News flash! Drugs win drug war!

[fadingCaptain]

Why is the US still spending billions of dollars on a 'war' that has not accomplished any of its goals since its inception decades ago?
Why are we throwing people in jail for minor pot possession, when prison overcrowding is letting child abusers out on the streets?
Why aren't we looking for alternatives to current ineffective drug policies?
Why didn't we learn anything from prohibition?
Why are we creating organized crime and gangs?

The drug war is a failure. We need to initiate a change. What would be a better solution?

 

[Xev]

The drug war is a failure. We need to initiate a change. What would be a better solution?

Legalization, obviously.

 

[Nancy_Lieder]

I posted this before but I think it bears repeating.

How can people claim to be Pro-Choice yet support the war on drugs. 20 times more people die from the prescription drugs given out by doctors, yet it sems okay for people to pop tons of those pills. What the hell happened to "It's my body to with as I please".

"The professional politicians scramble to make names for themselves as tough anti-drug warriors, while the experts agree that the "war on drugs" has been lost, and could never be won. The tragic victims of that war are your personal liberty and its companion, responsibility. It's time to consider the re-legalization of drugs.

In the 1920's, alcohol was made illegal by Prohibition. The result: Organized Crime. Criminals jumped at the chance to supply the demand for liquor. The streets became battlegrounds. The criminals bought off law enforcement and judges. Adulterated booze blinded and killed people. Civil rights were trampled in the hopeless attempt to keep people from drinking.

When the American people saw what Prohibition was doing to them, they supported its repeal. When they succeeded, most states legalized liquor and the criminal gangs were out of the liquor business.

Today's war on drugs is a re-run of Prohibition. Approximately 40 million Americans are occasional, peaceful users of some illegal drug who are no threat to anyone. They are not going to stop. The laws don't, and can't, stop drug use.

Whenever there is a great demand for a product and government makes it illegal, a black market always appears to supply the demand. The price of the product rises dramatically and the opportunity for huge profits is obvious. The criminal gangs love the situation, making millions. They kill other drug dealers, along with innocent people caught in the crossfire, to protect their territory. They corrupt police and courts. Pushers sell adulterated dope and experimental drugs, causing injury and death. And because drugs are illegal, their victims have no recourse.

Half the cost of law enforcement and prisons is squandered on drug related crime. Of all drug users, a relative few are addicts who commit crimes daily to supply artificially expensive habits. They are the robbers, car thieves and burglars who make our homes and streets unsafe.

Civil liberties suffer. We are all "suspects", subject to random urine tests, highway check points and spying into our personal finances. Your property can be seized without trial, if the police merely claim you got it with drug profits. Doing business with cash makes you a suspect. America is becoming a police state because of the war on drugs.

Today's illegal drugs were legal before 1914. Cocaine was even found in the original Coca-Cola recipe. Americans had few problems with cocaine, opium, heroin or marijuana. Drugs were inexpensive; crime was low. Most users handled their drug of choice and lived normal, productive lives. Addicts out of control were a tiny minority.

The first laws prohibiting drugs were racist in origin -- to prevent Chinese laborers from using opium and to prevent blacks and Hispanics from using cocaine and marijuana. That was unjust and unfair, just as it is unjust and unfair to make criminals of peaceful drug users today.

Some Americans will always use alcohol, tobacco, marijuana or other drugs. Most are not addicts, they are social drinkers or occasional users. Legal drugs would be inexpensive, so even addicts could support their habits with honest work, rather than by crime. Organized crime would be deprived of its profits. The police could return to protecting us from real criminals; and there would be room enough in existing prisons for them.

It's time to re-legalize drugs and let people take responsibility for themselves. Drug abuse is a tragedy and a sickness. Criminal laws only drive the problem underground and put money in the pockets of the criminal class. With drugs legal, compassionate people could do more to educate and rehabilitate drug users who seek help. Drugs should be legal. Individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to put in their bodies, so long as they take responsibility for their actions."

 

[*stRgrL*]

In some aspects, the drug war sucks! But in others, its good. I dont want my kid thinking its okay to use drugs. We need to be more lenient on drug sentencing though. I agree there. California recently passed a law that uses diversion programs instead of time behind bars for drug users. I think this a big step. I dont think a person should have to do time because they are addicted to drugs. But what do you propose? Legalization of drugs? I dont think thats a good idea at all. We'd have shringes all over the place! Crackheads everywhere!!! I cant even let my child play at the local park for fear of her being poked by a used shringe. Imagine how it would be if drugs were legal.

Im all for legalization of pot though

 

[Nancy_Lieder]

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
In some aspects, the drug war sucks! But in others, its good. I dont want my kid thinking its okay to use drugs. We need to be more lenient on drug sentencing though. I agree there. California recently passed a law that uses diversion programs instead of time behind bars for drug users. I think this a big step. I dont think a person should have to do time because they are addicted to drugs. But what do you propose? Legalization of drugs? I dont think thats a good idea at all. We'd have shringes all over the place! Crackheads everywhere!!! I cant even let my child play at the local park for fear of her being poked by a used shringe. Imagine how it would be if drugs were legal.

Im all for legalization of pot though

We still have public indecency laws, you don't see beer cans and drunks everywhere even though alcohol's legal.

Drugs would still be illegal for kids, and the drug supply for kids would be curbed greatly.

 

[*stRgrL*]

Individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to put in their bodies, so long as they take responsibility for their actions

Ya, okay. Would you feel safe knowing that your pilot or policeman was high on heroin? Ya, didnt think so.

This would be good if so many people didnt abuse drugs. Unforunately, some people cannot take responsibilty for their own actions. I know, I work at drug rehabilition clinic.

 

[Nancy_Lieder]

Ya, okay. Would you feel safe knowing that your pilot or policeman was high on heroin? Ya, didnt think so.

I think they already have drug testing for pilots, so that wouldn't be an issue.

These people can't be drunk at work either.

This would be good if so many people didnt abuse drugs. Unforunately, some people cannot take responsibilty for their own actions. I know, I work at drug rehabilition clinic.

Many people can't handle alcohol, cigarettes or fast food either. Who is anyone to tell a person what to do with their body?

Clinton smoked a joint and got flamed because of it by the Republicans, yet Bush and Cheney have 4 DUIs combined and they call it a "youthful indiscretion".

 

[Xev]

Star:

You raise good points.

In some aspects, the drug war sucks! But in others, its good. I dont want my kid thinking its okay to use drugs.

I don't blame you. But I don't think that keeping drugs illegal will change much for her attitude. Look at all the kids who think it's okay now.

We'd have shringes all over the place! Crackheads everywhere!!! I cant even let my child play at the local park for fear of her being poked by a used shringe. Imagine how it would be if drugs were legal.

You assume here that if drugs were legal, they would be more plentiful? Well maybe. But for all the money we spend on the war on drugs - which is not working - we could clean up parks and spend federal and state money on rehab programs.

This would be good if so many people didnt abuse drugs. Unforunately, some people cannot take responsibilty for their own actions. I know, I work at drug rehabilition clinic.

Many people are alcoholics and live on the streets. Should we make alcohol illegal? Not a good idea, judging from what happened last time!

Addicts can get drugs now. They'll be able to get drugs if they were legalized. Perhaps they might not have to fear seeking treatment if drugs were legalized, for that matter.

I don't think the government has any right to tell a person what to do with his own body, if they are not harming anyone.

 

[*stRgrL*]

Xev

Dammit! Why do you have to argue with me??? You always win

Ya, I agree with you except for one thing...

You assume here that if drugs were legal, they would be more plentiful?

Probably. They would be bringing over the border in tons. Well, they already do, but if it were legal, there would be no consequences, everyone would be doing it.

So do you guys propose legalization with taxation? Just curious. How would we control it? Age limits like alcohol? Tell me more, I might change my mind

 

[Xev]

Star:

Probably. They would be bringing over the border in tons. Well, they already do, but if it were legal, there would be no consequences, everyone would be doing it.

That's true, drugs would probably be more plentiful. And the price would probably drop.

So do you guys propose legalization with taxation? Just curious. How would we control it? Age limits like alcohol? Tell me more, I might change my mind

That's what I think. Stores wishing to sell drugs - not like supermarkets, but the equivalent of liquer stores or head shops nowadays - would be liscensed by the federal or state government, which would keep track of them the same way we do liquer liscenses. This way, they would not sell to people under 18 and all. They'd have to card.

Sales would be taxed perhaps, I dunno, 10% (just off the top of my head) above the regular sales tax, and the proceeds from the tax would be used to pay for free treatment and needle disposal programs and suchlike. The stores themselves would pay a license fee, which would go towards funding the liscensing program.

 

[Tyler]

"How can people claim to be Pro-Choice yet support the war on drugs"

Simple. People do not have absolutes in their values. They are rational human beings and take things issue-by-issue.


"In the 1920's, alcohol was made illegal by Prohibition. The result: Organized Crime. Criminals jumped at the chance to supply the demand for liquor. The streets became battlegrounds. The criminals bought off law enforcement and judges. Adulterated booze blinded and killed people. Civil rights were trampled in the hopeless attempt to keep people from drinking."

Impossible to link alcohol prohibition to drugs. For one, when prohibition came into affect it was during a time that absolutely every single human being drank alcohol except for Christian mothers in a couple states. For two, there is never going to be as many heroin users as beer drinkers. What you could link prohibition to would be making cigarrete's illegal - which just ain't gonna happen because we learned from our mistake. By the way, prohibition created guys like Capone and the origins of cool mafia guys - therefore I respect it.


"Today's war on drugs is a re-run of Prohibition. Approximately 40 million Americans are occasional, peaceful users of some illegal drug who are no threat to anyone. They are not going to stop. The laws don't, and can't, stop drug use."

Forty million. As opposed to the entire population.


"Whenever there is a great demand for a product and government makes it illegal, a black market always appears to supply the demand. The price of the product rises dramatically and the opportunity for huge profits is obvious. The criminal gangs love the situation, making millions. They kill other drug dealers, along with innocent people caught in the crossfire, to protect their territory. They corrupt police and courts. Pushers sell adulterated dope and experimental drugs, causing injury and death. And because drugs are illegal, their victims have no recourse."

That is the first great truth you've stated. Though, I've never really heard of a drug war in Toronto.


"Half the cost of law enforcement and prisons is squandered on drug related crime. Of all drug users, a relative few are addicts who commit crimes daily to supply artificially expensive habits. They are the robbers, car thieves and burglars who make our homes and streets unsafe."

What they're doing in England is what you want then. Make certain drugs decriminalized and that way the cops won't waste time arresting and writing up reports for guys smoking on a street corner.


"Civil liberties suffer. We are all "suspects", subject to random urine tests, highway check points and spying into our personal finances. Your property can be seized without trial, if the police merely claim you got it with drug profits. Doing business with cash makes you a suspect. America is becoming a police state because of the war on drugs."

Good. Fucking right good. I don't want my bus driver or pilot having one hit off a joint let alone any real drugs.


"Today's illegal drugs were legal before 1914. Cocaine was even found in the original Coca-Cola recipe. Americans had few problems with cocaine, opium, heroin or marijuana. Drugs were inexpensive; crime was low. Most users handled their drug of choice and lived normal, productive lives. Addicts out of control were a tiny minority."

Haha. Cocaine in Coke was about enough to get a mouse slightly high. Opium was a major problem in the late 1800's by the way.


"The first laws prohibiting drugs were racist in origin -- to prevent Chinese laborers from using opium and to prevent blacks and Hispanics from using cocaine and marijuana. That was unjust and unfair, just as it is unjust and unfair to make criminals of peaceful drug users today."

Wrong. Marijuana was made illegal to appease paper-mill owners who realized that hemp paper could become cheaper.


"It's time to re-legalize drugs and let people take responsibility for themselves. Drug abuse is a tragedy and a sickness. Criminal laws only drive the problem underground and put money in the pockets of the criminal class. With drugs legal, compassionate people could do more to educate and rehabilitate drug users who seek help. Drugs should be legal. Individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to put in their bodies, so long as they take responsibility for their actions."

Legalizing all drugs would be incredibly detrimental to society. For starters - 90%+ of the population would scream at the top of their lungs to impeach whomever decided this. Second it would actually make drugs like acid and heroin more accessible. Not a good idea. A friend and I were high once and wanted to try acid (being as how high we were it seemed logical at the time despite that we had to go home in 4 hours). We soon came to the conclusion that there was no way we could find it in time. Had it been available at the corner store we could have just gotten ourselves fucked. The point is - make something easier to get and more people will try. And this is never a good idea with drugs like heroin, acid or speed.

 

[static76]

Impossible to link alcohol prohibition to drugs. For one, when prohibition came into affect it was during a time that absolutely every single human being drank alcohol except for Christian mothers in a couple states. For two, there is never going to be as many heroin users as beer drinkers. What you could link prohibition to would be making cigarrete's illegal - which just ain't gonna happen because we learned from our mistake. By the way, prohibition created guys like Capone and the origins of cool mafia guys - therefore I respect it.

The prohibition of drugs is the same as the one on alcohol. It supports Organized Crime, and has put half of the American prison population in jail. Why do you think America's crime rate is so much higher than any other industrialized country. Legalizing drugs is a must in the US.

Wrong. Marijuana was made illegal to appease paper-mill owners who realized that hemp paper could become cheaper.

Your totally right, hell our Declaration of Independance was written on hemp paper, so how can we make it illegal.

Legalizing all drugs would be incredibly detrimental to society. For starters - 90%+ of the population would scream at the top of their lungs to impeach whomever decided this. Second it would actually make drugs like acid and heroin more accessible. Not a good idea. A friend and I were high once and wanted to try acid (being as how high we were it seemed logical at the time despite that we had to go home in 4 hours). We soon came to the conclusion that there was no way we could find it in time. Had it been available at the corner store we could have just gotten ourselves fucked. The point is - make something easier to get and more people will try. And this is never a good idea with drugs like heroin, acid or speed.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. In America we can get ANY drug we want very easily. Just go to a club or rave and you can't help but run into them. 90% wouldn't scream at the top of their lungs because most Americans are for some legalization.

Common sense should be our guide, not Big Brother. The government has no right to tell any person how to treat their body, as long as it doesn't infringe on another's rights.

 

[Xev]

Ummm, Tyler, I think you've said enough about your drug use here to make your arguments a tad bit hypocritical.

Impossible to link alcohol prohibition to drugs. For one, when prohibition came into affect it was during a time that absolutely every single human being drank alcohol except for Christian mothers in a couple states.

Ummm, no. There were several "dry" states before the 18th amendment was passed.

See here.

By the way, prohibition created guys like Capone and the origins of cool mafia guys - therefore I respect it.

I presume you're not actually so stupid as to call thugs and murderers "cool", so I won't debunk the comment.

Forty million. As opposed to the entire population.

40,000,000 out of a total of 278,058,881. Gee whillikers, that's impressive. Especially considering that 58,726,036 of Americans are 14 or younger - a bit young for drugs.

Good. Fucking right good. I don't want my bus driver or pilot having one hit off a joint let alone any real drugs.

They don't regularly test such people in Canada? Wow. You guys must be getting into accidents all the time. What's wrong with you?

Wrong. Marijuana was made illegal to appease paper-mill owners who realized that hemp paper could become cheaper.

That may or may not have been a reason, but Nancy is correct.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/LIBRARY/histdrug.htm

Scroll down:

"reprinted from "Marijuana in America: a scientific confrontation"

by Dr. William D. Drake Jr.

Harry Anslinger was placed in charge of the treasury department's finger-in-the-dike operation to halt liquor smuggling in 1926. in 1926, not by coincidence, the first anti-marijuana stories began to appear in mass-circulation newspapers, and the yellow press had a lot of fun trying out marijuana's front-page possibilities. the first successful anti-marijuana campaign in the country, was waged by the morning and evening papers of New Orleans. While the editors of these papers did hedge their bets with the sure fire winner of racism, the central point of their stories was that all them niggers had found a new way to get at your (white) kids, and the secret weapon they used was stuff called muggles (marijuana slang name)."

Legalizing all drugs would be incredibly detrimental to society. For starters - 90%+ of the population would scream at the top of their lungs to impeach whomever decided this.

Umm, Tyler, last I checked, America was a representative democracy. This usually means that when important domestic policy decisions are made, the people have had a large say in it.

Second it would actually make drugs like acid and heroin more accessible. Not a good idea. A friend and I were high once and wanted to try acid (being as how high we were it seemed logical at the time despite that we had to go home in 4 hours). We soon came to the conclusion that there was no way we could find it in time. Had it been available at the corner store we could have just gotten ourselves fucked. The point is - make something easier to get and more people will try. And this is never a good idea with drugs like heroin, acid or speed.

Sorry you and your friends are weak, Tyler, but I want to try acid and H someday, and I don't see why your inability to handle your drugs is my problem.

Under my solution, you would have to be 18+. If a person with no serious mental health issues is 18+, they can take care of their own damned self.

I'm tired of what Carlin called "the pussification of America". If you can't control yourself, your problem.

Static76:

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. In America we can get ANY drug we want very easily. Just go to a club or rave and you can't help but run into them. 90% wouldn't scream at the top of their lungs because most Americans are for some legalization.

Damn straight. First time I tried E, I did not even have to ask or look. It was offered.

Common sense should be our guide, not Big Brother. The government has no right to tell any person how to treat their body, as long as it doesn't infringe on another's rights.

I like this. I am going to use it in my sig, if you do not mind.

 

[static76]

"I like this. I am going to use it in my sig, if you do not mind."

Be my guest, I'd be honored.

 

[Tyler]

"Ummm, no. There were several "dry" states before the 18th amendment was passed."

Stand corrected. It still differs largely from prohibition of alcohol.


"I presume you're not actually so stupid as to call thugs and murderers "cool", so I won't debunk the comment."

Some of the greatest movies ever have been about mafia. And I actually do think guys like Conway and such were cool. Having that much power!


"40,000,000 out of a total of 278,058,881. Gee whillikers, that's impressive. Especially considering that 58,726,036 of Americans are 14 or younger - a bit young for drugs."

So one in 7 Americans has used drugs? And you think that approachs the number of people who have alcohol once a month (which is the requirement I believe for being called a 'recreational drug user'. By the way, last report I herad had 40 million was the number who had tried recreational drugs - not of those who recreationally use).


"They don't regularly test such people in Canada? Wow. You guys must be getting into accidents all the time. What's wrong with you?"

How did you gather that? I said it's good that they test people.


"That may or may not have been a reason, but Nancy is correct."

May have been a reason? Every member on the committee which looked into the matter when it was made illegal had a link to paper companies. I'd say that's a bit more than suspicious. I have a book on this somewhere, I'll find it and quote it after this post.


"Umm, Tyler, last I checked, America was a representative democracy. This usually means that when important domestic policy decisions are made, the people have had a large say in it."

Nancy has stated that right now we should legalize all drugs. I'm telling her that right now that would be a dumb ass idea.


"Sorry you and your friends are weak, Tyler, but I want to try acid and H someday, and I don't see why your inability to handle your drugs is my problem."

I want to try acid someday too. But not while I'm stoned out of my mind and wandering around downtown Toronto. Know why? Because it's fucking stupid.


"I'm tired of what Carlin called "the pussification of America". If you can't control yourself, your problem."

If you're not smart enough to no take a serious hallucinogen in the middle of the night in a very bad area of a major city while near a disgusting lake, your problem.



Static;

"Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. In America we can get ANY drug we want very easily. Just go to a club or rave and you can't help but run into them. 90% wouldn't scream at the top of their lungs because most Americans are for some legalization."

Starters - "some legalization". The majority of American's aren't even for marijuana legalization. They will be, eventually. As will Canadians and Brits and such.

Second - Go out and get some heroin. Better yet, go ask a middle class high school kid to find some heroin. Bet you they can't in a night.


"Common sense should be our guide, not Big Brother. The government has no right to tell any person how to treat their body, as long as it doesn't infringe on another's rights."

More than agree. Drugs should be legalized. But it will happen over a long period of time.

 

[Xev]

Tyler:

Stand corrected. It still differs largely from prohibition of alcohol.

How so?

Some of the greatest movies ever have been about mafia. And I actually do think guys like Conway and such were cool. Having that much power!

Oooookaaay. So, it is okay that Cthulhu knows how many people died because of these thugs, as long as a good movie or two was made on the subject?

Pretty sick priorities, to put your entertainment over human life, but to each his own.

Power? *Snorts* They controlled some money, some of government, many people's lives. Big fucking deal.

So one in 7 Americans has used drugs? And you think that approachs the number of people who have alcohol once a month (which is the requirement I believe for being called a 'recreational drug user'. By the way, last report I herad had 40 million was the number who had tried recreational drugs - not of those who recreationally use).

So more Americans use alchohol than other drugs. But it's not an exceedingly huge difference.

A: Why shouldn't people use drugs?
B: The number of people prevented from use is not worth the billions of dollars and hundreds to thousands of lives lost in the drug war.

May have been a reason? Every member on the committee which looked into the matter when it was made illegal had a link to paper companies. I'd say that's a bit more than suspicious. I have a book on this somewhere, I'll find it and quote it after this post.

No need. That's not my point. My point is that Nancy is also partially correct.

Nancy has stated that right now we should legalize all drugs. I'm telling her that right now that would be a dumb ass idea.

Non sequiter:

Tyler: Legalizing all drugs would be incredibly detrimental to society. For starters - 90%+ of the population would scream at the top of their lungs to impeach whomever decided this.

Xev: Umm, Tyler, last I checked, America was a representative democracy. This usually means that when important domestic policy decisions are made, the people have had a large say in it

Tyler: Nancy has stated that right now we should legalize all drugs. I'm telling her that right now that would be a dumb ass idea.

Dodging the issue a bit, aren't you?

Furthermore, your "telling" so far consists of a few easily debunked assertions.

I want to try acid someday too. But not while I'm stoned out of my mind and wandering around downtown Toronto. Know why? Because it's fucking stupid.

Good. Then you should have the sense not to do things to yourself that are "fucking stupid" without the government holding your hand and coddling you like a widdle bitty baby.

In other words, you just proved my point.

If you're not smart enough to no take a serious hallucinogen in the middle of the night in a very bad area of a major city while near a disgusting lake, your problem.

My point exactly. So why not just say "Xev, you're right, the government shouldn't be fighting some dumbass war on drugs to keep dumbass me from doing stupid things." ?

More than agree. Drugs should be legalized. But it will happen over a long period of time.

Nancy has stated that right now we should legalize all drugs. I'm telling her that right now that would be a dumb ass idea.

Can't you decide?

 

[postoak]

This is a very difficult issue

I've never been able to make up my mind on this one. I'd just like to throw out some random thoughts.

1) The drug war could be said to be a success if you define "success" loosely enough. If success means making it harder to get drugs and making it less likely that some people will use drugs, then it can be said to be a success. PLEASE don't tell me that drugs are "everywhere" and that nobody is dissauded from using them because they are illegal. We all know better.

2) If we propose age-limits for drug use won't that keep the black market in place? Or else, adults will get the stuff legally and sell it to their underage buddies? If we make it legal, it seems like it'll be available to just about anyone not under immediate parental control.

3) The argument that "no one has a right to tell me what I can take" doesn't sound very convincing. Isn't that what government IS? If you support government then you support the idea of someone telling someone else what they can do.

Now a question. If drugs are legal, some people will take them and do horrible things -- causing the death of many people, unintentionally, say. If it's YOUR child who has done something like that are you going to still be supportive of legalized drugs or will you be whining "well if drugs weren't legal my child would never have done this, it isn't HIS fault".

Don't take the above to mean I'm dead set against legalizing drugs -- I just see problems with it.

 

[*stRgrL*]

Good points Postoak. And welcome to Sciforums!

Ya, look at all the deaths caused by drunk drivers. Not that there werent any during the prohibition, but if alcohol were illegal, it would call for much harsher sentencing to repeat offenders. Which is a good thing. Im split on my decision here. Ill have to ponder over this tonight....

 

[static76]

Starters - "some legalization". The majority of American's aren't even for marijuana legalization. They will be, eventually. As will Canadians and Brits and such.

In Media polls maybe, but ask the average person and you'll get a different response. My first job was as a campaign worker (I was one of those annoying people outside of stores asking people to sign my petition). One of the things we were trying to get on the ballot was medical marijauna(prop 215 in California). Most people happily signed and would have signed a petition for total legalized pot. EVEN in the very conservative parts of Southern Cali.

Second - Go out and get some heroin. Better yet, go ask a middle class high school kid to find some heroin. Bet you they can't in a night.

Wouldn't have to, all they need to do is go to school, drugs are everywhere. I went to a Catholic high school, and drugs were readily available. Plus if drugs were legal it would make it easier to focus on those who sell them to kids.

More than agree. Drugs should be legalized. But it will happen over a long period of time.

If you agree, then why are we arguing.

I'd have no problem if the US slowly phased in legalization.

 

[Tyler]

"How so?"

If not just for the fact that the general public views heroin much differently than beer?
A) not as dangerous
B) drugs have not been legal for the last, well, as long as any human can remember. alcohol had been.
C) the numbers vary hugely


"Oooookaaay. So, it is okay that Cthulhu knows how many people died because of these thugs, as long as a good movie or two was made on the subject?"

Good movie or two? Try tons!
Anyway, no, I didn't say it was okay what they did. I just say they caused some awsome movies.


"Power? *Snorts* They controlled some money, some of government, many people's lives. Big fucking deal."

Capone owned Chicago. Ever seen Goodfellas? The mafia controlled cities. Much more power than you'll ever come close to touching.


"A: Why shouldn't people use drugs?"

Certain drugs are highly dangerous. Some of them I wouldn't use. Some of them I wouldn't use in specific environments. However, as I've stated, I have absolutely no authority over anyone else's body.


"B: The number of people prevented from use is not worth the billions of dollars and hundreds to thousands of lives lost in the drug war."

Agreed. If you can remember every drug discussion we're ever had I am for legalization. However, if you're just concerned about the government's money - all you want is decriminalization.


"Dodging the issue a bit, aren't you?"

Um, no? I'm saying that legalizing all drugs right now is a completely irrational belief to hold. I'd equate it to saying "all the wars in Israel should stop tomorrow". It's a great idea, but that's all it will be.


"Good. Then you should have the sense not to do things to yourself that are "fucking stupid" without the government holding your hand and coddling you like a widdle bitty baby."

Your right. And everyone should have the common sense not to murder. After all, it is detrimental to society. So why make that law? Anyway, maybe if I say it more than 3 times you'll understand that I'm for legalization.


"My point exactly. So why not just say "Xev, you're right, the government shouldn't be fighting some dumbass war on drugs to keep dumbass me from doing stupid things." ?"

How about I say; Xev you're right, however you're not actually replying to what I'm saying. Now, could you please show me where I state I'm FOR the war on drugs? Or is that just another thing you've made up to argue against me?


"Can't you decide?"

Can't you read English?

-- "More than agree. Drugs should be legalized. But it will happen over a long period of time."

- In this quote you will notice that I have stated I am for drugs to be legalized but that it must take a long period of time.

-- "Nancy has stated that right now we should legalize all drugs. I'm telling her that right now that would be a dumb ass idea."

- Now, maybe I don't speak English as well as I thought but I assumed this was pretty easy to understand. Nancy says we should legalize all drugs right now. Then I proceed to say that I "right now" (in case you missed that - "RIGHT NOW") that would be "a dumb ass idea".

So as you see, I am consistent through both quotes.