Neuro-linguistic programming.....

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I watched two men bending an iron bar by restiing the bar between their throats last night. One of the men was a martial arts expert while the other man was the presenter.

similar to this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8DWfT83Tpc

The expert trained the presenter by usin NLP to change the way he 'thought' about the bar and bent it (It took 2 attempts) as they bent it in the short vid.

Are NLP'ers overiding the minds first impression "I cannot bend the mind with my throat", by concentrating/focusing not on the 'Bar' itself but the representative image in the 'mind' of the 'iron bar', and by changing our attitudes or perception of the iron bar at a base level of thought.
Or reprogramming the mind to trick the body, as the body reacts to the will of the mind


I looked some bits up today and found it confusing to say the least..
it seems these NLP techniques (changing thought,behavoir,and belief limitations) come about by making models of how these things work.
below are some of the models mentioned.
meta-model,
metaprogram,
sensory acuity,
Milton-model,
representational systems and submodalities...

I was wondering if anybody had a laymans way of explaining NLP on a practical level, and if we are capable of reprograming the way the mind respects matter can NLP increase the human capability by changing /overiding/denying the mind the final say...

If anyone can give a better insight into this please do....

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I should of probably titled it...
'Techniques in self-programing the mind over matter'

 

[Myles]

I think it's bullshit. If your body lacks the strength to bend an iron bar that's it. Suceeding the second time has more impact on the audience than if it were done at the first attempt.That's showmanship !

An experiment could be set up to measure the force required to bend a given bar. The maximum force of which a particular human body is capable could be measured before and after NLP. If this were done under controlled conditions, I'd wager that NLP would not produce the results claimed for it.

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I think it's bullshit. If your body lacks the strength to bend an iron bar that's it. Suceeding the second time has more impact on the audience than if it were done at the first attempt.That's showmanship !

The link wasn't the clip I saw the one I saw was "the indestructables" and the person doing it was 'Jonathan Goodwin'...
there was no audience and this guy regulary tries things like this but a lot of the time fails and really hurts himself.

An experiment could be set up to measure the force required to bend a given bar. The maximum force of which a particular human body is capable could be measured before and after NLP. If this were done under controlled conditions, I'd wager that NLP would not produce the results claimed for it.

The guy who tried it wasn't a pro, it is not just about force you have to avoid seriously damaging your 'Adams apple,Windpipe,throat and neck area'

I would take you up on that wager and would bet that 40-60% of the test subjects who did not use NLP would be injured.
It would be an interesting experiment divide them up into 2 groups one group being trained in the same fashion as I saw,the other group keep them at a hotel or somewhere for say the 24hrs before the exp' and tell neither group what the experiment is untill a specified time before hand...
I would guarentee a large % of those without using the NLP would not attempt the experiment as their minds would tell them NO, they would not believe they could do it...
I wager the NLP would produce the results claimed.

 

[Myles]

The link wasn't the clip I saw the one I saw was "the indestructables" and the person doing it was 'Jonathan Goodwin'...
there was no audience and this guy regulary tries things like this but a lot of the time fails and really hurts himself.


The guy who tried it wasn't a pro, it is not just about force you have to avoid seriously damaging your 'Adams apple,Windpipe,throat and neck area'

I would take you up on that wager and would bet that 40-60% of the test subjects who did not use NLP would be injured.
It would be an interesting experiment divide them up into 2 groups one group being trained in the same fashion as I saw,the other group keep them at a hotel or somewhere for say the 24hrs before the exp' and tell neither group what the experiment is untill a specified time before hand...
I would guarentee a large % of those without using the NLP would not attempt the experiment as their minds would tell them NO, they would not believe they could do it...
I wager the NLP would produce the results claimed.

There was no audience ? How come you saw him ?

I think he shpuld apply to James Randi and make himself a small fortune if he can substatiate his claim. That will never happen. What he is doinmg is nothing morte thar a circus strongman used to do. Showmanship !

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

There was no audience ? How come you saw him ?

I think he shpuld apply to James Randi and make himself a small fortune if he can substatiate his claim. That will never happen. What he is doinmg is nothing morte thar a circus strongman used to do. Showmanship !

it was tv show, and like i said he regularly gets hurt.
Its the mental preparation..
There is a lot of mind over matter in martial arts....
Its hardly that unbelievable that mental preparation plays an important part in it, breaking bricks with your head if i asked you to try it i'm sure you would have to pshyce yourself up first....
There is no claim to substantiate just as in the you tube clip, he went there to see if it was true (about bar bending) and was concerned about getting hurt (as I said he hurts himself quite regularly)

why do people not get peirced lying on a bed of nails...?
whats to substantiate.....?
I do not see what is to disbelieve....?

 

[spidergoat]

That's not Neuro-Linguistic Programming, that's Chi, along with serious training. NLP is what Bush uses to control our minds.

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

That's not Neuro-Linguistic Programming, that's Chi, along with serious training. NLP is what Bush uses to control our minds.

I'm more confused now than this morning,I thoguht Chi was energy. this bloke was on about will, and the perception of the object...
I thought bush used Bs'...
Any insight to NLP at all..

 

[Myles]

it was tv show, and like i said he regularly gets hurt.
Its the mental preparation..
There is a lot of mind over matter in martial arts....
Its hardly that unbelievable that mental preparation plays an important part in it, breaking bricks with your head if i asked you to try it i'm sure you would have to pshyce yourself up first....
There is no claim to substantiate just as in the you tube clip, he went there to see if it was true (about bar bending) and was concerned about getting hurt (as I said he hurts himself quite regularly)

why do people not get peirced lying on a bed of nails...?
whats to substantiate.....?
I do not see what is to disbelieve....?

First you say no audience, now you say ther guy was on TV. I won't try to convince you but you were looking at a showman. Mind over matter has been touted for years and people believe it but, as far as I know ,it has never been demonstrated under controlled conditions. If you think about it in terms of physics, at any given time the body has a give amount of energy. If this is not enough to bend a bar to begin with, where do you think the addirional energy comes from ?

 

[Myles]

That's not Neuro-Linguistic Programming, that's Chi, along with serious training. NLP is what Bush uses to control our minds.

That surely can't be Bush. NLP = No Language Problems

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

First you say no audience, now you say ther guy was on TV. I won't try to convince you but you were looking at a showman.

No..in the OP I said "I watched two men bending an iron bar by restiing the bar between their throats last night. One of the men was a martial arts expert while the other man was the presenter." I thought the 'presenter' would be obviously TV.(and like I said he normaly fails).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Ch-lklpMU&feature=related

I Mind over matter has been touted for years and people believe it but, as far as I know ,it has never been demonstrated under controlled conditions.

FIGHTERS-pshyce themselves up.
FIREWALKERS-pshyce themselves up and do not get burnt.
WEIGHTLIFTERS- pshyce themselves up to lift heavier than they can handle weights.
If you ask any semi-pro,pro,or serious sportsman if they mentaly prepare themselves when it comes to preparation for their sport...and you disbelieve this........:scratchin: do you believe any man is capable of breaking bricks like this with out damage to the head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX3LPpEnRdw
without mental preparation..? I don't

If you think about it in terms of physics, at any given time the body has a give amount of energy. If this is not enough to bend a bar to begin with, where do you think the addirional energy comes from ?

I'm sure the laws of physics would state that a man lying on a bed of nails who then gets driven over by a car would be peirced by the nails...?
I think your perception of mind over matter is a magical, mystical one which it is not...the last big job interview you had did you mentaly prepare for it...
Each time we tell ourselves I can do this,I can do this,I can do this what are we doing?

Its not about the energy as I said before..how do you explain how they treat phobia's with NLP then, say snakes, by using NLP they change the way the image of the snake is represented in the mind, then change the attitude/perception of 'Snake' at abase level of thought...no energy, no strength, same principle how does your explanation of strength and energy use fit into this........................?

 

[Myles]

No..in the OP I said "I watched two men bending an iron bar by restiing the bar between their throats last night. One of the men was a martial arts expert while the other man was the presenter." I thought the 'presenter' would be obviously TV.(and like I said he normaly fails).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Ch-lklpMU&feature=related


FIGHTERS-pshyce themselves up.
FIREWALKERS-pshyce themselves up and do not get burnt.
WEIGHTLIFTERS- pshyce themselves up to lift heavier than they can handle weights.
If you ask any semi-pro,pro,or serious sportsman if they mentaly prepare themselves when it comes to preparation for their sport...and you disbelieve this........:scratchin: do you believe any man is capable of breaking bricks like this with out damage to the head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX3LPpEnRdw
without mental preparation..? I don't


I'm sure the laws of physics would state that a man lying on a bed of nails who then gets driven over by a car would be peirced by the nails...?
I think your perception of mind over matter is a magical, mystical one which it is not...the last big job interview you had did you mentaly prepare for it...
Each time we tell ourselves I can do this,I can do this,I can do this what are we doing?

Its not about the energy as I said before..how do you explain how they treat phobia's with NLP then, say snakes, by using NLP they change the way the image of the snake is represented in the mind, then change the attitude/perception of 'Snake' at abase level of thought...no energy, no strength, same principle how does your explanation of strength and energy use fit into this........................?

You have come a long way from bending bars to removing the fear of snakes. Fears can be overcome but , again, I ask you, where does the claimed extra energy come from . There are no free lunches in Nature.

Firewalking is a trick. I know how it is done. I imagine you have never heard of Harry Houdini. See if you can get a book on him and you will learn a lot about how these stunts are done.

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

NLP seems to be a complex form of mental preparation....
Do you not believe in mental preparation....
You are obviously not a sportsman or a team player or you would know about mental preparation.

Also who said anything about extra energy....? you did..?:shrug:
You are only concentrating on the last few words of my 2nd post'mind over matter', If you do not know anything about NLP then you are being ignorant.

I'm talking about doing things that could seriously hurt you or doing things that your mind tells you ,you cannot do by using NLP to change the way your minds eye percieves the matter/object......

Does anybody know about NLP..and how they create the models
meta-model,
metaprogram,
sensory acuity,
Milton-model,
representational systems and submodalities...

Or any insight into NLP ,

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

ALL escapologists mentaly prepare themselves beforehand even houdini...?
NERUO-LINGUISTIC PROGRAMING look it up , its an alternative to Pshycotherapy.....

 

[Myles]

NLP seems to be a complex form of mental preparation....
Do you not believe in mental preparation....
You are obviously not a sportsman or a team player or you would know about mental preparation.

Also who said anything about extra energy....? you did..?:shrug:
You are only concentrating on the last few words of my 2nd post'mind over matter', If you do not know anything about NLP then you are being ignorant.

I'm talking about doing things that could seriously hurt you or doing things that your mind tells you ,you cannot do by using NLP to change the way your minds eye percieves the matter/object......

Does anybody know about NLP..and how they create the models
meta-model,
metaprogram,
sensory acuity,
Milton-model,
representational systems and submodalities...

Or any insight into NLP ,

I mentioned energy because it is relevant to the question of bending iron bars.

Psyching up, as you call it, will not increase your available energy. I should have thought that much was obvious.

For your information, I know about Milton, Richard Bandler and others involved in NLP. It has nothing to do with bending bars.

 

[Myles]

ALL escapologists mentaly prepare themselves beforehand even houdini...?
NERUO-LINGUISTIC PROGRAMING look it up , its an alternative to Pshycotherapy.....

Of course they do; it's all part of the show because onlookers are more impressed.

Houdini was an escapologist par excellence, despite which he only did tricks.

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I mentioned energy because it is relevant to the question of bending iron bars.

Yet it is also about the way you approach it,there is more to to the task than the amount of energy expelled and resistance faced

Psyching up, as you call it, will not increase your available energy. I should have thought that much was obvious.

HHhhmmm.... :scratchin:I would have thought Psyching yourself up would release more adrenaline (increase/better physical performance)than some one who is not psyched up or mentaly prepared for the task ahead.

For your information, I know about Milton, Richard Bandler and others involved in NLP. It has nothing to do with bending bars.

But I am not asking about the bar i'm asking about the mental approach to it.
How he did not concentrate on the bar (or the task) itself but on his perception or base approach to his whole interpretation of 'Iron Bar' and attitude to the task,(as in phobia's its not the phobia i am asking about its the technique to remove the phobia).
And any info apart from the density of iron would be appreciated...lol
I would like to know about the 'models' they use for these techniques and how they come about them in a more 'Anthropological Way' than, I wiggle my fingers and chairs float about, roll up roll.. see the strongman

Of course they do; it's all part of the show because onlookers are more impressed.

Houdini was an escapologist par excellence, despite which he only did tricks.

Bingo thats what i'm on about 'mental preparation'.....
The man I was on about 'Jonathan Goodwin' is an escapoligist (all be it a terrible one)

 

[Myles]

Yet it is also about the way you approach it,there is more to to the task than the amount of energy expelled and resistance faced


HHhhmmm.... :scratchin:I would have thought Psyching yourself up would release more adrenaline (increase/better physical performance)than some one who is not psyched up or mentaly prepared for the task ahead.

But I am not asking about the bar i'm asking about the mental approach to it.
How he did not concentrate on the bar (or the task) itself but on his perception or base approach to his whole interpretation of 'Iron Bar' and attitude to the task,(as in phobia's its not the phobia i am asking about its the technique to remove the phobia).
And any info apart from the density of iron would be appreciated...lol
I would like to know about the 'models' they use for these techniques and how they come about them in a more 'Anthropological Way' than, I wiggle my fingers and chairs float about, roll up roll.. see the strongman

Bingo thats what i'm on about 'mental preparation'.....
The man I was on about 'Jonathan Goodwin' is an escapoligist (all be it a terrible one)

Dont take my word for it. Explain where the extra energy comes from. If psyching up is a way of maximizing ones strength then either the body has sufficient energy to bend the bar or it has not. There are no free lunches.

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

Dont take my word for it. Explain where the extra energy comes from. If psyching up is a way of maximizing ones strength then either the body has sufficient energy to bend the bar or it has not. There are no free lunches.

Because Psyching yourself up releases more adrenaline...

What extra strength....?
I'm talking about the approach to 'Bending the bar' the bending of the bar is irrelevant, if you conducted an experiment the amount of people who would attempt it without NLP, would be far less than those who had NLP....as in the 'Phobia', You are not exerting any 'extra strength' in overcoming your fear, you are learning to percieve/approach the the whole focal point of the 'Phobia' in a different way...

In my OP I asked....

I was wondering if anybody had a laymans way of explaining NLP on a practical level, and if we are capable of reprograming the way the mind respects matter can NLP increase the human capability by changing /overiding/denying the mind the final say...

If anyone can give a better insight into this please do....

Not about poxy metal rods as i've been tring to say

 

[Myles]

Because Psyching yourself up releases more adrenaline...

What extra strength....?
I'm talking about the approach to 'Bending the bar' the bending of the bar is irrelevant, if you conducted an experiment the amount of people who would attempt it without NLP, would be far less than those who had NLP....as in the 'Phobia', You are not exerting any 'extra strength' in overcoming your fear, you are learning to percieve/approach the the whole focal point of the 'Phobia' in a different way...

In my OP I asked....


Not about poxy metal rods as i've been tring to say

Phobias are about perceptions which can sometimes be altered using NLP or one of a number of other techniques. That we are agreed on.

What you call a poxy metal bar requires a certain force ( as used in physics ) to bend it. Either a man has sufficient strength to bend the bar or not. Perception does not enter into it. He may increase the flow of his adrenaline but that does not endow him with more strength than he had to begin with