there is often deliberate exploitation of this cultural difference, such as when Israeli pundits quite familiar with this concept export selected Arab rhetoric to American audiences in order to deliberately apply a stigma of depravity and intransigence to their Arab opponents. Even unintentionally, typical hyperbole like "keep a female GI as your slave" can cause a lot of misunderstanding. These miscues make me wince, just as when GIs generically call their detainees "Ali Babas".
It is necessary and beneficial that more of the world, and especially Americans, take heed of Arab media- but for understanding to increase, an ear for this significant cultural difference is an important prerequisite. I'm not trying to get on your case T, it's just an opportunity here to note one of the sources of so much misunderstanding between the Mideast and America. Arabs have rhetorical habits that can easily offend Western ears, just as we have many cultural habits that are easily ofensive to Arabs. Wherever we effectively interface, these differences have to be put into a fitting perspective if they are not to impede greater cooperation and coexistence.
This may be a flaw from a Western perspective, from which even widely respected Arab journalists and leaders can come off as sophomoric and reactionary, but it remains intrinsic nonetheless to Arab discourse. I know that Tiassa has not done so, but there is often deliberate exploitation of this cultural difference, such as when Israeli pundits quite familiar with this concept export selected Arab rhetoric to American audiences in order to deliberately apply a stigma of depravity and intransigence to their Arab opponents. Even unintentionally, typical hyperbole like "keep a female GI as your slave" can cause a lot of misunderstanding. These miscues make me wince, just as when GIs generically call their detainees "Ali Babas".
It is necessary and beneficial that more of the world, and especially Americans, take heed of Arab media- but for understanding to increase, an ear for this significant cultural difference is an important prerequisite. I'm not trying to get on your case T, it's just an opportunity here to note one of the sources of so much misunderstanding between the Mideast and America. Arabs have rhetorical habits that can easily offend Western ears, just as we have many cultural habits that are easily ofensive to Arabs. Wherever we effectively interface, these differences have to be put into a fitting perspective if they are not to impede greater cooperation and coexistence.
Danish soldiers has been in a 2 hour firefight near Al Qurnah, no danish soldier where kill but a Lituanian was wounded when 1 of his bullet exploded, Prior to the ambush local iraqie had warned to Danish patrol of a impending ambush.
1 Iraqie was capture and it is said he says he belongs to the Moqtada Sadrs milits.
In other new, supplemental to tissas.
Heavy fighting new Basra, when 100s of iraqie attack Brithsh forces, 2 iraqie and 7 soldier belived dead, this is thougth to be related to imam Moqtada Sadr speach the day before.
only 9 dead, seems a bit low.
1 Iraqie was capture and it is said he says he belongs to the Moqtada Sadrs milits.
In other new, supplemental to tissas.
Heavy fighting new Basra, when 100s of iraqie attack Brithsh forces, 2 iraqie and 7 soldier belived dead, this is thougth to be related to imam Moqtada Sadr speach the day before.
only 9 dead, seems a bit low.
Tiassa.
Not like you to make assumptions.
It appears increasingly likely that Mr Sadr has the backing of the IGA as well as a significant chunk of the populace.
It may not be possible to stop him.
Well it is said that 98% of humans are not designed to be killers.
Dee Cee
Fields of the Brave? (Come November)
Er ... well ....
Oh, we can always stop him. Whether or not what he has created can be stopped is, I admit, its own question. It doesn't seem wise--inasmuch as we attempt to consider sympathetically the conventional wisdom of the Bush administration--to let this man complicate the US general election in November.
If he's still a problem in November, the people will blame Bush for not dealing with him. If Bush has him whacked in June (no later than July 1) there's time for other scandals to pile on (thereby diverting attention from an Israeli-style assassination or Clintonesque missile strike) and by the time the voters get around to the problem of what comes in al-Sadr's wake, Bush might even be able to mount a pro-PNAC campaign push to remind folks of how violent and turbulent the Middle East is, and how America needs to tame it.
The administration cannot afford such a campaign liability come the end of July, when the Democrats get together in Boston. The last thing Bush wants to give them is even the tiniest handle to jiggle, else they might manage to flush him early and leave the war in the crapper, in lame-duck status not only from November, but from August until January.
Of course, all this says more about my opinion of the Bush administration than anything else.
Er ... well ....
Oh, we can always stop him. Whether or not what he has created can be stopped is, I admit, its own question. It doesn't seem wise--inasmuch as we attempt to consider sympathetically the conventional wisdom of the Bush administration--to let this man complicate the US general election in November.
If he's still a problem in November, the people will blame Bush for not dealing with him. If Bush has him whacked in June (no later than July 1) there's time for other scandals to pile on (thereby diverting attention from an Israeli-style assassination or Clintonesque missile strike) and by the time the voters get around to the problem of what comes in al-Sadr's wake, Bush might even be able to mount a pro-PNAC campaign push to remind folks of how violent and turbulent the Middle East is, and how America needs to tame it.
The administration cannot afford such a campaign liability come the end of July, when the Democrats get together in Boston. The last thing Bush wants to give them is even the tiniest handle to jiggle, else they might manage to flush him early and leave the war in the crapper, in lame-duck status not only from November, but from August until January.
Of course, all this says more about my opinion of the Bush administration than anything else.
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What the hell? Technocrats? Was that the plan? How would that work? The guy with the best computer is in charge? Talk about experimental politics.
Dawa down!
IGC President slain in bomb attack
Dawa Party leader took rotating office May 1
Izzedine Salim, a leader of the Iraqi Dawa Party and the President of the Iraq Governing Council, has been killed by a suicide explosion in Baghdad.
Salim is the second IGC member to be assassinated. In September, gunmen killed Akila Hashimi.
Comment:
What strikes me is the witness' words:
A telling phrase, isn't it?
Salim had advocated the continued operation of the IGC; he disagreed with UN envoy Brahimi's technocrat-plan, and sought a continued role for the unpopular, appointed interim body after the June 30 handover.
On the other hand, and the British can tell the Americans all about this, as I understand it, the legend of Michael Collins and the 20th-century history of the Irish Republican Army includes the days of walking up to a politician on the street and shooting him point-blank in order to have your say.
And we all know how that went. Of course, Westerners were mortified when they woke up one morning and realized that the later troubles in Northern Ireland had killed something like 3,500 people in thirty years.
Thirty-five hundred? Hell, that's a fairly easy number by twenty-first century standards. You can damn near hit that number with a suicide bombing.
It's the thirty-year part that worries me more. And we can't expect Daniel Day Lewis in the movie version. Except maybe in a peripheral role as a Member of Parliament.
____________________
• Wilson, Scott and Sewell Chan. "Iraqi Governing Council President Killed in Attack." Washington Post, May 17, 2004. See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32354-2004May17.html
IGC President slain in bomb attack
Dawa Party leader took rotating office May 1
Izzedine Salim, a leader of the Iraqi Dawa Party and the President of the Iraq Governing Council, has been killed by a suicide explosion in Baghdad.
Salim is the second IGC member to be assassinated. In September, gunmen killed Akila Hashimi.
Comment:
What strikes me is the witness' words:
"Even the Governing Council members are Iraqis too."
A telling phrase, isn't it?
Salim had advocated the continued operation of the IGC; he disagreed with UN envoy Brahimi's technocrat-plan, and sought a continued role for the unpopular, appointed interim body after the June 30 handover.
On the other hand, and the British can tell the Americans all about this, as I understand it, the legend of Michael Collins and the 20th-century history of the Irish Republican Army includes the days of walking up to a politician on the street and shooting him point-blank in order to have your say.
And we all know how that went. Of course, Westerners were mortified when they woke up one morning and realized that the later troubles in Northern Ireland had killed something like 3,500 people in thirty years.
Thirty-five hundred? Hell, that's a fairly easy number by twenty-first century standards. You can damn near hit that number with a suicide bombing.
It's the thirty-year part that worries me more. And we can't expect Daniel Day Lewis in the movie version. Except maybe in a peripheral role as a Member of Parliament.
____________________
• Wilson, Scott and Sewell Chan. "Iraqi Governing Council President Killed in Attack." Washington Post, May 17, 2004. See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32354-2004May17.html
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"Sarin Nerve Gas Bomb Explodes in Iraq"
Everyone's reporting it now.
But they continue to fail to mention that al-Zarqawi was known to have laboratories being used to manufacture chemical and that Pentagon wanted to take them out, but would have ruined the phoney justifications for the war.
You see folks it was all worth it. Saddam had a couple pounds of gas somewhere, and he was going to blow it up in your basement. So 200 billion dollars, thousand and thousands of deaths, destroying a country, torture, and everything else was all worth it. Now off to the next war, pay no more mind to Iraq, that's so yesterday. Pay no attention to the torture. Pay no attention to the complicity of the White House. Pay no attention to the public emasculation of Colin Powell by "Emily." Pay no attention to the plunging stock market. Pay no attention to the killing of the Iraqi Council member.
Keep your eye on the sarin bomb. See how shiny it is. You are relaxed. Relaaaax.
:m: Peace.
Everyone's reporting it now.
But they continue to fail to mention that al-Zarqawi was known to have laboratories being used to manufacture chemical and that Pentagon wanted to take them out, but would have ruined the phoney justifications for the war.
You see folks it was all worth it. Saddam had a couple pounds of gas somewhere, and he was going to blow it up in your basement. So 200 billion dollars, thousand and thousands of deaths, destroying a country, torture, and everything else was all worth it. Now off to the next war, pay no more mind to Iraq, that's so yesterday. Pay no attention to the torture. Pay no attention to the complicity of the White House. Pay no attention to the public emasculation of Colin Powell by "Emily." Pay no attention to the plunging stock market. Pay no attention to the killing of the Iraqi Council member.
Keep your eye on the sarin bomb. See how shiny it is. You are relaxed. Relaaaax.
:m: Peace.
What slays me right now about the Sarin thing is that apparently they found mustard gas several days ago, and what the situation suggests is that some idiot somewhere has accidentally come across what investigators couldn't find.
Even if it's just the odd shell lying around that nobody in twelve years figured out was there ....
And the Miklaszewski article ... downright creepy. On the other hand, we should probably treat the "undercutting" of the case for war with the same skepticism people seem to express at the idea of breaching contract in order to preserve tax breaks.
Even if it's just the odd shell lying around that nobody in twelve years figured out was there ....
And the Miklaszewski article ... downright creepy. On the other hand, we should probably treat the "undercutting" of the case for war with the same skepticism people seem to express at the idea of breaching contract in order to preserve tax breaks.
What?! Another #@*%ing wedding?! (Or, "Love in a War Zone.")
Reports: 40 dead after U.S. hits Iraqi wedding party
Yet another wedding party has been crashed by American troops, this time to the tune of forty dead.
The details are sketchy; the BBC article is difficult to understand:
But the wedding party was in Ramadi, and the returned fire near Qaim. Whether a reporting error or just a crappy response by U.S. officials I don't know, but it really does seen a non-sequitur.
One witness told al-Arabiya that the U.S. dropped "more than 100 bombs on us," with the effect of leveling the village. Iraqi police have told the Associated Press that between 42 and 45 people were killed.
Comment:
Inside sources tell me that the Bush administration is officially worried that the string of wedding-related incidents might damage the President's election bid by undermining his family-values platform.
Nonetheless, I would advise my Muslim neighbors to just stop having weddings. We have jokes about marriage being the death sentence, but it appears that being Muslim gets you on the fast-track.
_____________________
• BBC News. "Iraqi wedding party hit by US." May 19, 2004. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3730423.stm
Reports: 40 dead after U.S. hits Iraqi wedding party
Yet another wedding party has been crashed by American troops, this time to the tune of forty dead.
The details are sketchy; the BBC article is difficult to understand:
But the wedding party was in Ramadi, and the returned fire near Qaim. Whether a reporting error or just a crappy response by U.S. officials I don't know, but it really does seen a non-sequitur.
One witness told al-Arabiya that the U.S. dropped "more than 100 bombs on us," with the effect of leveling the village. Iraqi police have told the Associated Press that between 42 and 45 people were killed.
Comment:
Inside sources tell me that the Bush administration is officially worried that the string of wedding-related incidents might damage the President's election bid by undermining his family-values platform.
Nonetheless, I would advise my Muslim neighbors to just stop having weddings. We have jokes about marriage being the death sentence, but it appears that being Muslim gets you on the fast-track.
_____________________
• BBC News. "Iraqi wedding party hit by US." May 19, 2004. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3730423.stm
Perhaps it was a Gay-Muslim wedding?
The last wedding we crashed we justified in the same manner - hostile gunfire. The truth, it turned out, was that the most technologically sophisticated army in the history of the world was not able to distinguish between hostile fire and the traditional celebratory gunfire which takes place at Afghan weddings. Do they not mention during military training that this is not a big video game and therefore you should consider whether someone is an enemy or not before you blow them away?
:m: It bogggles the mind.
The last wedding we crashed we justified in the same manner - hostile gunfire. The truth, it turned out, was that the most technologically sophisticated army in the history of the world was not able to distinguish between hostile fire and the traditional celebratory gunfire which takes place at Afghan weddings. Do they not mention during military training that this is not a big video game and therefore you should consider whether someone is an enemy or not before you blow them away?
:m: It bogggles the mind.
Signs of progress: "Fore!"
Kabul Golf Club hopes to get back into the swing of things
A welcome sign of progress from Afghanistan; Mike Collet-White reports for Reuters from the Kabul Golf Club.
I hope this dispels all rumors of a liberal media conspiracy. See? Good news does come home from the war fronts.
____________________
• Collett-White, Mike. "No Grass, No Greens, But Golf Is Back in Kabul." Reuters, May 24, 2004. See http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=5237268
Kabul Golf Club hopes to get back into the swing of things
A welcome sign of progress from Afghanistan; Mike Collet-White reports for Reuters from the Kabul Golf Club.
I hope this dispels all rumors of a liberal media conspiracy. See? Good news does come home from the war fronts.
____________________
• Collett-White, Mike. "No Grass, No Greens, But Golf Is Back in Kabul." Reuters, May 24, 2004. See http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=5237268
Maybe the PGA tour will make it part of their regular courses. 
Add the element of danger to the game. Probably increase the ratings. Hell, I might even watch golf if there's the possibility of watching Tiger Woods getting hit by sniper fire.
Add the element of danger to the game. Probably increase the ratings. Hell, I might even watch golf if there's the possibility of watching Tiger Woods getting hit by sniper fire.
The calm voice: "And Tiger makes his way into the bunker--man, you really can't tell it from the fairway, can you? And, oh--my goodness. It would appear that an IED hidden in the bunker has gone off. Tiger seems to have lost a leg and will be going into shock soon. This really makes that short game a challenge ...."
Just say, "No."
Conscience or wisdom?
al-Shahristani says, "No, thank you."
The smartest man in Iraq? "Scientist al-Shahristani was jailed under Saddam
Hussein's regime — reportedly for refusing to help build a nuclear weapon."
(USA Today via AP/60 Minutes)
The Associated Press reports this morning that Hussain al-Shahristani, the apparent leading candidate for the post of Prime Minister of Iraq, has advised UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi that he does not want the job. "Mr. Shahristani could serve his country well in a number of positions in government . . . Mr. Shahrestani (sic), however, has himself clarified tht he would prefer to serve his country in other ways," said a statement by Brahimi's office.
Comment:
al-Shahristani is the latest in a historical truism. Sometimes--perhaps in general--the people most fit to lead a political body are also smart enough to not want to do the job.
Einstein turned down the presidency of Israel; it wasn't where he could do the most for the world.
And it's difficult to find fault with the reason, but let's face it--in addition to this being a decision of conscience, as it is represented by Brahimi, one is compelled to wonder if perhaps al-Shahristani is simply addicted to the idea of being alive.
And nor will I fault him for that. To give one's life for a cause can certainly be noble, but who pretends that the interim government of Iraq will be particularly safe and secure? If al-Shahristani is intended by any circumstance of God or nature to lead Iraq, he will get his chance. But taking an appointed executive position in a theater stricken by bad blood and warfare, perhaps al-Shahristani feels he can do more for Iraq if he's not blown up by dissidents, insurgents, guerillas, or terrorists.
I suppose the question is, even by a perception of the situation from afar and through the press--with the IGC being cut down, contractors being beheaded, clerics resisting the occupation, and bombs bombs bombs by the scores, would you want to be the occupation-installed Prime Minister responsible for satisfying the bloodthirsty and also the insatiable?
_____________________
• Associated Press. "Ex-Iraqi exile turns down government post." May 26, 2004. See http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-26-iraq-politics_x.htm
Conscience or wisdom?
al-Shahristani says, "No, thank you."
The smartest man in Iraq? "Scientist al-Shahristani was jailed under Saddam
Hussein's regime — reportedly for refusing to help build a nuclear weapon."
(USA Today via AP/60 Minutes)
The Associated Press reports this morning that Hussain al-Shahristani, the apparent leading candidate for the post of Prime Minister of Iraq, has advised UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi that he does not want the job. "Mr. Shahristani could serve his country well in a number of positions in government . . . Mr. Shahrestani (sic), however, has himself clarified tht he would prefer to serve his country in other ways," said a statement by Brahimi's office.
Comment:
al-Shahristani is the latest in a historical truism. Sometimes--perhaps in general--the people most fit to lead a political body are also smart enough to not want to do the job.
Einstein turned down the presidency of Israel; it wasn't where he could do the most for the world.
And it's difficult to find fault with the reason, but let's face it--in addition to this being a decision of conscience, as it is represented by Brahimi, one is compelled to wonder if perhaps al-Shahristani is simply addicted to the idea of being alive.
And nor will I fault him for that. To give one's life for a cause can certainly be noble, but who pretends that the interim government of Iraq will be particularly safe and secure? If al-Shahristani is intended by any circumstance of God or nature to lead Iraq, he will get his chance. But taking an appointed executive position in a theater stricken by bad blood and warfare, perhaps al-Shahristani feels he can do more for Iraq if he's not blown up by dissidents, insurgents, guerillas, or terrorists.
I suppose the question is, even by a perception of the situation from afar and through the press--with the IGC being cut down, contractors being beheaded, clerics resisting the occupation, and bombs bombs bombs by the scores, would you want to be the occupation-installed Prime Minister responsible for satisfying the bloodthirsty and also the insatiable?
_____________________
• Associated Press. "Ex-Iraqi exile turns down government post." May 26, 2004. See http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-26-iraq-politics_x.htm
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Well I can think of at least one person.
"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in to their country and trying to destabilise thier country and we will help them get rid of these killers"
GW Bush, Al Arabiya TV this week.
I shit you not he really did say that
Dee Cee
Foggy indeed
Unfortunately true. The one thing that sticks with me right now, though, is how we manage to blow up the people and miss the gear. We apparently killed 41 people at an alleged wedding party, yet enough weapons and "dormitory-style" accommodations were left over after a village was destroyed to make the American case. And it seems to me--though this detail may be flipped around in the coverage--that the US showed that evidence only after the "wedding video" turned up.
In the meantime, the practical problem is well-expressed by Kamran Shafi, and also by the headline of a Chicago Tribune story carried at Texas A&M.
Unfortunately true. The one thing that sticks with me right now, though, is how we manage to blow up the people and miss the gear. We apparently killed 41 people at an alleged wedding party, yet enough weapons and "dormitory-style" accommodations were left over after a village was destroyed to make the American case. And it seems to me--though this detail may be flipped around in the coverage--that the US showed that evidence only after the "wedding video" turned up.
In the meantime, the practical problem is well-expressed by Kamran Shafi, and also by the headline of a Chicago Tribune story carried at Texas A&M.
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Hmm. Yet another member of the IGC gets hit.
So why hit her?
Perhaps she's a bad negotiator maybe a random ambush or just marked by another group of armed militia. There's plenty of those after all.
Whatever. Just thought you all might like to know.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3755537.stm
Oh I take it back. She's not such a bad negotiator after all.
Lets hope all parties stay true to their word.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3752393.stm
A little ray of hope?
Dee Cee
Funny thing is.
And they say Islam has no respect for women. Sounds like she's been given a fair splash of responsibility.
So why hit her?
Perhaps she's a bad negotiator maybe a random ambush or just marked by another group of armed militia. There's plenty of those after all.
Whatever. Just thought you all might like to know.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3755537.stm
Oh I take it back. She's not such a bad negotiator after all.
Nice to see some politics amidst the fighting.
Lets hope all parties stay true to their word.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3752393.stm
A little ray of hope?
Dee Cee
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