Muslims should broadcast Dutch anti-Islam film.

francois: "I can see good things coming from this."

Would you care to be specific? I can see good and bad, and I'm not sure on which side there will be the most impact (see my last post).
 
its funny posting a thread on fitna in a forum filled with people who think 911 was an inside job, or either a mossad(zionist) doing.
 
I can see good things coming from this.

muhammed_cartoon.jpg

That reminds me. Apparently he forgot to ask permission to use the cartoon

Danish newspaper cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, whose depiction of the Prophet Mohammed with a bomb in his turban sparked violent protests in 2006, complained on Dutch TV that Wilders used his work without permission, "so it is simply a case of violation of copyright rules".

as well as the clip

Dutch director Rob Muntz was also surprised to see a clip of an interview he conducted with Theo van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker who was stabbed and shot dead in Amsterdam. Muntz says he never gave permission, and will seek legal advice too.

and got confused between a rap singer and a murderer

Wilders also mistakenly used a photo of Dutch-Moroccan rapper Salah Edin instead of Mohammed Bouyeri, Theo van Gogh’s murderer. Edin, perhaps unsurprisingly, is also suing.

Rather silly, if you ask me.
 
Mr. Spock: "a forum filled with people who think 911 was an inside job, or either a mossad(zionist) doing."

That doesn't seem accurate, at least not outside of the pseudoscience threads. Those kind of wild conspiracies don't get an eager reception in the World neighborhood. It seems to me as if alarmism about "Islamofascist World Domination" gets more play, at least when it's not as sensationalist as Fitna.
 
Mr. Spock: "a forum filled with people who think 911 was an inside job, or either a mossad(zionist) doing."

That doesn't seem accurate, at least not outside of the pseudoscience threads. Those kind of wild conspiracies don't get an eager reception in the World neighborhood. It seems to me as if alarmism about "Islamofascist World Domination" gets more play, at least when it's not as sensationalist as Fitna.

so not accurate that there were days i lost count of the posts blaming israel and the US on 911.
 
There's an important difference between acknowledging Israeli and US provocation of terrorism, and speculating that Israel and/or the US were secretly involved in the 9-11 attacks. Of the former, there have been many proponents, including myself. Of the latter, not so many- and their arguments are easy to logically debunk. It just isn't honest to conflate those two camps.

Conflating very different arguments is a similar sort of slapped-together reasoning that Fitna apparently displays. There may be some redeeming value in critiquing it.
 
There's an important difference between acknowledging Israeli and US for provocation of terrorism, and speculating that Israel and/or the US were secretly involved in the 9-11 attacks. Of the former, there have been many proponents, including myself. Of the latter, not so many, and their arguments are easy to debunk. It isn't honest to conflate the two camps.

This is a similar sort of slapped-together reasoning that Fitna apparently displays. There may be some redeeming value in critiquing it.

sure there is a difference. i never said there wasnt. perhaps the slap around is yours, for mixing the two without me saying so, a?
 
Because Fitna is making global waves, I wish we could discuss it in Whirled Events. The most interesting aspect to me will be how universally it is recognized as the shit that it is. I'm wondering if extreme propaganda like this might open the eyes of some people who have caught only a mild case of the islamophobia virus. Maybe Fitna will be more thought-provoking than hate-mongering within intelligent communities. But it's sure to fan the flames among those harboring ignorant fears and deep hatred of Islam.

I think the Dutch Muslims are setting a great example.

There was virtually no reaction throughout the Netherlands to Geert Wilders' much-anticipated film, that was watched by more than 2 million people within the first two hours of its release on the internet.

The vast majority of Dutch viewers, Muslims and non-Muslims alike appear not to have found the film particularly provocative towards Muslims.

In Eindhoven, several Muslim organizations distributed special forms in the city's seven mosques enabling everyone to file a complaint of discrimination against Wilders with the Dutch police.

But in the crowded shopping streets of Lombok in the fourth largest Dutch city, Muslims appeared much less motivated to take action against Wilders. Friday's shopping continued as usual.

'No, we are not talking about Fitna,' a man standing among a large group of Muslims standing outside a local mosque after prayers on Friday, told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa.

'We are talking about my new car. That's really more important than some film by a Dutch legislator about the Koran.'

Another man, who identified himself as Ahmed, 27, added, 'Of course we watched the movie. But the truth is Wilders showed nothing new in his film. What does he think, that I agree to the horrific executions he showed in his film?'

In a local grocery store, a woman wearing a black burka responded confused when approached by dpa. She said she cannot talk to the media. Asked whether she had seen Wilders' movie, she apologized and walked away.

Another Muslim woman, wearing a headscarf had apparently witnessed the encounter, and approached dpa on her own initiative.

'It is a pity she did not talk to you,' said Fatima, a 32-year-old mother of two. 'Her refusal to talk to Western media confirms the ideas of people like Wilders.'

'The truth is that the vast majority of us, Dutch Muslims, do not identify with terrorist and fundamentalist ideas such as those expressed in the movie.'

'We just want to live our lives,' she said, 'but it's people like Wilders who polarize society and make us feel estranged. He says he sees a lot of integration problems in the Netherlands. The sad truth is that he himself contributes to them too.'

The umbrella organization of the Jewish community in the Netherlands, CJO, released a statement on Friday expressing a similar view.

'The film is counterproductive,' the CJO statement said. 'The expressions about Jews originating from the Koran, and referred to in the movie, demonstrate that some Muslims have horrific ideas about Jews and also indoctrinate children with such ideas. However, the way Fitna portrays reality polarizes society.'

Meanwhile, Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said he was 'proud' of Dutch Muslims and praised their calm reactions following the film.

The Dutch parliament is due to discuss the film on Tuesday.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/...nti-Islam_film_fails_to_provoke_Dutch_Muslims
 
maybe the dutch muslims feel as if they cause enough problems? one doesnt protest something he feels as true.
 
Mr. Spock: "perhaps the slap around is yours, for mixing the two without me saying so, a?"

Well then I'll own up to it. Without throwing all criticism and conspiracy-spinning about the US and Israel together, I don't see how you can reasonably suggest that the wildest 9-11 conspiracy-theories get as much advocacy here as islamophobia.

Sam: "I think the Dutch Muslims are setting a great example."

That's interesting, and encouraging. Maybe a this over-the-top Islamophobic propaganda will reveal its ridiculousness more than it will incite raw emotions. I hope so, but I'm still waiting for the aftershocks.
 
so you posted it here to override Asguard . how lovely:rolleyes:. :D


Actually I posted it here because someone asked for a link to it and I knew where it was. SAM had no dealing in having me post this or else I probably would not have. As for it being banned, I don't know about that as yet.
 
Mr. Spock: "perhaps the slap around is yours, for mixing the two without me saying so, a?"

Well then I'll own up to it. Without throwing all criticism and conspiracy-spinning about the US and Israel together, I don't see how you can reasonably suggest that the wildest 9-11 conspiracy-theories get as much advocacy here as (for example) Islamophobia.

arent we clever.

they get a lot of attention, or at least used to. even if they didnt as much as i claim, blaming the US and israel for provoking them, isnt that all much better.

another path to take the responsibility away from the perpetrators. from a superior position i presume.
 
I just saw Fitna on youtube.

I think ALL Muslims should broadcast it on their blogs and websites.

I certainly will.

Its an excellent Dutch anti-Islam film. :cool:

Weren't you arguing that it shouldn't be broadcasted just a few weeks ago? Or am I imagining things (again)?
 
its funny posting a thread on fitna in a forum filled with people who think 911 was an inside job, or either a mossad(zionist) doing.

hello spocky

i trust you are ok

pls can provide proof of this accusation

~~~~~~~~
cheers
zak
 
Weren't you arguing that it shouldn't be broadcasted just a few weeks ago? Or am I imagining things (again)?

That was before I saw it. I think it should be freely broadcast.

Its already on youtube, but it would help if they broadcast it on all television channels.
 
cosmictraveler: "Actually I posted it here because someone asked for a link to it and I knew where it was. SAM had no dealing in having me post this or else I probably would not have. As for it being banned, I don't know about that as yet."

This issue would be a good opportunity for clarifying what we consider unacceptably offensive, or excessively disruptive around here.

If a piece of blatant propaganda were introduced in a complimentary fashion here, and a hateful rabble were raised around it, I like to think that it will not go unchallenged around here by general members and by the moderators. There is a difference between discussing a hate-mongering phenomenon, and participating in it. It's not always distinct, and we shouldn't leap to conclusions, but that's where I think we should draw the line.
 
hello spocky

i trust you are ok

pls can provide proof of this accusation

~~~~~~~~
cheers
zak

the ever so "nice" ZAK

hey hows it going troopers


SO there you go, i have not been on sciforums for a while and today i have spent a little time on here and a lot of what i have read is anti- SAm stuff and accusations fo thsi and that and blah blah blah,..

Pls tell me what SAm has done so wrong cos i think she is great


Things is getting real nasty in places and i sense a snitch mentality which is not nice too, even the might Geoff has been banned cos he typed one too many s's talk about pedantic..

thank goodness Count Zero is not around cos if i had called him, count dooku someone would ahve snitched and i woudl ahve got banned - i hope not anyway!!!

And in the words of Tim Simenon

i'm outta here.........Peace

Zak

SAM little patron.

so how is "steve fucking mccleran" is doing this days? :rolleyes:
 
i thought the mods decided its forbidden to open a thread on this.

"Mods"? No. Not at all. There are three active mods in the political fora and the decision to "not" allow it was decided by one. I will stand by that decision until we can come to a better consensus between the three of us and the supreme leadership of this website.

IMHO, it belongs in politics and this discussion should go on there.

i think that if there is no double standard in sci fi forum, this thread should be deleted and SAM should be reported to plazma, just like it would happen to any of us.

Why should it be reported, what has happened that is so bad? A topic was posted by SAM? Though I share your scepticism about everything that SAM does, I can't say she's done anything wrong here. I mean, this is a free thought of her's and it is a film... so it kind of belongs here... ish.

so you posted it here to override Asguard . how lovely:rolleyes:

ill bet if i have done that ill get reported

Stop complaining. And, no you wouldn't have been reported if the subject matter fit in the new forum you posted it in.

its funny posting a thread on fitna in a forum filled with people who think 911 was an inside job, or either a mossad(zionist) doing.

Really? Because I know a lot of people in this forum, and I can only name two-or-three people who truly believe that. Some think that there was collaberation and some think that there were "other" factors that were covered up, but few I know think it was an inside job.

~String
 
Mr. Spock: "[9-11 conspiracy-theorists] get a lot of attention, or at least used to. even if they didnt as much as i claim, blaming the US and israel for provoking them, isnt that all much better."

But there's a difference. Just like there is a difference between criticizing Muslim radicals and individual firebrands, as opposed to conflating Islam with terrorism.
 
cosmictraveler: "Actually I posted it here because someone asked for a link to it and I knew where it was. SAM had no dealing in having me post this or else I probably would not have. As for it being banned, I don't know about that as yet."

This issue would be a good opportunity for clarifying what we consider unacceptably offensive, or excessively disruptive around here.

If a piece of blatant propaganda were introduced in a complimentary fashion here, and a hateful rabble were raised around it, I like to think that it will not go unchallenged around here by general members and by the moderators. There is a difference between discussing a hate-mongering phenomenon, and participating in it. It's not always distinct, and we shouldn't leap to conclusions, but that's where I think we should draw the line.

i wonder if you would feel the same about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWF2nLs0M_g&eurl=http://forum.bgu.co.il/index.php?showuser=2904

it will be a piece of documentary then would it not:rolleyes:
 
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