Muslim????

[Vienna]

I am Mr. Average here in the UK: married, 2 kids, average income , average home, average car, do the average amount of holidays, etc etc.

Yet I seem to notice that I am not the only one who is so incensed by all the pc nonsense given to Muslims whose silence in all this terrorism is deafening.

I feel the world is heading for maybe one last all out world war with the west v Islam.

And for me, Mr Average, I feel like I actually want it to happen. I read more and more and see more and more acts of terror happening all around linked by one common word... Muslim!

Muslim "extremists", muslim "rebels", muslim "fanatics", muslim "fundamenalists", and so on. But yet in the same news articles we see the West -- which is so despised by these -- letting in so called asylum seekers/refugees. They come here, take all the benefits like free housing etc and then we pay them to plot from within as so recently seen here in the UK where 2 of the ricin terrorists were claiming asylum. (Let us not forget the "leaders" of "moderate" Muslim groups who spend more time crying "profiling" and "discrimination" than calling out for the militants to leave their midst!)

All the time, these bits of Muslim bad news chip away at me, Mr Average and make me feel so incensed that I fear that hate will build up inside...I feel that it is only a matter of time before we become terrorists against the terrorists...

Then when I stand back and look at what I am thinking in response to these daily events, I am in horror at the violent fantasies.

But if I am having these thoughts, and I am Mr Average, what is every one else feeling...???

 

[Nehushta]

Unfortunately, I know what you're feeling - sort of. Other than the fact that I personally don't want an all-out world war, and I think it would be great if we could "all just get along." I guess I'm kind of a naive idealist in that way. But that particular region of the world in which the three Abramic religions originated, no one seems to really want peace - be he Muslim, Christian or Jew. I confess that I simply don't understand this way of life. I've had it explained to me from both the Muslim and Christian perspectives (through no fault of my own, I have no Jewish friends or acquaintances to explain their side of the story) - and I still just don't get it. I guess that my brain was simply not wired for violence or hatred against my fellow creatures, nor was it wired with the drive to infect the rest of the world with whatever memes that it may have been infected with; so, like the Japanese adult whose brain was never wired to distinguish or reproduce the "L" sound from infancy, I simply cannot comprehend it (not the best analogy, perhaps - but it's all I could come up with at the moment).

I guess the short answer would be that I have no answers.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by Vienna
I am Mr. Average here in the UK: married, 2 kids, average income , average home, average car, do the average amount of holidays, etc etc.
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M*W: You sure fooled me. You're a man, but you sound like a frumpy old housewife. You call yourself "Mr. Average." How pitiful! What a boring life you must have. It's obvious, now that you've described yourself, how you must blend right into the wallpaper of your country. You sound as if you are proud to be Mr. Average. That is nothing to be proud of! That's pathetic! You have not only shown your ignorance but you have proven it as well.
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Yet I seem to notice that I am not the only one who is so incensed by all the pc nonsense given to Muslims whose silence in all this terrorism is deafening.
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M*W: You more than any other member on this forum has an obsessive hatred for Islam. You are ignorant of the religion, but you are quick to speak out against it. Your ignorance is showing.
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I feel the world is heading for maybe one last all out world war with the west v Islam. And for me, Mr Average, I feel like I actually want it to happen. I read more and more and see more and more acts of terror happening all around linked by one common word... Muslim!
----------
M*W: Mr. Average, you are paranoid. All you've done is found a scapegoat for your irrational fears. You even want to see an "all out war between the west and Islam!" It's ignorant people like you who start wars. And what would that prove to you? You obviously feel inferior, Mr. Average, to Muslims. I can see that--I believe the whole forum can see that! Your mindset has already been established, and you, yourself, see yourself as "average!" If you were learned, which you're not, you would not have these paranoid fears. There is no hope for you. You're wishy-washy with your own convictions! I bet you've never been able to make a decision in your life! You can't even decide if you're a Christian or an Atheist! No wonder you have fears. Anyone who is so indecisive cannot face reality.
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Muslim "extremists", muslim "rebels", muslim "fanatics", muslim "fundamenalists", and so on. But yet in the same news articles we see the West -- which is so despised by these -- letting in so called asylum seekers/refugees. They come here, take all the benefits like free housing etc and then we pay them to plot from within as so recently seen here in the UK where 2 of the ricin terrorists were claiming asylum. (Let us not forget the "leaders" of "moderate" Muslim groups who spend more time crying "profiling" and "discrimination" than calling out for the militants to leave their midst!)
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M*W: I'd say you fall under the heading of Christianity. Atheists wouldn't harbor such fears. So what are you afraid of? That the Muslims coming into your country will take away your indecisiveness? They will force you to make a commitment? Or are you afraid of ethnic cleansing? If you didn't see yourself as Mr. Average, you might be able to overcome your fears. I think it's a lost cause with you. No country will be genetically pure anyore. You can run, but you just can't hide.
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All the time, these bits of Muslim bad news chip away at me, Mr Average and make me feel so incensed that I fear that hate will build up inside...I feel that it is only a matter of time before we become terrorists against the terrorists...
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M*W: All muslims are not terrorists. You fear anything that is not like you! Most of the people of this world are not just "average." It is people like you the world needs to fear--mediocrity! Every Muslim I know is far beyond just "average." They set their goals higher than that, and they have farther to go to get there, especially when they are not in their own Islamic countries. I suspect that it's not only Muslims you fear. You have a problem--a serious problem. You need professional help. You need to be on some strong anti-psychotic medication. Your fears are irrational.
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Then when I stand back and look at what I am thinking in response to these daily events, I am in horror at the violent fantasies.
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M*W: Those "violent fantasies" are in your head. You may be schizophrenic or have an associative disorder. Get help!
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But if I am having these thoughts, and I am Mr Average, what is every one else feeling...???
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M*W: The rest of the world doesn't feel or think like you do. You need help! If you don't get help, there's no telling what your mind will do to you. Your thinking is not normal. This rage you have for Muslims will erupt sooner or later. You need to see a psychiatrist as soon as possible. No one has this kind of abnormal hatred unless they are about to crack. You're only hurting yourself and your family. As far as your children, they do not need to be in the hateful environment you are providing for them. Go get help!

 

[Vienna]

Basically M*W when someone states the obvious and you can't understand it, you tell people to get help, hmmm.

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by Nehushta

I guess the short answer would be that I have no answers.

You are not alone - neither has the worlds leaders.

Perhaps the world would be a more peaceful planet without religion?

 

[Vienna]

Re: Re: Muslim????

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
Every Muslim I know is far beyond just "average." They set their goals higher than that, and they have farther to go to get there, especially when they are not in their own Islamic countries.

You make them sound as though they are on a permanent Jihad.

Islam is a militant religion based on death. I can't think of another death based religion since the Thugees save for Islam. Judaism is a life philosophy; since there isn't any real afterlife (only eventual resurrection) it is in a Jew's best interest to have fun while he is alive. In Christianity, although the afterlife has a big part in things, one gets there by living and loving. Only in Islam is the path to Heaven greased with the blood of martyrs and enemies.

Islam teaches that a short life with a violent death is best, and that is deplorable, but understandable when you look at what Islam was formed for. It was formed by a warlord, rejected by the Christians and Jews of his time, who formed what is essentially a taxation and annexation system.

This first half of Islam is jihad. A lot of people tell you that jihad is a spiritual struggle. That is disingenuous at best, and a lie at the heart. This is like saying that a crusade is struggle for a goal. It might be used in that sense, but that isn't what it means: it means holy war. In the same way, jihad means war, real blood and steel and bashed out brains war. When the Koran speaks of jihad, that is what it means. Convert others at the sword.

And that brings us to the second half of Islam. Taxation. When jihad came to town, when the Muslims won, you had three choices. You could convert, and you could pay the Muslim tax; you could submit, and pay the much higher -- and financially suicidal -- infidel tax; or you could die.

This isn't anything unique to Islam; medieval Europe had a similar system (I bet you weren't expecting the Spanish Inquisition), but we grew out of it. If we hadn't, I would hate Christianity the same way. The important distinction is that the Spanish Inquisition was an aberration of Christianity, while Jihad is central to Islam. Islam cannot grow out of Jihad and stay Islam.

The "moderate" Muslims -- the ones he see Jihad as a spiritual struggle -- are the aberration, and I don't believe that they can hold the line. Islam has always been a violent and warlike religion, and I hate Islam.

 

[Clockwood]

My guess is its all rooted in the old instincts we all have. Man as an animal dosn't want competition. We see something that could be a danger in the future and we want to charge headlong at it at crush it before it gets a chance. Guilt and compassion for people you don't even know are recent developments in the scheme of things and they have not yet really sunk in.

 

[rider]

all religion is based on death and murder christians murdered their savior jews have been slaughtered for simply being Gods chosen people muslims die in these attacks because they believed it was asked by god my opinion thats reason enough not to judge the other all kill or have killed besides why be afraid of what god told you would happen in plain writing you ppl will never open your eyes

 

[skywalker]

Re: Re: Re: Muslim????

Originally posted by Vienna
You make them sound as though they are on a permanent Jihad.

Islam is a militant religion based on death. I can't think of another death based religion since the Thugees save for Islam. Judaism is a life philosophy; since there isn't any real afterlife (only eventual resurrection) it is in a Jew's best interest to have fun while he is alive. In Christianity, although the afterlife has a big part in things, one gets there by living and loving. Only in Islam is the path to Heaven greased with the blood of martyrs and enemies.
.

The "moderate" Muslims -- the ones he see Jihad as a spiritual struggle -- are the aberration, and I don't believe that they can hold the line. Islam has always been a violent and warlike religion, and I hate Islam.

But yet christians have killed more people in the worlds in all the wars and genocides etc then muslims. Why is that?


More genocides and more wars started and fought by christians then muslims. Why is that??

Since you claimed that Christianity is the only peacful religion of the world. *sigh*

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Suicide Bombing in the Bible:

Jews and Christians are really clear hypocrites! They condemn the Palestinian Suicide Bomber Martyrs who are defending their lands and trying to drive the Israeli occupation out of their lands with every way they can, while intentionally ignoring the fact that their very own Bible allows suicide bombing.

The story of the Mighty Samson:

"Self sacrifice" and giving your life away intentionally and taking as many enemy lives with you as possible for the sake of GOD Almighty and your people exists in the Bible. Let us look at the story of the Mighty Samson in the Bible:

"Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them." Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:26-30)"

As we clearly see from the Bible, Samson gave his life for his people by killing as much from the enemy as possible.

Samson prayed to GOD to give him back his power (Samson lost his power after the seven braids of his hair were shaven by Delilah and her people while he was sleeping, Judges 16:1-20), and GOD Almighty granted him that revoked power back. Samson then was able to bring the temple down upon him and his enemies.

 

[Bells]

Originally posted by Vienna
Basically M*W when someone states the obvious and you can't understand it, you tell people to get help, hmmm.

Sorry but I personally think that Medicine Woman has more than stated the obvious. Paranoia is never a good thing and when it's coupled with hate, well let's just remind ourselves of Hitler.

All the time, these bits of Muslim bad news chip away at me, Mr Average and make me feel so incensed that I fear that hate will build up inside

I think all your hate has already chipped away at the Mr Average that you see yourself as being, and now there is nothing left but unreasonableness and irrational thought.

This isn't anything unique to Islam; medieval Europe had a similar system (I bet you weren't expecting the Spanish Inquisition), but we grew out of it. If we hadn't, I would hate Christianity the same way. The important distinction is that the Spanish Inquisition was an aberration of Christianity, while Jihad is central to Islam.

So you hate the Christian Indonesians who are on rampages murdering all non-christians? And you hate all those gits who go out shooting and murdering doctors who work in abortion clinics because they are not doing what God supposedly said? And you hate it when you see the US and the UK murdering thousands of muslims in Iraq? Your hypocrisy astounds me, although why, I really dont know.

And have we really grown out of it? Sorry but I still have images of Bush, Blair and Co smiling happily as the death and destruction of millions of muslims occur in Iraq. I have seen your previous rants and raves and they have all shown how hateful you really are. Tell me something, you call yourself a Christian yet you hate so much. From what I know of Christianity, one is not meant to hate as you do, but to love thy neighbour. Is this more hypocrisy from you or do you just interpret your bible differently to others? You know? Like other fundamentals interpret their religion differently to the general population? You say you hate Islam and it has been clear that you hate Muslims in the same way and you feel yourself wanting to do violent acts against them. Wouldn't that hate and those violent thoughts make you as bad as the muslim fundamental's you detest so much?

Islam has always been a violent and warlike religion, and I hate Islam.

Am I to guess that you're average mind has forgotten that Christianity has always been seen as a violent and warlike religion in the majority of the parts of the world? In some it still is. And you hate Islam? Gee, now there's a shock to us all. All of your posts have shown in detail how hateful you are of a religion you know nothing about. Again, the name Hitler comes to my mind. Don't ask me why. I guess when I see hateful and paranoid people such as yourself, it automatically makes me think of Hitler. Tell me something Vienna, are you just jealous that you are Mr Average and live in an average house with an average car and with an average family and possibly your muslim neighbour has an above average life? Do you feel as though you are stagnating while your muslim neighbours are leading above average lives? Or could it be just pure and simple paranoia and hate. Either way, I still see you as a short little man with a black moustache leading an average life and as M*W stated, needing lots of help. Although for you sadly, I think help might have been too late in coming.

Originally posted by Skywalker
But yet christians have killed more people in the worlds in all the wars and genocides etc then muslims. Why is that?

Pure and simple paranoia in the minds of the Vienna's of the world. When individuals have the whole "they're out to get me" outlook in life, destruction is bound to follow.

 

[Flores]

Vienna,

Work on your prejudices and you might get reality back. You are living in a filthy self centered prejudice hole created by your own mind. I pity you.

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by Bells
Sorry but I personally think that Medicine Woman has more than stated the obvious. Paranoia is never a good thing and when it's coupled with hate, well let's just remind ourselves of Hitler.

Go ahead, remind yourself of Hitler. I hate the man and all he stood for.

I think all your hate has already chipped away at the Mr Average that you see yourself as being, and now there is nothing left but unreasonableness and irrational thought.

Thats your opinion.

So you hate the Christian Indonesians who are on rampages murdering all non-christians? And you hate all those gits who go out shooting and murdering doctors who work in abortion clinics because they are not doing what God supposedly said? And you hate it when you see the US and the UK murdering thousands of muslims in Iraq? Your hypocrisy astounds me, although why, I really dont know.

Yes, I hate violence.

And have we really grown out of it? Sorry but I still have images of Bush, Blair and Co smiling happily as the death and destruction of millions of muslims occur in Iraq. I have seen your previous rants and raves and they have all shown how hateful you really are.

I was against the war.

Tell me something, you call yourself a Christian yet you hate so much.

Don't jump to conclusions, I am not a Christian but I do prefer Christianity out of all faiths.

You can despise Christianity for all your worth, it doesn't bother me. I've heard it all.

Y'know Muslims have to criticise other religions too…. blah, blah, blah. Quoting many belligerent verses from the old Testament, they start to demonstrate how bad it (i.e. Christianity and Judaism) was, forgetting the fact that by bringing out those barbaric verses from the old Testament, the Islamists were simply reinforcing and authenticating the ‘appalling elements’ of the Qur’an as well. Why?

Because, the Qur’an confirms the contents of those holy Books (i.e. the Old Testament and the Gospel). Here are a few verses where Allah authenticates the what He had written in those scriptures are also parts of the Qur’an:

The Qur’an confirms the old books; Moses was given the law, Jesus was given the Gospel...3:3

Quran confirms the previous scriptures and supersedes them; if God willed He could have made a single people; believers are to compete in righteousness...5:48

Quran confirms the previous scriptures…6:92

The Quran is from God, it confirms the revelations of the past; Quran is a fuller explanation of God’s book; it contains no doubt...10:37

The Quran confirms in Arabic the book of Moses...46:12

Therefore, shall we not assume that by ‘bashing’ the Bible, you inadvertently bash the Qur’an itself? How funny it can be, come to think of it!

 

[davewhite04]

Originally posted by Bells

Sorry but I still have images of Bush, Blair and Co smiling happily as the death and destruction of millions of muslims occur in Iraq.

What you fail to acknowledge is the thousands of muslims that lay dead in mass graves killed by there then leader saddam.

It did take christian based political leaders to clear this horrific act against humanity up, but I don't think religion has anything to do with it, it is humanity.

Dave

 

[Bells]

Originally posted by davewhite04
What you fail to acknowledge is the thousands of muslims that lay dead in mass graves killed by there then leader saddam.

It did take christian based political leaders to clear this horrific act against humanity up, but I don't think religion has anything to do with it, it is humanity.

Dave

When the horrors that Saddam committed against his own people occured, why didn't the West step in then? Human rights organisations begged for something to be done to stop the slaughter, the people being slaughtered begged for help, yet help did not come. But at that time, Saddam was still the enemy of Iran. Help only came under the guise of the so called stopping weapons of mass destruction of which none were found. It was only after these wmd's weren't found did Bush, Blair and Co then bring forward the notion of liberating Iraq from a despotic leader. And wasn't it the so called christian based political leaders themselves who helped arm Saddam in the first place? Doesn't the US and friends have the motto of arm the enemy of your enemy? Well didn't this come round and bite the West on its butt this time.

Christian based political leaders aren't interested in humanity, they, like all leaders, are only interested in wealth. In the case of Iraq the wealth is oil, under the disguise of the search for WMD's. If christian based political leaders cared about humanity they would have stepped in and stopped the genocide in Rwanda in 1994 when more than 800,000 Tutsi were slaughtered. They would not have imposed the sanctions against Iraq which only punished the Iraqi people. States such as the United States and Australia would not have helped train the Indonesian soldiers, some of whom were involved in human rights abuses in East Timor until 1998. The list goes on and on. Notions of humanity don't come into it.

 

[Flores]

I'm really liking that Bells personality.

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by Bells
When the horrors that Saddam committed against his own people occured, why didn't the West step in then?

Because the West would have been persecuted for sticking their noses in where it is not wanted. And "lo and behold" look what happens when the West does do something. The middle east complain of oppression and retaliate with terrorism.

The troops are not welcome in Iraq, more of them are being killed now than during the early days of the war. I say pull the troops out now, because if the troops stay much longer it will turn into a middle eastern version of Vietnam.

 

[davewhite04]

So where is this discussion going? You talk about Bush and Blair laughing while muslims die, then I rebuke by saying that these very leaders prevented more muslims being needlessly murdered then you go on about why didn't they do this that then and when etc.

The truth is I don't know.

As for the arms sold to Iraq, well that was a different president and prime minister.

At the end of the day eliminating hussain was a big victory for humanity, yes it should have happened sooner but at least it happened at all.

Dave

 

[davewhite04]

Originally posted by Vienna
Because the West would have been persecuted for sticking their noses in where it is not wanted. And "lo and behold" look what happens when the West does do something. The middle east complain of oppression and retaliate with terrorism.

The troops are not welcome in Iraq, more of them are being killed now than during the early days of the war. I say pull the troops out now, because if the troops stay much longer it will turn into a middle eastern version of Vietnam.

I agree with your first paragraph, but I feel that we have come this far we should at least try to stabilise Iraq then give it back to the people.

Dave

 

[Bells]

You call invading another country to search for so called WMD's the West doing something? What the West has done Vienna in attacking Iraq is breach international law. Even the UN wouldn't support the US, UK and Co when they pushed for war against Iraq. Why? Because they didn't believe that WMD's existed and the reason for the invasion in Iraq was not for humanitarian reasons. And guess what? The Allied forces still haven't found the WMD's. Sure all can rejoice that a twit like Saddam is no longer in power, but who's in power now? By the US and co doing what it has done, it has only resulted in further bloodshed. The US had ummed and ahhed for the past 10 years about getting rid of Saddam, and why? Because they were unsure as to who would replace him and it's better to have an enemy you know then one you don't know.

The hypocrisy of it all is laughable. Only it's not funny because innocent people are losing their lives fighting a battle for money and oil. Yeah, the reasons for going to war and getting rid of Saddam were great. It's all been a slap in the face for the people of Iraq who suffered decades under his regime, can you blame them now for fighting against further oppression placed upon them by the Allied forces? Saddam was not deposed as leader to save the people of Iraq, he was deposed to save their oil.

I say pull the troops out now, because if the troops stay much longer it will turn into a middle eastern version of Vietnam.

For once I will agree with you Vienna (does it scare you as much as it does me?). The US invading Iraq will only end up in the same way as the war in Vietnam. The notions of the west and intervention for humanitarian reasons is a fallacy. Our past proves that and lets hope our future changes that.

It is when we have despots such as Bush, Blaire and Howard in power who are pushing fear and hate onto their populations that the hate and violence will continue. Islam is not to blame for terrorism. Humanity is to blame, because to hate is to feed people who perpetrate acts of terror.