Moron christians cling to Alabama Ten

Originally posted by kajolishot
Yes, it seems that the American Republic was meant to be god-free. Rather, it was hijacked by homicidal bomber christians.
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Loved the quotes.

I would add though that I don't really see a problem with "god" in government. "god" isn't that big of a deal. "god" is a universal concept. It's when you start talking about "the bible" that you get in trouble. You are then sanctioning the basis for a variety of religions, that is exactly unconstitutional.
 
Originally posted by truth
How is the presence of the 10 Commandments an endorsement of religion?
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That endorses the bible. Most western religions are based on this book. If you endorse the bible in the name of defending your right to worship, you favor a religion. As a public official, you shouldn't be allowed to do that.

You can hold whatever private opinion you'd like but if your personal conviction regarding your religious beliefs subjectively outweighs your responsibilities as a public official, you are simply unqualified to hold the office of judge.
Originally posted by truth

It essentially formed the basis of many current laws.
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A case can be made in that direction and it probably has a bit of merit, but show me the law that is based on "I am the lord your god, who brought you out of hte land of egypt, out of hte house of bondage. you shall have no other gods before me" or "you shall not take the name of the lord your god in vain" and I'll show you a violation of the constitution and worse, something that's just plain stupid. Worship your own shit for all I care, but if you expect me to worship it with you.. you'll be dissappointed.
Originally posted by truth

Regardless of religious or non-religious persuasion, nine of the ten are pretty much common sense, sound advice, or are the law now. Would it make a difference if it was called 10 Pretty Good Ideas?
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Bullshit. Justify "You shall not covet". Hell man, coveting is the basis for consumerism which in turn drives our economy. What about the two I mentioned above? Why the sabbath? Who cares about some graven image? Maybe 5 of the commandments are worthy, but they could be combined a bit. George Carlin did an excellent bit on this one: check it out!
Originally posted by truth

I do not believe in governmental endorsement of a religion, that is a person's inherent right to choose. But this is just making a mountain out of a mole hill.
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I don't think so. I think this judge is a fundy and as such unqualified to "judge" anyone. What a piece of shit. Makes me sick to think of it.
 
The funny thing

is that the ten commandments aren't christian in the least. For someone everyone, including christians, forget that. that was a covenant to the jewish people. not christians. they didn't exist. christ said i bring you a new covenant.

That is beside the point.

here is the problem as i see it. everyone can say seperation of church and state as much as they want, but it simply isn't true. Come on people, how does the pledge of allegience go? What does the president swear on? What have most courts used to swear in witnesses until recently? How did that little swear in cerimony go? the so help me god has been dropped recently, but it was there for a long time. What about the marines? notice their little slogan: God*Country*Corps..Semper Fi

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/priorservice/godcouncorca.html

The christian religion may not be "officially"part of the government, but it was there from the begining. I'm not saying that i advocate what the judge in bama has done, but its not a new thing. The common belief that this is a christian issue just shows the ignorance of everyone involved.
 
It is a Christian issue because the Christians consider it a Christian issue.

"Under god" in the pledge, "In God We Trust" on money, swearing on a bible in court; all of these need to go the way of the Dodo bird.
Either public religious displays include all religions, or none of them.

Getting rid of this monument is only a step in the right direction. And a breath of fresh air in country that seems increasingly insane to me.
 
Either public religious displays include all religions, or none of them.

Exactly!

I have a problem with the term "god", wes, because it immediately alienates polytheists.



All of this remindes me of whites' disobedience when the courts ordered the schools to be desegregated. Alas, round and round we go.


On the side note, does anyone see the decline of America approach? I see it more and more every day.
And it is not by muslim evildoers. It is by the one and the same "patriotic" american.
 
It is laughable how so many of you think having mention of religion or religious symbols in government offices is going to destroy the nation. Those religious symbols have been there for the last 227 years with no significant difference being made. Hells bells we can swear on a can of campbells soup if we want. We can build shrines to soup, worship it, decorate the cans with lights and put them on the Judge's bench, but nothing will change anything about the way the law is applied.

Praise chicken soup and pass the ammunition.
 
Originally posted by truth
How is the presence of the 10 Commandments an endorsement of religion? It essentially formed the basis of many current laws. Regardless of religious or non-religious persuasion, nine of the ten are pretty much common sense, sound advice, or are the law now. Would it make a difference if it was called 10 Pretty Good Ideas?
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You could make a semi-reasonable argument along those lines, but that isn't what Justice Moore is doing. Throughout the entire legal battle surrounding the monument, Moore has said that his purpose is to "proclaim the sovereignty of the Christian God." He isn't even pretending that there's any secular significance to the monument.
Or do you not understand, read it again.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
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The Supreme Court has (wisely) interpreted the establishment clause in the constitution to mean that the government cannot use its power to promote or hinder a religion in any way, not just through enacting legislation. There are all sorts of ways that the government could 'encourage' people to join some particular religion without actually making laws. Putting a monument to one a particular religion in, say, a courthouse would be a good example.
 
Re: The funny thing

Originally posted by Mephura
I'm not saying that i advocate what the judge in bama has done, but its not a new thing
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Well, that's for sure but shouln't we eventually get around to addressing it? I honestly don't care THAT much but state endorsement of a particular religion and I assume by extension) a group of religions is a constitutional violation. If the ten commandments can be shown to endorse a religion then tablets shouldn't be there.
Originally posted by Mephura
The common belief that this is a christian issue just shows the ignorance of everyone involved.
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While the origin of the commandments may be of non-christian origin, they encorporated it into their belief system and promote it as their doctrine. Government adoption of that type of doctrine based on the fact that it is from a "holy text" is innappropriate. I think regardless of the ignorance as to the origins of the commandments, the objection to having them in a court house eludes to necessary adherence to them.

I suppose the question is entirely whether or not they are religious?

What is the evidence that it is?

I'd say that four of them (or so depending on the version I guess?) are based on god.

(while that alone isn't necessarily justification to reject them...)

They have been adopted by the bible (generally associated directly with christians e.g. bible thumpers) as religious doctrine.

They are promoted by religions (which makes the common experience of them as religious).

Shit man I lost my steam all of the sudden. Tooooooo tired. More later.
 
Originally posted by kajolishot
On the side note, does anyone see the decline of America approach? I see it more and more every day.
And it is not by muslim evildoers. It is by the one and the same "patriotic" american.
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This sort of thing has happened every five or ten years for the past century. I'd hardly call it a sign of the united states declining. It's more a sign that Alabama is fully of crazy religious fundis. Unfortunately there isn't much that can be done in a federal system when the majority of the people in a state are crazy.
 
justiceusa
It is laughable how so many of you think having mention of religion or religious symbols in government offices is going to destroy the nation.

Isn't promoting one religion over another going to destroy the nation? You cannot see why that would happen? Try being the minority, especially a religious minority in a religious nation.

But, I said decline not destruction of America. A decline because now you have an official state religion EVEN THOUGH the law of the land states you shall not have one.

Make no mistake about it, this damn stupid excuse for a judge, Moore, wishes just that.

Besides if you actually read the entire thread you would not be asking such a redundent question.
 
Originally posted by Mephura
Come on wes, you can do it...
You were on a roll there. Don't stop now..
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If you read his response to (anti)truth at the very top of this page, you will see.

The common belief that this is a christian issue just shows the ignorance of everyone involved
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http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7115.asp

Let us recall why America was founded...why Europeans fled Europe to come to America.

If America was founded as a religious nation, then it was doomed before it even began.
 
Originally posted by kajolishot


If America was founded as a religious nation, then it was doomed before it even began.
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How would America be doomed if founded as a religious nation? Regardless of what the courts have interpreted, the idea about proscribing government endorsement of religion was a reaction to the Church of England as the prescribed religion under the English. The idea that God was not to be a part of this country by the Founding Fathers is not true. There are statements to the contrary. I think everyone will agree that religion can be taken to far, by any religion. Frankly, I feel that religion has been a great thing in this country, but in no way be forced on anyone. God was an integral part of the founding and building of this country.
 
The latest


- Reports, Staff and Wire. "Alabama chief justice suspended". MSNBC News. August 22, 2003. see - http://www.msnbc.com/news/954934.asp?0si=-

The chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court was suspended Friday pending an ethics investigation for his defiance of a federal judge’s order that he remove a monument to the Ten Commandments from the rotunda of the state judicial building . . . .

. . . . CHIEF JUSTICE Roy Moore’s actions next face a hearing before the state Court of the Judiciary after the Judicial Inquiry Commission found merit in a complaint by Montgomery lawyer Stephen Glassroth that Moore violated ethics rules by ignoring U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson’s order.

Moore, who was suspended with pay, had no immediate comment. He has 30 days to respond to the Court of the Judiciary, which holds trial-like proceedings and can discipline and remove judges.

Moore met with the Judicial Inquiry Commission earlier as about 100 of his supporters, several blocks away at the federal courthouse, ripped and burned a copy of Thompson’s order. Thompson threatened to impose $5,000-a-day fines against the state if Moore left the monument in the rotunda.
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I've probably missed a detail in here somewhere ... is the physical area under such control of Moore's court that the State Patrol cannot oversee the forcible removal of the monument?

Anyway, let's hear it for the protesters:

"What do we want?"
Supremacy!
"When do we want it?"
From here to eternity!

"All we are saying is Give Us Our Rights. All we are saying is that We Are Supreme. All we are saying is Give Us our Due. All we are saying is You All Owe Us. All we are saying is Oppress For Us. All we are saying is Screw Everyone!"
 
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How would America be doomed if founded as a religious nation? Regardless of what the courts have interpreted, the idea about proscribing government endorsement of religion was a reaction to the Church of England as the prescribed religion under the English. The idea that God was not to be a part of this country by the Founding Fathers is not true. There are statements to the contrary. I think everyone will agree that religion can be taken to far, by any religion. Frankly, I feel that religion has been a great thing in this country, but in no way be forced on anyone. God was an integral part of the founding and building of this country.

Because, truth, I feel the 'founding fathers' would not set up a type of government that they ran away from - chiefly a christian, or vaguely a religious system.

Moreover, you see no problem with religion in state? Then do not go tits-up about muslim state fusion with religion. People that are pro state+church are hypocrites and when time comes to blame the arab world for its radicalism they blame Islam and it's fusion with the Muslim statehood.

Besides, explain to me how a state endorsed religious church would allow other rival religions to certain unalienable rights? Not to mention the justice system.

Also, our leaders invoke the term 'god' a lot. It's great for popularity polls because your numbers go up. But looking back at America with christian ideology makes me giggle. Stupid politicians.
 
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Now that this moronic excuse of a law-enforcing judge is suspended can we expect to wake up to the news that south is again leaving the Union?

:D
 
Have any of you noticed his (Moore's) hair plug job on TV?
I guess his prayers to god to restore his hairline went unanswered.

Nothing fails like prayer.

Speaking of the south:
HUNTSVILLE, AL—For the 135th straight year since Gen. Robert E. Lee's surrender at Appomattox, representatives for the South announced Monday that the region has postponed plans to rise again.

"Make no mistake, the South shall rise again," said Knox Pritchard, president of the Huntsville-based Alliance Of Confederate States. "But we're just not quite ready to do it now. Hopefully, we'll be able to rise again real soon, maybe even in 2001."

Pritchard's fellow Southerners shared his confidence.

"Yes, sir. The South will rise again, and when it does, I'll be right up front waving the Stars and Bars," said Dock Mullins of Decatur, GA. "But first, I gotta get my truck fixed and get that rusty old stove out of my yard."

"Lord willing, and the creek don't rise, we gonna rise again," said Sumter, SC, radiator technician Hap Slidell, who describes himself as "Southern by the grace of God." "I don't know exactly when we're gonna do it, but one of these days, we're gonna show them Yankees how it's done."
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More;http://www.theonion.com/onion3613/south_postpones.html
south_postpones_rising.gif

Above: Three of the estimated 45 million Southerners who have not yet gotten around to rising again.
 
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Once again, common sense beats southern fundies. It's always nice when democracy gets something right…
 
Originally posted by Nasor
Once again, common sense beats southern fundies. It's always nice when democracy gets something right…
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They were correct in suspending him, otherwise the rule of law fails.

BTW, the US is a Republic.
 
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