NEWS FLASH: There is no such thing as a lack of belief.

lixluke said:
Why go fanatic about the whole "lack of belief" ideology?
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It's a backlash against people describing atheism as a religion.

The position of most atheists is less like "I don't know if Pete's shirt is blue", more like "I don't know if there is a pot of gold in my backyart", and possibly even more like "I believe that there is no pot of gold in my cupboard."


The belief in practice of an atheist, based on absence of evidence that should be evident is not like the belief in practice of most (not all) theists, based on parental and peer indoctrination and/or purely subjective evidence. But it is a common argument of theists that the atheist belief is like the theist belief. When the atheist in return declares a "lack of belief", they are denying a lack of belief of the theistic kind.

There are exceptions of course. Some atheists do in fact hold a fanatical dogmatic belief that God doesn't exist. Unfortunately, this type are overrepresented in public discussions, and they will often deny their belief purely as an argumentative measure. For them, it's not about finding the truth, it's about justifying their existing belief.
 
I'm an atheist. I believe there is no god. So what's the big deal?

A belief in nothing is still a belief. There is no escape.
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I think the thread does an adequate job of proving nothing. Therefore I believe it to be true.
 
lixluke said:
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It's not a huge deal as many atheists seem to make their beliefs about God to be. They even make a huge deal out of acting like it's not a huge deal. Yet they obsess over it.
Well maybe not all of them which I am coming to find out, but many I have met anyway.
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Here's a relevant post I made in another thread:

Not all atheists are zealots. Neither are all theists.

Unfortunately, zealots (both atheist and theist) are more visible, because they are the most argumentative. The result is that most theists think that most or all atheists are zealots, and most atheists think that most or all theists are zealots. It makes productive communication very difficult, because it hides the common ground shared between most theists and atheists.
 
Pete said:
Here's a relevant post I made in another thread:

Not all atheists are zealots. Neither are all theists.

Unfortunately, zealots (both atheist and theist) are more visible, because they are the most argumentative. The result is that most theists think that most or all atheists are zealots, and most atheists think that most or all theists are zealots. It makes productive communication very difficult, because it hides the common ground shared between most theists and atheists.
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What common ground? :)
 
lixluke said:
I guess what I am getting at is....
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Oh, pleeeease, just tell me which one the only and true religion is and I will sign up and we can shut you up. Leave the illogical nonsense....

I mean I already tried Haven's Gate, but when they wanted to castrate me, I said, noooooooooo....!!!!!!

"For a time, group members lived in a darkened house where they would simulate the experience they expected to have during their long journey in outer space. A publication produced at this time that received some press attention was titled "How to build a U.F.O." and purported to describe an interplanetary spacecraft built out of materials such as old tires."
 
I should apologize for blatantly violating rules time and again for the bashing of an entire religion or whatever you want to call it.

Like Jaster said, part of it is one of my best friends that is blatantly atheist, and refuses to embrace his atheism. He thinks he's a gay bright. He goes into convulsions(not literally) at the mere mention of God. Any time he watches a movie or whatever. Sometimes they say things colloquialisms such as "Oh God" and "Jesus Christ!". He starts tripping.

To top it off, I go online, and there is all this talk about "weak atheism, atheist agnostic, lack of belief, and on and on"
I just roll my eyes at this.
Either you believe in God or you do not. Or you don't know. Perhaps you don't know or don't care.

I find it funny that it has often been related to me about a flying spaghetti monster. My stance is the mofo simply doesn't exist. I believe it doesn't exist. However you would like to phrase it. There is no flipping flying spaghetti monster.

Many atheists feel the same way about God, yet for some reason, do not take any stance.

Proposition: The flying spaghetti monster does exist.
I would take the con, and say hell no.

Frankly, nobody uses phrases like "lack of belief" or "absence of belief".
Either you believe it or not or you simply don't know or could care less.
I guess this is what I am getting at in my OP.
Not necessarily that the "lack of belief" defined is invalid.
More like the "lack of belief/absence of belief" as a phrase is pointless.


Then there is the whole changing of "I do not believe" phrase. Everybody knows when I say "I don't believe in a flying spaghetti monster", my intentended meaning is that "there is no such thing as a flying spaghetty monster".
Unfortunately, atheists have caviled the phrase "I do not believe" to the point of insanity.
Now you can no longer say "I do not believe" something without some nutcase walking up to you:
"You do not believe. That means it is possible that you do not not believe. It is possible that you are claiming you do not know if this monster exists. Har har har"
Get real!

Sure what the caviler says is totally accurate.
However, nobody in real life uses "I don't believe" in any other connotation than describing actually believing there is no. Leading more to the criticism of atheist fanaticism.


What I am saying is not necessary that "lack of believe" really has no meaning. It could, in fact, well have a meaning. I am simply saying that it doesn't exist because it has no relevance. There is no point in it. You believe. You don't believe. You don't know. Whatever. The term "lack of belief" is simply so nonsensical.
 
Syzygys said:
Oh, pleeeease, just tell me which one the only and true religion is and I will sign up and we can shut you up. Leave the illogical nonsense....

I mean I already tried Haven's Gate, but when they wanted to castrate me, I said, noooooooooo....!!!!!!

"For a time, group members lived in a darkened house where they would simulate the experience they expected to have during their long journey in outer space. A publication produced at this time that received some press attention was titled "How to build a U.F.O." and purported to describe an interplanetary spacecraft built out of materials such as old tires."
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????WTF????
 
Yet another thread started on stupidity!

Here we are again arguing about the same old crap, as the other thread. News flash Lixnutcase has no "lackofbelief" that I have a 12"pecker! thus it's a fact, that since he can't "lackbelief" of my 12"pecker that I do have a 12"pecker! :D

Thaks Lix!
 
Godless said:
Yet another thread started on stupidity!

Here we are again arguing about the same old crap, as the other thread. News flash Lixnutcase has no "lackofbelief" that I have a 12"pecker! thus it's a fact, that since he can't "lackbelief" of my 12"pecker that I do have a 12"pecker! :D

Thaks Lix!
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Godless is a loon. Defending his concept of lack of belief with total fanaticism.
 
lixluke said:
All atheists hold this belief.That is the very definition of atheism.
God does not exist.
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Don't belive there is a God due to there is no evidence for God, like there is no evidence for hobgoblins, unicorns, or the Giant Spaghetti Monster.
 
I lack a belief in little green men on the moon, in that I don't actively disbelieve it, it's just not a thought that comes up in the course of a typical day.
 
spidergoat said:
I lack a belief in little green men on the moon, in that I don't actively disbelieve it, it's just not a thought that comes up in the course of a typical day.
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But the thought of "God" does come up regularly for you. You're here, on this forum, right? You're obviously not ambivalent to "God", since you comment on "God" regularly. So, do you believe or disbelieve in "God"? Or, do you not know? See, although lixluke's position seems rather silly, I think I understand what he's trying to say, although I disagree with his generalizations.

You can't talk about "God" on a regular basis, claim to not believe in God, and then say it's not an active disbelief, just a lack of belief. A simple lack of belief implies ambivalence, and any atheist who posts around here and doesn't simply say "I don't know" on the question of "God" is taking an active position on the subject. If you were really ambivalent, and it was just a simple lack of belief, then you wouldn't comment. As soon as you make the decision to comment on the topic, and you say that you don't believe, then you are taking an active position. To take a passive position, someone would have to ask you. The fact is, you assert that you don't believe in "God", which means you are actively disbelieving in "God" since you've gone out of your way to write it all down without being prompted by the question. You see my point?
 
Jaster Mereel said:
But the thought of "God" does come up regularly for you. You're here, on this forum, right? You're obviously not ambivalent to "God", since you comment on "God" regularly. So, do you believe or disbelieve in "God"? Or, do you not know? See, although lixluke's position seems rather silly, I think I understand what he's trying to say, although I disagree with his generalizations.

You can't talk about "God" on a regular basis, claim to not believe in God, and then say it's not an active disbelief, just a lack of belief. A simple lack of belief implies ambivalence, and any atheist who posts around here and doesn't simply say "I don't know" on the question of "God" is taking an active position on the subject. If you were really ambivalent, and it was just a simple lack of belief, then you wouldn't comment. As soon as you make the decision to comment on the topic, and you say that you don't believe, then you are taking an active position. To take a passive position, someone would have to ask you. The fact is, you assert that you don't believe in "God", which means you are actively disbelieving in "God" since you've gone out of your way to write it all down without being prompted by the question. You see my point?
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The problem is that the knowledge of the concept of God is not saying that someone believes in God. Anyone can have the concept of God. You can disagree with the belief in God but know the concept. Atheist know the concept of God. Atheist just dont belive in a God due to no evidence to support the concept.
 
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Jaster,
Personally, I actively disbelieve in God with a high degree of certainty (slightly less than 100%, to the same degree as I disbelieve in Hobbits), but I think what I described is possible, there are some people, such as stone age tribes in the Amazon, who simply lack a belief in the concept.
 
"I refuse to prove that I exist" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." "Oh," says man, "but the Babel Fish is a dead give-away, isn't it? It proves You exist, and so therefore You don't." "Oh, I hadn't thought of that." says God, who promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. - Douglas Adams
 
CRasch said:
The problem is that the knowledge of the concept of God is not saying that someone believes in God. Anyone can have the concept of God. You can disagree with the belief in God but know the concept. Atheist know the concept of God. Atheist just dont belive in a God due to no evidence to support the concept.
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Yes, but the question of belief is what comes up most often on here. If you participate in that line of questioning, and you don't say "I don't know", then you've considered it and now your position is no longer passive. Passivity on the issue would imply ambivalence to the concept of "God", but when you take part in the discussion of whether or not "God" exists, and you say that you don't believe in "God", you've taken an active stance on belief and so you no longer "lack belief". Once you've done that, you are disbelieving in "God".
 
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