Neuro-linguistic programming.....

Phobias are about perceptions which can sometimes be altered using NLP or one of a number of other techniques. That we are agreed on.
Agreed..

What you call a poxy metal bar requires a certain force ( as used in physics ) to bend it. Either a man has sufficient strength to bend the bar or not. Perception does not enter into it. He may increase the flow of his adrenaline but that does not endow him with more strength than he had to begin with
Agreed to a point....
The increase of adrenaline should enhance the physical performance..
More adrenaline the more maximised performance but this shouldn't be refutable as the strength would have to be there initialy....
Yet perception does enter into it as who would be willing to accept that they would be able to pyhsicaly bend the bar with their throats (as in joe bloggs)without changing their comprhension of the task (as in NLP)
 
Agreed..


Agreed to a point....
The increase of adrenaline should enhance the physical performance..
More adrenaline the more maximised performance but this shouldn't be refutable as the strength would have to be there initialy....
Yet perception does enter into it as who would be willing to accept that they would be able to pyhsicaly bend the bar with their throats (as in joe bloggs)without changing their comprhension of the task (as in NLP)

Who but a showman ? Anyway, we've flogged this to death.
 
For your information, I know about Milton, Richard Bandler and others involved in NLP. It has nothing to do with bending bars.
You claim this.! which is all i'm interested in but say nothing about what i'm asking about this in my OP...:shrug:
Who but a showman ? Anyway, we've flogged this to death.
You could not have read the OP properly and you've waffled about a poxy Iron bar (for ten post's )which I have know interest in.
You claim to know about NLP yet do not indulge into this aspect....
Go and bother Saquist you waster of time and space, but try and read the OP before replying next time...Good Luck:p
 
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Can anyone give me a 'laymans' insight into the into the 'creation of the models' which they use for these NEURO-LINGUISTIC PROGRAMS....?
Or how they start of say treating the phobia..does it change person to person or is it a set technique for all..
Any info on NLP please no matter how small
 
You claim this.! which is all i'm interested in but say nothing about what i'm asking about this in my OP...:shrug:

You could not have read the OP properly and you've waffled about a poxy Iron bar (for ten post's )which I have know interest in.
You claim to know about NLP yet do not indulge into this aspect....
Go and bother Saquist you waster of time and space, but try and read the OP before replying next time...Good Luck:p

You mentioned a tv presenter involved in bending an iron bar in your first post and you attributed his ability to do so to NLP. I have unsucessfully tried to tell you that this was a stunt but you cannot seem to understand what I'm saying. If you had even an elementary knowledge of physics, you would have come to that conclusion on your own.

I cannot understand why you are having difficulty finding information on NLP. A guy called Richard Bandler has written extensively on it, one of his earliest books being " Frogs into Princes". A search at Amazon should help you find what you are seeking.

NLP is a form of hypnosis, dealing as it does with altered states of consciousness. Like hypnosis it will only work on subjects who are suggestible.
As an example, one of the techniques it uses is as follows:


Think of an unpleasant experience, something which you would prefer not to think about in the normal course of events. Form a large picture of the scene in your mind and, as you continue to focus on it, change it from colour to black and white. Now allow the picture to become smaller and smaller until it fades away completely. Repeat this a few times and , the claim is , that your unpleasant experience will begin to lose its power to disturb you.

You can also try the same thing, this time adding music. Think of a band playing Happy Days are Here Again while you envisage an unpleasant experience, such that you create a ridiculous effect.

There are lots of other techniques but I suggest you do the necessary background work by reading. Check Amazon as I have suggested.

The success rate of NLP is difficult to verify because, as I understand it, there are no follow-up studies of the kind one gets with clinical trials.

I'm sorry I wasted your time, or was it you who wasted your time, but I was trying to explain an elementary principle of physics which you were having difficulty understanding. I'm not sure whether you now understand what I was saying.

PS I do not claim to have knowledge which I lack. When I said I knew about NLP that is exactly what I meant. The fact that you inferred otherwise is not my problem. End of story.
 
You mentioned a tv presenter involved in bending an iron bar in your first post and you attributed his ability to do so to NLP. I have unsucessfully tried to tell you that this was a stunt but you cannot seem to understand what I'm saying. If you had even an elementary knowledge of physics, you would have come to that conclusion on your own.
Yes but my only interest was the technique in which 'jon goodwin' was taught in his approach to the task...Yes it possible that anyone could do this yet, not all will try,and some would get hurt, as with the phobia my interest is funnily enough what you have written below.

I cannot understand why you are having difficulty finding information on NLP. A guy called Richard Bandler has written extensively on it, one of his earliest books being " Frogs into Princes". A search at Amazon should help you find what you are seeking.
Thanks I will look at the book....I can find stuff but some is too complicated to take in without proper explanation

NLP is a form of hypnosis, dealing as it does with altered states of consciousness. Like hypnosis it will only work on subjects who are suggestible.
As an example, one of the techniques it uses is as follows:


Think of an unpleasant experience, something which you would prefer not to think about in the normal course of events. Form a large picture of the scene in your mind and, as you continue to focus on it, change it from colour to black and white. Now allow the picture to become smaller and smaller until it fades away completely. Repeat this a few times and , the claim is , that your unpleasant experience will begin to lose its power to disturb you.

You can also try the same thing, this time adding music. Think of a band playing Happy Days are Here Again while you envisage an unpleasant experience, such that you create a ridiculous effect.

There are lots of other techniques but I suggest you do the necessary background work by reading. Check Amazon as I have suggested.

The success rate of NLP is difficult to verify because, as I understand it, there are no follow-up studies of the kind one gets with clinical trials.
Thanks...

I'm sorry I wasted your time, or was it you who wasted your time, but I was trying to explain an elementary principle of physics which you were having difficulty understanding. I'm not sure whether you now understand what I was saying.

PS I do not claim to have knowledge which I lack. When I said I knew about NLP that is exactly what I meant. The fact that you inferred otherwise is not my problem. End of story.
Now the time is not wasted, I understood the physics , it was of no consequence to the question.
I shall definetly read 'frogs to princes'...Eureka...
 
Yes but my only interest was the technique in which 'jon goodwin' was taught in his approach to the task...Yes it possible that anyone could do this yet, not all will try,and some would get hurt, as with the phobia my interest is funnily enough what you have written below.


Thanks I will look at the book....I can find stuff but some is too complicated to take in without proper explanation


Thanks...


Now the time is not wasted, I understood the physics , it was of no consequence to the question.
I shall definetly read 'frogs to princes'...Eureka...


I can tell you a bit more which will show how NLP is a form of hypnosis. This technique is used in a situation where a subject is relaxed. It's simply telling a story within a story within a .... and embedding a metaphor in a roundabout way to which the subject can relate after getting suitably confused.

Imagine you are recovering from and illness which has left you in a weakened condition. The chat then goes something like this.

I knew an old fellow once, a storekeeper who lived in a small town and whose hobby was whittling. That fellow could carve a beautiful object from any old piece of wood. His neioghbours admired what he did and many of them treasurted the pierces he gave them. But there was one piece he would never part with. That was the first piece he carved when his pop bought him his first knife from a travelling salesman called Jake who came by every few weeks, Jake travelled all over anmd always had lots of stories to tell about places he had been and people he knew. Jakes brother , John. had a son ,Jim ,who was born with a deformed leg so that he limped when he walked. Jim had a close friend , Chuck, who took him swimming in the creek and encouraged him to use his bad leg so that it would get stronger. Chuck's uncle, Edward was a travelling salesman just like Jake ,who sold the knife to the father of the whittler who gave it to his son as a birthday present, never imagining that the boy would make a name for himself in the town.

But Chick's uncle Edward ,unlike Jake, managed to get enough together to buy a small piece of land on which he built a house for his family and, in his turn he had travelling salesmen call on him. One day Chuck took Jim to meet his uncle and as they sat on the veranda drinking root beer, uncle Edward explained how he fell in love with farming. He loved to plant seeds and watch them develop in the sun and the rain. He could never fully understand how a little seed could manage to grow into a tall strong plant because it was so tiny. He simply wondered how it got so big and strong. He watched it produce a small. vulnerable shoot which slowly and almost imperceptibly grew a little bit stronger each day, a bit like someone recovering from an illness becomes gradually stronger without exactly knowing where the strength comes from, not that it really matters because the strength is inside the person like the plant is inside the seed. First a little shoot, then a second, then gradually growing stronger and taller because it's only a question of time and patience and these things happen whether we notice them or not, but we can be sure that with each passing day you are getting stronger and it won't be long until you have recovered from your illness and you will look back and wonder how it happened but you may never know or understand, in the same way that Chuck's uncle Edward could not fully understand how a small seed could develop into a tall strong plant but that was not really important because he knew it would happen as he had seen it all before and he simply knew that it would happen just as you know you are getting stronger every day even though you do not understand exactly what is going on inside your body and it doesn't matter that you don't know because it's enough to know that it is happening and you are feeling stronger day by day just as that little seed doesn't know what is happening to it. It just grows stronger and stronger as each day passes and in some way you are that little seed because you, too, are getting stronger without making an effort; it's just happening and you can feel this , so that is all that matters as you grow stronger and stronger...........................

That is just something I invented to give you some idea of the technique. The idea is that as you become interested in the story you gradually become confused as to what bit relates to another bit and a message of healing gets through to you when you give up trying to understand what is going on.

It's not possible to wholly convey what is going on in print. You must imagine you are in a relaxed state and the story is being told in a matter-of-fact way in a carefully modulated voice which becomes more and more monotonous as the story progresses. Another feature is that sentences run into each other in a kind of word salad making it difficult for you to follow.

You should have some idea of what NLP is about by now. There are other techniques and what is used depends on the practitioner and the subject.

Lastly, it is many years since I read Bandler's books so they may well be out of print by now, in addition to which methodologies may have become more streamlimed and effective. You are certain to find a lot of literature on the subject, if you wish to take it further. I have never practised NLP but I have removed phobias using desensitization and flooding.
 
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I can tell you a bit more which will show how NLP is a form of hypnosis. This technique is used in a situation where a subject is relaxed. It's simply telling a story within a story within a .... and embedding a metaphor in a roundabout way to which the subject can relate after getting suitably confused.

Imagine you are recovering from and illness which has left you in a weakened condition. The chat then goes something like this.

I knew an old fellow once, a storekeeper who lived in a small town and whose hobby was whittling. That fellow could carve a beautiful object from any old piece of wood. His neioghbours admired what he did and many of them treasurted the pierces he gave them. But there was one piece he would never part with. That was the first piece he carved when his pop bought him his first knife from a travelling salesman called Jake who came by every few weeks, Jake travelled all over anmd always had lots of stories to tell about places he had been and people he knew. Jakes brother , John. had a son ,Jim ,who was born with a deformed leg so that he limped when he walked. Jim had a close friend , Chuck, who took him swimming in the creek and encouraged him to use his bad leg so that it would get stronger. Chuck's uncle, Edward was a travelling salesman just like Jake ,who sold the knife to the father of the whittler who gave it to his son as a birthday present, never imagining that the boy would make a name for himself in the town.

But Chick's uncle Edward ,unlike Jake, managed to get enough together to buy a small piece of land on which he built a house for his family and, in his turn he had travelling salesmen call on him. One day Chuck took Jim to meet his uncle and as they sat on the veranda drinking root beer, uncle Edward explained how he fell in love with farming. He loved to plant seeds and watch them develop in the sun and the rain. He could never fully understand how a little seed could manage to grow into a tall strong plant because it was so tiny. He simply wondered how it got so big and strong. He watched it produce a small. vulnerable shoot which slowly and almost imperceptibly grew a little bit stronger each day, a bit like someone recovering from an illness becomes gradually stronger without exactly knowing where the strength comes from, not that it really matters because the strength is inside the person like the plant is inside the seed. First a little shoot, then a second, then gradually growing stronger and taller because it's only a question of time and patience and these things happen whether we notice them or not, but we can be sure that with each passing day you are getting stronger and it won't be long until you have recovered from your illness and you will look back and wonder how it happened but you may never know or understand, in the same way that Chuck's uncle Edward could not fully understand how a small seed could develop into a tall strong plant but that was not really important because he knew it would happen as he had seen it all before and he simply knew that it would happen just as you know you are getting stronger every day even though you do not understand exactly what is going on inside your body and it doesn't matter that you don't know because it's enough to know that it is happening and you are feeling stronger day by day just as that little seed doesn't know what is happening to it. It just grows stronger and stronger as each day passes and in some way you are that little seed because you, too, are getting stronger without making an effort; it's just happening and you can feel this , so that is all that matters as you grow stronger and stronger...........................

That is just something I invented to give you some idea of the technique. The idea is that as you become interested in the story you gradually become confused as to what bit relates to another bit and a message of healing gets through to you when you give up trying to understand what is going on.

It's not possible to wholly convey what is going on in print. You must imagine you are in a relaxed state and the story is being told in a matter-of-fact way in a carefully modulated voice which becomes more and more monotonous as the story progresses. Another feature is that sentences run into each other in a kind of word salad making it difficult for you to follow.

You should have some idea of what NLP is about by now. There are other techniques and what is used depends on the practitioner and the subject.

Lastly, it is many years since I read Bandler's books so they may well be out of print by now, in addition to which methodologies may have become more streamlimed and effective. You are certain to find a lot of literature on the subject, if you wish to take it further. I have never practised NLP but I have removed phobias using desensitization and flooding.

So its like sublimanal wordings incorporated into (an almost) hypnotical storyline, you have explained it superbly....thanks
 
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