Motor Daddy's absolute space and time

[Motor Daddy]

You are wrong and do not understand the postulate. It is really very simple to understand. The speed of light in a vacuum is always measure as c, for every observer. That is the crux of it; the speed of light in a vacuum is ALWAYS measured as c BY EVERY OBSERVER. So if you were observing a source that is moving at 100,000 km/sec and it emited a pulse of light the light would move out from the source of the pulse at c. After 1 second the pulse of light would be a sphere 300,000 km in diameter with the center at the point at which the light was pulsed. In that on second the source would have moved 100,000 km. Therefore the source would be 200,000 km from the edge of the light sphere in the direction of travel and 400,000 km from the edge of the source in the opposite direction. If the sphere of light were to somehow(?) move with the source, then the expanding sphere of light would exceed c in the direction of travel!

It must be incredibly difficult to argue against a theory when you do not even understand it's most basic tenets! :shrug:

It's Einstein who says the sphere of light travels with the source as the sphere expands. He has to be saying that if he thinks the light sphere always hits the x,y, and z receivers simultaneously in a box in space.

You measure it once and it hits simultaneously. You accelerate the box to a different constant velocity and retest, and guess what? Einstein says you get the same exact results, the light sphere reaches all the receivers at the same exact time again! It's like magic!! No matter what velocity you accelerate the box to, Einstein says you get the same exact results.
This is how it works in reality:

 

[Pincho Paxton]

It's Einstein who says the sphere of light travels with the source as the sphere expands. He has to be saying that if he thinks the light sphere always hits the x,y, and z receivers simultaneously in a box in space.

You measure it once and it hits simultaneously. You accelerate the box to a different constant velocity and retest, and guess what? Einstein says you get the same exact results, the light sphere reaches all the receivers at the same exact time again! It's like magic!! No matter what velocity you accelerate the box to, Einstein says you get the same exact results.

Earth is moving very fast, and you can turn the lights on in your house, and the colour isn't shifted.

 

[origin]

It's Einstein who says the sphere of light travels with the source as the sphere expands. He has to be saying that if he thinks the light sphere always hits the x,y, and z receivers simultaneously in a box in space.

You measure it once and it hits simultaneously. You accelerate the box to a different constant velocity and retest, and guess what? Einstein says you get the same exact results, the light sphere reaches all the receivers at the same exact time again! It's like magic!! No matter what velocity you accelerate the box to, Einstein says you get the same exact results.

You are ignorant and confused on the theory and on actual measurements. You are unteachable.:shrug:

 

[Motor Daddy]

You are ignorant and confused on the theory and on actual measurements. You are unteachable.:shrug:

You can't even start by defining the term "at rest." You have NOTHING to base your claim on. You just randomly pick a velocity of 0 and say the object always has a zero velocity? You test, get a result, I attach a rocket and accelerate you to a different velocity, you retest and get the same result. You are saying the light sphere travels with you while it is expanding, which is impossible!

 

[origin]

You can't even start by defining the term "at rest." You have NOTHING to base your claim on. You just randomly pick a velocity of 0 and say the object always has a zero velocity? You test, get a result, I attach a rocket and accelerate you to a different velocity, you retest and get the same result. You are saying the light sphere travels with you while it is expanding, which is impossible!

Unfortuantely my only response is again: You are ignorant and confused on the theory and on actual measurements. You are unteachable.

Carry on MD, I am done, you have shown you never quit and never learn.

 

[Motor Daddy]

Earth is moving very fast, and you can turn the lights on in your house, and the colour isn't shifted.

Yeah, and if I throw baseballs at you at the rate of 1 per second they hit you at the rate of 1 per second.

Question. How much time did it take for the first baseball to hit you from the time I released it until the time it hit you, and what distance did the ball travel?

Do you know what frequency is?

Do you know the relationship between torque and hp?

How much torque is 500 HP? At 1,000 RPM? At 5,000 RPM?

 

[Motor Daddy]

Unfortuantely my only response is again: You are ignorant and confused on the theory and on actual measurements. You are unteachable.

Carry on MD, I am done, you have shown you never quit and never learn.

Of course that's your only response, because you can't explain it. That's what people do when they can't explain something they believe to be true, they quit and revert to insults.

 

[origin]

Of course that's your only response, because you can't explain it. That's what people do when they can't explain something they believe to be true, they quit and revert to insults.

One last comment.
It is more like when you put your money in a vending machine and it eats your money and doesn't give you anything - I tend to smack it or kick it to see if I can get it to work. You are like that; you are given useful information and nothing comes out of you except inane garbage, so I kick you to see if I can get you to work - eventually I realize all that will happen is my foot will hurt - you're just broken and we need to accept it.:shrug:

 

[Motor Daddy]

One last comment.

So you lied?

It is more like when you put your money in a vending machine and it eats your money and doesn't give you anything - I tend to smack it or kick it to see if I can get it to work. You are like that; you are given useful information and nothing comes out of you except inane garbage, so I kick you to see if I can get you to work - eventually I realize all that will happen is my foot will hurt - you're just broken and we need to accept it.:shrug:

1. Here's a tip for you: Machines don't eat money, crackers, or pizza. You are suffering from relativistic illusions, brought on by your inability to cope with reality. I suggest you either seek professional help, or at the very least stop feeding the machines.

2. It's against the law to tamper with or destroy vending machines. Not only that, they have been known to fall on people and kill them. I suggest you stop breaking the law and stop kicking and beating on the machines. You may end up in jail, or worse, dead.

3. Garbage in garbage out. You try to pass off your garbage as reality then you should expect reality to kick you back. When you stop living in Einstein's world of illusions and start living in MD's world of reality then you will be on the right track to understanding the universe. Until then you're just another blind person being led by a theory created for the blind, where illusions are trump and reality is sparse.

 

[Grumpy]

Motor Daddy

It's Einstein who says the sphere of light travels with the source as the sphere expands.

You are saying the light sphere travels with you while it is expanding, which is impossible!

No. Einstein says that all light expands at light speed FROM THE POINT IN SPACETIME WHERE IT WAS EMITTED. After the light leaves the source, the source has no further influence on those photons and the source moves on(if it is moving)on it's own independent path through space time. If the source is travelling at relativistic speed it will move closer to one edge of the sphere of photons it emitted in the past. But every pulse of light expands uniformly from it's point of emmission. Light is not a physical structure you can tow behind you like in water or air, no wake is created in spacetime, the circle designates the position of the sphere of photons in spacetime, it is not a physical wave(as in a medium)and once released from a source the source has no further influence(except to change it's frequency due to gravitational lensing).

You can't even start by defining the term "at rest."

You are(by definition)at rest in your own frame, as is every other observer in the Universe. That's as at rest as reality comes. It was just this thought that caused Einstein to see that all frames see themselves at rest, all frames measure the fundamental principles of the Universe exactly the same. All frames of reference see other frames as the ones moving RELATIVE to his own frame. This is the core of RELATIVITY, it's called INVARIANCE.

Yeah, and if I throw baseballs at you at the rate of 1 per second they hit you at the rate of 1 per second.

If you throw a baseball directly at me every second none of them will hit me, I will just walk around in a circle and by the time the baseballs reach where I was I will be elsewhere, once you release the baseball it goes in a straight line away from that point(more or less), in the time it takes to get to where you aimed(IE where I was when you aimed it directly at me), I will have taken another step away from that point. Same goes for a fire hose, by the way.

Aqueous Id

My basic training in SR and GR came back in the 70s, but I have tried to remain current. So my own level would be as an informed(and no doubt, uninformed at times)amateur with real problems dealing with the math, I'll accept any serious, on topic discussion.

Motor Daddy, again you have shown no willingness to speak coherently on the subject of Relativity. There's a whole section on this forum for you to discuss your obviously unfounded theories and understandings, do it there. If you have specific disagreements with our well established understanding of Relativity bring them up one at a time, but your crank theories are not to be posted here. I corrected your basic misunderstanding in the above, these are the facts, incorporate them into your discussion or go elsewhere.

Grumpy

 

[Motor Daddy]

Motor Daddy





No. Einstein says that all light expands at light speed FROM THE POINT IN SPACETIME WHERE IT WAS EMITTED. After the light leaves the source, the source has no further influence on those photons and the source moves on(if it is moving)on it's own independent path through space time. If the source is travelling at relativistic speed it will move closer to one edge of the sphere of photons it emitted in the past. But every pulse of light expands uniformly from it's point of emmission. Light is not a physical structure you can tow behind you like in water or air, no wake is created in spacetime, the circle designates the position of the sphere of photons in spacetime, it is not a physical wave(as in a medium)and once released from a source the source has no further influence(except to change it's frequency due to gravitational lensing).



You are(by definition)at rest in your own frame, as is every other observer in the Universe. That's as at rest as reality comes. It was just this thought that caused Einstein to see that all frames see themselves at rest, all frames measure the fundamental principles of the Universe exactly the same. All frames of reference see other frames as the ones moving RELATIVE to his own frame. This is the core of RELATIVITY, it's called INVARIANCE.



If you throw a baseball directly at me every second none of them will hit me, I will just walk around in a circle and by the time the baseballs reach where I was I will be elsewhere, once you release the baseball it goes in a straight line away from that point(more or less), in the time it takes to get to where you aimed(IE where I was when you aimed it directly at me), I will have taken another step away from that point. Same goes for a fire hose, by the way.

Aqueous Id

My basic training in SR and GR came back in the 70s, but I have tried to remain current. So my own level would be as an informed(and no doubt, uninformed at times)amateur with real problems dealing with the math, I'll accept any serious, on topic discussion.

Motor Daddy, again you have shown no willingness to speak coherently on the subject of Relativity. There's a whole section on this forum for you to discuss your obviously unfounded theories and understandings, do it there. If you have specific disagreements with our well established understanding of Relativity bring them up one at a time, but your crank theories are not to be posted here. I corrected your basic misunderstanding in the above, these are the facts, incorporate them into your discussion or go elsewhere.

Grumpy

My position is WELL stated in the two diagrams. If you wish to address the real issues then address the diagrams. Otherwise, you are just misrepresenting what I am saying.

I know light spheres expand from the point of origin at the rate of c. That is clearly defined in my diagrams. I have math, pics, and I have explained it, ALL mainstream math and science, so my theory is not some illusion with funny math. I use the very definitions of the meter and speed of light. No funny length contraction, time dilation, unfounded "at rest" etc..

You tell me why you disagree with my mainstream diagrams, and where I go wrong.

 

[AlexG]

It's not that MD can't understand relativity, it's just that he totally denies it. MD has a not uncommon ability to ignore 100 years of experimental results and observation in favor of his imaginings. You can't teach him because he refuses to accept reality.

Always remember, MD lives in a different universe than the rest of us.

 

[Grumpy]

Motor Daddy

You are not here to present your theory(which is not mainstream, it is crank woo), we are not here to discuss it and you know nothing of Relativity(it shows in the ignorance displayed in your statements and questions). This is a part of the forum for discussing what science has actually found to be true, not the religion you have made of your own opinions about that science. If you cannot or will not desist that makes you a troll. If I want to read non-sense presentations of just how badly a human can misunderstand what Relativity says, I will come to the section of this forum that deals with crank theories and look you up.

Grumpy

 

[Motor Daddy]

Motor Daddy

You are not here to present your theory(which is not mainstream, it is crank woo), we are not here to discuss it and you know nothing of Relativity(it shows in the ignorance displayed in your statements and questions). This is a part of the forum for discussing what science has actually found to be true, not the religion you have made of your own opinions about that science. If you cannot or will not desist that makes you a troll. If I want to read non-sense presentations of just how badly a human can misunderstand what Relativity says, I will come to the section of this forum that deals with crank theories and look you up.

Grumpy

So answer my questions about relativity and stop beating around the bush. You are making claims that you can't define, much less support.

How do you support the claim that if you are in a box in space, that the box is considered "at rest?"

At rest compared to what, itself?

 

[Grumpy]

Motor Daddy

My position is WELL stated in the two diagrams.

YOUR position and YOUR diagrams do not belong in this thread.

How do you support the claim that if you are in a box in space, that the box is considered "at rest?"

At rest compared to what, itself?

That is what the science behind Relativity is based on, and every experiment to date has confirmed the validity of that science, as I said earlier...

You are(by definition)at rest in your own frame, as is every other observer in the Universe. That's as at rest as reality comes. It was just this thought that caused Einstein to see that all frames see themselves at rest, all frames measure the fundamental principles of the Universe exactly the same. All frames of reference see other frames as the ones moving RELATIVE to his own frame. This is the core of RELATIVITY, it's called INVARIANCE.

...these postulates have proven to be true in every instance, these are now considered facts, you don't accept facts, therefore you are a religion of one, enamoured of your own opinions, which do not have the support that 100+ years of science conducted in Relativity has, thus the thread full of your crankyness is in the section of this forum reserved just for people like you so some people who wish to discuss what actually has been shown by science will not have their thread disrupted by trollish behavior like that we have had just about enough of from you.

Grumpy

 

[Motor Daddy]

That is what the science behind Relativity is based on, and every experiment to date has confirmed the validity of that science, as I said earlier...

So basically, the "God did it" approach?

Saying a box in space is "at rest" in it's own frame is like saying I am motionless compared to myself. I am not asking you if you are having an out of body experience that you can measure and document, I am asking you if you are traveling in space, not if you are traveling in you. I am asking you how fast the bus is going, not how fast you walk from the front of the bus to the back of the bus.

I am asking you to tell me the motion of the box in space, and you are responding by saying the box doesn't move compared to itself. How COULD the box move compared to itself??? You don't even know what you are saying.

 

[Pincho Paxton]

Are you saying that if the box is moving at the speed of light that the light will never hit the front wall?

 

[Motor Daddy]

Are you saying that if the box is moving at the speed of light that the light will never hit the front wall?

Yes.

 

[Grumpy]

Motor Daddy

Saying a box in space is "at rest" in it's own frame is like saying I am motionless compared to myself.

Well, Duh! It is your Frame of Reference(your frame). And if you sit down with the proper equipment and a little learnin', you too could prove that in your frame of reference all the properties of the Universe(speed of time's passage, speed of light, length, breadth and width, etc)are exactly what science says they are after much evidence gatherin', testin' and figurin'.

I am asking you if you are traveling in space

For that to be determined you must observe other frames and determine their properties relative to those of your frame. The determination about whether you are moving in relationship to them, or vice versa, is an intellectual one. If you were in mostly empty space and saw an asteroid pass close by, you would probably think it's the meteor that was moving, but what if you were on the way to Jupiter and what really happened, in the frame of the Solar System as a whole, is you just zoomed by the asteroid at high speed. And if you were in orbit around the Earth your mind would interpret that as you doing the moving. It's all relative.

Sorry, that's all the coherent questions I could salvage from your post.

Grumpy

 

[Grumpy]

origin

I'm stubborn, old, grumpy and persistent, though I'm not always right. If MD wants questions answered I will do my best, when he posts non-sense diagrams and woo I will ignore them but will not ignore the violations of the forum posting rules.

Eventually the thread will either clear up or be abandoned but I got nothin' better to do.

Grumpy