The back lash is the young white College student who feels disenfranchised in the modern world. Where He sees him self as having no part in bigotry but he is penalized for being White male . I didn't make this shit up . I witnessed it at my own neighborhood council as several students came as a request from there political science class at the university . They expressed the sentiment of them selves and there peers . They were how do I say it . Very Heated almost to the point of belligerent . They made no bones about feeling the pressure of reverse discrimination because of being White Males . It was quite a switch from when my children were in university and they were in support of affirmative action. Yeah back lash by progressive young white males feeling disenfranchised is the best way to describe the tension in the room . Atheist environmentally conscious disenfranchised reversed discriminated white boys if that don't beat all . What will they think of next
Multiculturalism the known good
- Thread starter Mrs.Lucysnow
- Start date
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Wait a minute. Are you suggesting that a little boy is experiencing existential angst because of disenfranchisement? All he wanted was to have a friend at school. He's not disenfranchised because he's the member of the majority. Norway is still mostly homogenized. The point is that he wasn't able to integrate and neither were the foreigners, everyone retreats to the community they know.
Did you just invite Me to dinner Sara . You shouldn't have . You know I like you , but Me wife would never understand my dear . O.K. I am down with the party , I will bring Me wife and kids and a dish from Me own culture of Hill Billyism . I hope you like meat . If not how about a Dixon Melon . Cantaloupe to be exact. Oh my dear to die for . Oh so good So so Good . We can play some music too . Blend the sound of culture threw the sound of music. The hills are a live with the sound of music . That brings people together
Well its a Muslim neighborhood - so how many churches do they have? Do they have a community center? Some kind of womens organisation? Is it possible to have a simple get to know your neighbor occasion set up?
I think she does. And I think she is right. Think about it, how far would the civil rights movement have gone without the participation of whites? Could Barack Obama become President only on the black vote?
I was not talking about the little boy . I was talking to the question of multicultural road blocks . Geeze Lucy you run a tight ship . Loosen up a little . This is not Academia. I know some like to think so , but it is an internet discussion forum . We can't help but being Trolls you know . Specially when I am uneducated and can barley read . Getting Better, Practice makes perfect
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
@SAM
I think the parents tried everything, they tried for three years but they were isolated. The mum said she were never once invited to a birthday party or inside anyone's home. It was upsetting for her because as she said if the children cannot figure out this multi-ethnic thing then what hope do the adults have. I think she was counting on the natural openness of children.
I'm only guessing now but I think what happened is that the muslim community feared the ideas of a family that were essentially atheist. I mean the little boy would be told on occasion that he would go to hell because of his lifestyle (can you imagine a little boy even having anything akin to a 'lifestyle'
). He was chastised for eating pork and god only knows what. On the other hand its not easy for the foreigners either, they are being asked to remove their religious symbols and now they are even being deported.
As for Dr. Baker's statements, I agree with some of what she has to say but she is wrong if she believes anyone is going to be disloyal to their own interests. Why doesn't she ask the immigrants to be disloyal to their own economic, social and ideological investments? If she had we would find it an outrageous suggestion right. But this idea that because they are white, or because Europe was invested in imperialism and colonialism (Norway wasn't but whatever) that they no longer have a right to protect their own culture or have some say in how society develops in the future of what is essentially their nation of which the immigrants are invited is not only ludicrous but will lead to further racism and resentment on the part of the indigenous nationals. I am sure for example that if that little boy had remained in that neighborhood school he would have grown up to hate muslims.
I think the parents tried everything, they tried for three years but they were isolated. The mum said she were never once invited to a birthday party or inside anyone's home. It was upsetting for her because as she said if the children cannot figure out this multi-ethnic thing then what hope do the adults have. I think she was counting on the natural openness of children.
I'm only guessing now but I think what happened is that the muslim community feared the ideas of a family that were essentially atheist. I mean the little boy would be told on occasion that he would go to hell because of his lifestyle (can you imagine a little boy even having anything akin to a 'lifestyle'
). He was chastised for eating pork and god only knows what. On the other hand its not easy for the foreigners either, they are being asked to remove their religious symbols and now they are even being deported.As for Dr. Baker's statements, I agree with some of what she has to say but she is wrong if she believes anyone is going to be disloyal to their own interests. Why doesn't she ask the immigrants to be disloyal to their own economic, social and ideological investments? If she had we would find it an outrageous suggestion right. But this idea that because they are white, or because Europe was invested in imperialism and colonialism (Norway wasn't but whatever) that they no longer have a right to protect their own culture or have some say in how society develops in the future of what is essentially their nation of which the immigrants are invited is not only ludicrous but will lead to further racism and resentment on the part of the indigenous nationals. I am sure for example that if that little boy had remained in that neighborhood school he would have grown up to hate muslims.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
The rise of globalization and open borders has seen a surge in support for nationalistic movements across the Nordic region, as uncertainty and fear of the unknown grip sections of society in some of the richest countries in Europe. Parties that press for restrictions on immigration or over Islam’s influence have won seats in parliament in Denmark, Norway, Finland and, since September, Sweden.
Elements of the population have witnessed “a mobilization against Islam and what people perceive as a multicultural society in the Scandinavian countries, and of course a certain type of lunatic is being inspired by these types of ideas,” said Bjereld. Yet “if the party leadership clearly distances itself from what’s happened, it’s very possible that it won’t have any consequences at all” on voter support.
Even though Norway boasts Europe’s lowest jobless rate and biggest budget surplus, it must now acknowledge a threat of violence more usually associated with less stable societies, Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said.
Across the region, “people are uncertain, insecure,” Pasi Saukkonen, a political scientist at the University of Helsinki, said by phone. “Society has changed too fast” for many people. “These parties portray established politicians as corrupt and dishonest and their own policies as offering a real, simple alternative.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-nordic-anti-immigration-parties-support.html
Elements of the population have witnessed “a mobilization against Islam and what people perceive as a multicultural society in the Scandinavian countries, and of course a certain type of lunatic is being inspired by these types of ideas,” said Bjereld. Yet “if the party leadership clearly distances itself from what’s happened, it’s very possible that it won’t have any consequences at all” on voter support.
Even though Norway boasts Europe’s lowest jobless rate and biggest budget surplus, it must now acknowledge a threat of violence more usually associated with less stable societies, Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said.
Across the region, “people are uncertain, insecure,” Pasi Saukkonen, a political scientist at the University of Helsinki, said by phone. “Society has changed too fast” for many people. “These parties portray established politicians as corrupt and dishonest and their own policies as offering a real, simple alternative.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-nordic-anti-immigration-parties-support.html
I don't think she is wrong. In fact, I think you'll find that this is what defines a liberal progressive, fighting for equal opportunities for the disenfranchised, fighting for rights for those who are discriminated against even if you don't agree with them [once upon a time all western education was under the aegis of the Pope and most educational institutions under the church - how do you think education became secular? Why did the friars and monks of Oxford open their doors to non-Christians?] - fighting for the civil rights of those who do not conform to society - e.g. civil marriage for those who are not religiously inclined, gay marriage in societies where historically marriage is defined as between man and woman. Fighting for the freedom of those subject to slavery or colonialism. All these were actions which required the mainstream empowered group to "betray their own kind" and put some other group forward. We've just reached the next threshold of that battle
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
So asking white people not to behave in ways that secure their best interests is helping the disenfranchised?:bugeye:
Asking them to be 'heroic race traitors' is good? I can't agree with that. This does nothing to help immigrants, it just fuels what right wing groups already perceive as threatening. Just read post#27. The reason they have this problem to begin with is because they forced multiculturalism, the backlash is that you now have societies where racism and discrimination was unheard of becoming racist. You have intolerance growing where formerly there was none. People have the right to decide whether they are willing to accept foreigners into their country, I mean Norway isn't Australia, Canada the US or India.
Yeah I get that, but this is what it happens to be. Some people are afraid of change but change is inevitable. Its upto the people who are empowered to make the change wholesome and beneficial to all or restrict the benefits to this or that in group. Sometimes I wonder what exactly people are defending and if they even know what they mean when they talk about culture.
That is funny you bring up Community Centers . See right there is a cultural divide in Life style . Were as a person of colors culture revolves around its community and community centers are a necessary function of communing . Gatherings are of up most importance just for the reason of community bonding . White culture has a hard time understanding this as they lead more and more of there life in isolation from each other . It is not natural to the human species to isolate like that . We are pushed to that end by White Culture of consumption. Thank god we have the internet or I might be living in a card board box in Lincoln Montana at Ted Kasinsky's old property. Now my son was not a minority , but he was invited to his Muslim girl friends birthday party , He was 6 or 7 at the time . We had a great time and the games were great . I tell you what the Mom was the most fun of all . What a character she was. She would yell out with that trill noise they do with the tongue. It was good times yes indeed . I was surprised how her husband didn't ride herd on her . She wore a Burqa too . She was from Lebanon and he was from Syria . All part of the multicultural student exchange program . Trading kids like the old days Lucy . Hey Hey history does repeat . Does that mean sense I tied it in to the context I can keep some of my flesh from you . Maybe I could just give you a Half a pound of flesh
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
How can you restrict the benefits of the majority? I mean they are the majority. What you have now are stricter laws limiting immigration. You have France sending back their Romany. You have Denmark asking anyone on the street who looks foreign for their papers. Norway introducing laws where a foreigner isn't given instant citizenship, break one law and its proposed foreigners be deported. This isn't progress this is a disaster. I mean you have Merkel standing up in public saying 'Its an utter failure'. And then you have an african american academic asking how you can get a mostly homogenized white nation to stop being guarding their culture. Its crazy! I don't think its going to happen. She's chosen to attach immigration to the larger issue of global European imperialism and colonialism which is fine from a purely academic point of view. It doesn't mean jack on the ground. Norwegians would probably maintain that they were neither imperialistic nor colonial and that they are being penalized for merely being white.
Instead of dominance we could try exchange . Its a small world after all Its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small small world .
Ever go to Disney Land ? Some of Me relatives would cry on that amusement ride every time. I get a little tear my self when I hear the song
If you look at the world as one world White culture is not the majority . Only in the isolated world of white people it is . There is a big world out there besides white people. A world kept on its knees by white culture of consumerism rapped up with a green bow on the package . What is the best interests of that culture . Flat screen T.V.s and better drugs ? Whips and porn shops with marijuana bars to boot. The best bicycle money can buy
Ever go to Disney Land ? Some of Me relatives would cry on that amusement ride every time. I get a little tear my self when I hear the song
If you look at the world as one world White culture is not the majority . Only in the isolated world of white people it is . There is a big world out there besides white people. A world kept on its knees by white culture of consumerism rapped up with a green bow on the package . What is the best interests of that culture . Flat screen T.V.s and better drugs ? Whips and porn shops with marijuana bars to boot. The best bicycle money can buy
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Actually, there was a quite debate to add the clause to tht effect of "and founded on Christian principles" to the EU constitution.
I don't know what the current standard is, but the debate around that comes up every now and then.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
@Me-Ki-Gal
What rubbish! Scandinavians have always had community. They were tribal so everything was built around community.
What rubbish! Scandinavians have always had community. They were tribal so everything was built around community.
Yeah which is why they get to make the decisions. Even if they weren't the majority, they might still be the empowered minority and get to make the decisions.
How would you restrict their benefits? By providing opportunities for those with less access. Think WASPs letting Jews and blacks into Ivy League institutions. Many societies do this without realising it, e.g. most immigration into western nations is because they have a population replacement problem plus a vacuum in their labour industry so they invite immigrants to benefit from their infrastructure in return for their labour or services. The alternative would be to diminish as a society which is unacceptable to even the most stringent right winger
I agree with you that they should limit immigration if they feel threatened but unless they change as a society, they will still face the problems that required immigration in the first place.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
But it is founded on Christian beliefs but so what. What beliefs would you like them to utilize? Buddhist? Islam? If we were discussing Asia people would be losing their minds if it was suggested that they should somehow move away from their traditions.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
What people tend to forget is that these countries made room for immigrants, it was only when issues of integration came up was it deemed a failure. How can they be blamed for not providing access when they have the most progressive social welfare programs in the world? They have housing, medical, schools, they get a handsome public assistance. I agree that these immigrants arrived to fill a vacuum in the labour industry. The question is how can they build inclusiveness. Inclusiveness should not be the sole responsibility of the host society, the immigrants have to change to and adopt a new national identity and culture. This last bit is where I think the problem lies. In the US people for the most part are allowed their own pockets within society, parallel societies. But in a nation that is largely homogenized and where there is a strong base culture this becomes a problem.
Around here in Europe, European academia is known for living high up in the clouds ...
No not really. The caste system is thousands of years old. It is entrenched deeply into "Indian culture" - like sati and child marriage. So should we stick to it? I think not and most educated Indians will agree
I read something in Jewcy that I think is relevant here: