Morality is a religious construct?

S.A.M.

S.A.M.

uniquely dreadful
Valued Senior Member
Most ideas of right and wrong, reward and punishment, acceptance and rejection in many societies have a basis in the religious culture.

This being so, why would an atheist believe in morality? If there is no accountability, why should anyone be "good" or "bad"?

An animal does what it can to survive; there is no "murder" or "theft" or "rape" or "infanticide".

So why should there be ANY standard of behaviour for humans?

No trolling please; I would really like to discuss the topic (Jimmy, this is for you) from an atheists point of view.
 
You've got it backwards. People beget religion, not the other way around and morality is a concept derived from interaction.

There are many tribes and societies that form thier codes of conduct if you actually paid attention and they are not all xians and mooslims. Geez

Why we're not exactly like lower animals is called the development of the brain(laughs) and we can see how self-control and other developed traits can further our evolution. Animals DO have standards of behavior if you paid any attention to thier structure. One OBVIOUS point is they usually don't practice cannibalism or at least more evolved animals.
 
peta9 said:
You've got it backwards. People beget religion, not the other way around and morality is a concept derived from interaction.

There are many tribes and societies that form thier codes of conduct if you actually paid attention and they are not all xians and mooslims. Geez

Why we're not exactly like lower animals is called the development of the brain(laughs) and we can see how self-control and other developed traits can further our evolution. Animals DO have standards of behavior if you paid any attention to thier structure. One OBVIOUS point is they usually don't practice cannibalism or at least more evolved animals.
Click to expand...

Are any of them without religion? And you apparently haven't kept up with the literature. :)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0410_030410_cannibal.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism#Modern_era

Are animal standards of behaviour related to morality or ethics?
 
Cheetahs won't eat something that they didn't kill, although that probably has more to do with the unhealthiness of it. Great apes show some sense of morality. Also, have you read the Republic?
 
Moral behavior is evolved, religion only reflects it and codifies it. It comes from being social animals.
 
Yes, as has been mentioned, this is behavior we see in apes. We also see murder and violence. If religion generated a moral society, there would be no need for punishment.
 
Besides, you could have a religion founded on immorality.

[enc]MYUU[/enc]
 
samcdkey said:
Most ideas of right and wrong, reward and punishment, acceptance and rejection in many societies have a basis in the religious culture.
This being so, why would an atheist believe in morality? If there is no accountability, why should anyone be "good" or "bad"?
Click to expand...

Not believe in; if you want humans to survive, you have to understand morality is essential for human survival and you should behave nicely. If you don't care about humankind's future but just want to live happy yourself, you should obey the laws (and probably behave nicely because you feel good) otherwise you will go to jail. If you don't care about yourself or humankind, you can do whatever you want.
 
Roman said:
The same reason theists behave morally; punishment.
Click to expand...

Let me elaborate.
Theists behave as wickedly as atheists. Theism is by no means an indicator of morality. The reason why most atheists behave 'morally' (which is entirely subjective to culture, btw), is the same as why most theists behave morally. To fit in and not get punished by the community. To say that theists behave morally because of their imaginary skylord is to ignore the fact that theists lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder, pillage, plunder, whenever they get the chance, ie, whenever there isn't a wordly force preventing them.
 
Roman said:
Let me elaborate.
The reason why most atheists behave 'morally' (which is entirely subjective to culture, btw), is the same as why most theists behave morally. To fit in and not get punished by the community.
Click to expand...
The only thing I'd want to add to this is that, by the time they've reached a certain age - early teens, I'd suggest - most people have internalised the laws and moral imperatives of their societies. The pressure to conform from this point on comes as much from within as without.

However: I think, left at that, this analysis is a bit overdeterministic. I'm not convinced that 'good' behaviour is driven entirely by fear of punishment. Empathy with others plays a large part in stable adults. The ability to feel fear, pain and distress gives us an insight into how others will feel in a similar situation. No doubt it's intertwined with fear of punishment/retaliation on the one hand, and avoidance of guilt/maintaining a good self-image on the other but I do think that some people are capable of altruism, just as some are capable of acts of great 'evil'. People are complex and capable of conformity in some circumstances and rebellion in others. Often one set of moral ideas conflicts with another, and in these circumstances we have a choice to make. It does us an injustice to suggest that we swallow and follow wholesale the moral rules we learn in childhood without question or any kind of internal (or external) debate.

And no morality isn't 'a religious construct'; like religion itself, it's a social one.
 
A simple way of understanding morality is pay attention to your interaction with your pets and vice versa. Do they try to eat you? attack you? Or do they see you as family and exhibit natural inclinations to cooperation with you? Do they expect you to mistreat them? No. Are they christian? muslim? atheist? No. It has nothing to do with religion, morality is natural. You don't need a book to tell you what you like or dislike. The concepts you form are then transferred to paper and the written word is a snapshot of the mind or moral values of those who wrote it. Simple.

The problem with morality is when its misunderstood as being outside of oneself or control. Morality should and can evolve just like any type of awareness. The development of empathy and other types of awareness is a product of this evolution.
 
Last edited:
samcdkey:

samcdkey said:
Most ideas of right and wrong, reward and punishment, acceptance and rejection in many societies have a basis in the religious culture.
Click to expand...

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Religious culture has a basis in ideas of morality, which pre-exist for a number of complex reasons.

This being so, why would an atheist believe in morality? If there is no accountability, why should anyone be "good" or "bad"?
Click to expand...

Lots of reasons. Self-interest is just one. "Do unto others... just in case they do unto you."

An animal does what it can to survive; there is no "murder" or "theft" or "rape" or "infanticide".
Click to expand...

Not conceptualised in quite that way, no.
 
But there are all of those actions; I would think human motivation runs in the same way.
 
Atheists generally get their moral standards from the society they are part of.

These societies often have laws, rules, and cultural norms that originated from religious beliefs.

Hence, one could argue that atheists do follow a religious code of morality. They have just subtracted the God.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top