National ID cards, good or bad?

Are National ID cards a good idea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 38.5%

  • No

    Votes: 16 61.5%
  • Total voters
    26
L

lucifers angel

same shit, differant day!!
Registered Senior Member
What are your opinions on The Nationl ID Card?

i know personally i dont want them enforced in the UK, i understand that they are already in use in france,

I just think that its anouther way for the goverment to know where we are, and i know that they are making harder to get pastports now without an ID Card,

it has been prooven that illegal aliens will be able to operate in the UK with or without a card so why all the fuss?
 
I'd vote no to a National ID Card. I can see the value in rooting out illegals, but that assumes the illegals couldn't find employers willing to let them work "under the table" or that they couldn't get a fake card. It seems to me that those things are likely to happen are, at least in the U.S., those things are already the problem.

Plus I don't like the notion of there being a card that I "must" have in order to prove my citizenship. That's just creepy.
 
It's a bullshit waste of time. Let's look at government IT projects, ... the Child Support Agency (twice, and it's still rubbish) Project Atlantis (MoD information sharing), NHS National Computer System, Department for Work and Pensions fiasco,... the list goes on.

The govt are incapable of delivering a National Identity card system. The system they deliver will be costly (as a taxpayer and individual) not deliver the benefits proposed (tackling terror my asshole, Spain has national ID cards, didn't stop the Madrid bombings!) and so full of patches, loops and fixes that bad guys will easily be able to attain real ID cards, based on previous fake ID, so we gain nothing, and I would venture the whole thing would get scrapped (like CSA#1) before fully implemented.

If the govt really give a shit about the UK population, they would get an NHS computer with all our records onit sorted out, instead of the paperbased crap they still have to administer (a computer that tells you who has the paper records, ... DUH!)
 
In the Netherlands where I live, the ID card thing is already officially enforced. And if a police officer asks you for an ID card, and you don't have it, there is a fine of 50 euro (last time I checked). However I have been caught a few times without a ID card, and they have always let me go without a fine.

Lucifers angel, I wonder how you think that the ID card is just another way of knowing where the citizens are. Because here at least, it is simply used as a way of identification.
 
im meant to carry one in japan (only foreigners have to) but i dont.partly because of the principle of the thing and partyly because i am very lazy,infact i think ive lost it,which could be a problem if i ever want to get out of here :p

so in answer to the question,no.if only because it makes you feel like you are living in nazi germany
 
superstring01 said:
No for the USA. Whatever other countries do is their business.

~String
Click to expand...

what is a social security card? I can't get a job without one. Or a Driver's License? I need it every time I write a check or use a credit card. :shrug:
Wouldn't a national ID card just be a combination of these 2?
 
1. Most countries have it and they have better/more democracies than the US.
2. The government can know pretty much EVERYTHING* about you, so a national ID doesn't add anything extra to it.

* I bet they know what I buy at the grocery store (I have a card) or what I borrow from the library

So stop whinning about it, your freedom is already very limited, national ID is a fucking non-issue...
 
Orleander said:
what is a social security card? I can't get a job without one. Or a Driver's License? I need it every time I write a check or use a credit card. :shrug:
Wouldn't a national ID card just be a combination of these 2?
Click to expand...

You need it to get a job, but you'd be insane to carry your SS card around with you everywhere.

Syzygys said:
So stop whining about it, your freedom is already very limited, national ID is a fucking non-issue...
Click to expand...

1) I don't really care what works in Japan or France. And the fact that they have "better" democracies is a very subjective statement. I'll take mine over theirs any day.
2) People aren't "whining" when they oppose what you support. It's a non-issue for you, but obviously not for most Americans. And as you said, since the federal government has access to your info already, there's no need for the federal government to start issuing federal id cards to Americans. Sorry. The federal government needs to shrink it's involvement in my life, not reverse.

~String
 
Sounds like just another instrument of Big Brother government breathing down our necks.

"Your papers, please."
 
For convenience, (eg, Singapore), where your ID, Transport, Library are all rolled into one, I'm happy. But to prove citizenship ? Hell no. As long as there is cash as an alternative, I'm happy to have a NAT ID card.
 
Yes. Fully. Biometric implants. Tracking devices.


It roots out illegal immigration, and on top of everything it makes the place safer.

Also I agree with Syzgyz, the government is the government. What does it matter if they know stuff about you? That's their job, to govern.
 
Norsefire said:
Yes. Fully. Biometric implants. Tracking devices.


It roots out illegal immigration, and on top of everything it makes the place safer.

Also I agree with Syzgyz, the government is the government. What does it matter if they know stuff about you? That's their job, to govern.
Click to expand...

no it does not root out illegal immagration, it has been prooven that the illegas who did the london bombings would still be here with or wihtout a card
 
Syzygys said:
1. Most countries have it and they have better/more democracies than the US.
Click to expand...

We are talking about national ID cards in the UK.

2. The government can know pretty much EVERYTHING* about you, so a national ID doesn't add anything extra to it.
Click to expand...

If it add nothing, why do the govt want to intriduce them?

So stop whinning about it, your freedom is already very limited, national ID is a fucking non-issue...
Click to expand...

Clearly you are completley unaware of the issues surrounding them. Perhaps you should refrain from posting an opinion until you have educated yourself.
 
Norsefire said:
Also I agree with Syzgyz, the government is the government. What does it matter if they know stuff about you? That's their job, to govern.
Click to expand...


The govt need to know as little about me as possible, just enough to do their job and not one iota more.

If I am law abiding, and going about my legal business, they have no right to interfere, ask for ID, or know where I am going, nor where I have been.

That is freedom, maybe what you you have been sold as freedom fools you, but it doesn't fool others.
 
s0meguy said:
In the Netherlands where I live, the ID card thing is already officially enforced. And if a police officer asks you for an ID card, and you don't have it, there is a fine of 50 euro (last time I checked). However I have been caught a few times without a ID card, and they have always let me go without a fine.
Click to expand...

This is one of my problems with the card, ... it will cost each citizen a couple of hundred pounds,.. the govt have played this figure down, but it has to be funded, either directly, or via taxation, there is no way around that fact. If you lose your card you will be a non-person until you get another, with doubtless some punitive fine on top of a re-issue fee, and maybe some interview, or legal disposition to declare it lost, to prevent, or discourage rather, sale of ID cards.

That said, you wouldn't want to carry it, in case you lose it, so the govt are going to have to introduce some pressure, like a fine, and that is overstepping the mark when it comes to human rights. If I'm going about my business, not breaking the law, the Police no not have any right to interfere with me. If someone is caught breaking the law, the Police aleady have powers of arrest and detention that do not require an ID card to back them up.

Lucifers angel, I wonder how you think that the ID card is just another way of knowing where the citizens are. Because here at least, it is simply used as a way of identification.
Click to expand...

I have ID, and it's my choice whether I carry it or not. The Police may detain people they have arrested until their ID is ascertained. ID cards achieve nothing, therefore.

Meanwhile LA, you had a thread about this a while back;

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=67905
 
phlogistician said:
This is one of my problems with the card, ... it will cost each citizen a couple of hundred pounds,.. the govt have played this figure down, but it has to be funded, either directly, or via taxation, there is no way around that fact. If you lose your card you will be a non-person until you get another, with doubtless some punitive fine on top of a re-issue fee, and maybe some interview, or legal disposition to declare it lost, to prevent, or discourage rather, sale of ID cards.

That said, you wouldn't want to carry it, in case you lose it, so the govt are going to have to introduce some pressure, like a fine, and that is overstepping the mark when it comes to human rights. If I'm going about my business, not breaking the law, the Police no not have any right to interfere with me. If someone is caught breaking the law, the Police aleady have powers of arrest and detention that do not require an ID card to back them up.



I have ID, and it's my choice whether I carry it or not. The Police may detain people they have arrested until their ID is ascertained. ID cards achieve nothing, therefore.

Meanwhile LA, you had a thread about this a while back;

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=67905
Click to expand...

yeah thanks i forgot,

and anyway there are a better "class" of people here now. (cough cough)
 
With 6.7 billion people and growing, upon the planet, isn't it a bit strange to think we can give everybody a standard ID? Don't we still get all these allegations of suspected undercounting in censuses? If there's so many people in the world, that the people-counters can't even seem to find, how in the world are we going to get them their IDs? And people already know who they are, so isn't a standard ID largely irrelevant for quite many people? People in the person's village knows who they are, and why should the government need to know who everybody is anyway? Goverment can't even tell the difference between a shadow and a hole in the ground anyway.

Now while I think we would have the right, to require "minor" ID data to be captured, as a condition for granting foreigners and immigrants admission to our country, say like fingerprints, once they have children here, their children are citizens, the same as us, and probably then not subject to such unreasonable IDing requirements anymore. I can't see what business it is of the government's to take my children's fingerprints. That's what you do to criminals, not common people.
 
Norsefire said:
Yes. Fully. Biometric implants. Tracking devices.


It roots out illegal immigration, and on top of everything it makes the place safer.

Also I agree with Syzgyz, the government is the government. What does it matter if they know stuff about you? That's their job, to govern.
Click to expand...

What if you don't like the government ? and you purchased the Anarchist's cookbook ?.
 
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