Monotheists - I have some questions

Are all atheist drug dealing murdering rapist? I certainly hope not. But if this is all there is why not have as much fun as you can? Why should you regard the feelings of others at all? I believe that there is a power out there that I refer to as god. I believe that he guides me in my daily life through prayer. I really do not follow him for earthly rewards but out of a reasoned philosophy that his way really does work. If you listen to the quite voice in your heart. Even if it turned out that i was totally wrong about god that would still be ok. My faith in god has made me mold myself into a better person. That has made me make the world into a better place for those around me. I am far from perfect and struggle ever onwards towards being the kind of son that he can be proud of. If everyone did this while at the same time respecting everyone elses right to use their own free will to make the wrong choices and learn from them what a beutiful "heavenly" world it would be. There was an episode of friends in which Feebee tried to prove to Joey that there was such a thing as an unselfish good deed. He had stated that you did them to make yourself feel better. I have tried to make making the good choice such a habit that i do it without noticing. Note the word TRIED. We all fail sometimes and that too is part of life and growth. So yes I believe that I would follow god even if there were no rewards or eternal life because it ha been my personal experience that his way is the correct way.
 
Carcano said:
Its good to keep in mind though that not all spiritual traditions have God ideas.

Buddhism for example. One can believe in immortal Spirit without attaching any importance to deities.
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True most Buddhists I know do believe in live after death. Many believe in spirits or think they may become a ghost of sorts. Or will have another turn at the karma cycle and perhaps even ultimately become something more than themselves....

I suppose even without the need of a God-head per say, there is this universal need for life after death.

LiveInFaith said:
There is more than one reason people still do worshipping.
The utlimate reason, yes, life after death.

Other reason, regrading to the life (before death).
Many times, people get the feeling of secure and safe when submitting (worshipping God). Do praying. It helps in many stressing situations one is currently facing. It could push down blood pressures.
But well, this is not easy to understand. Because doing is believing.
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That's true. And in times of grief the beleif in something higher, either a God or even an ideal, can give confort.

It's interesting to note that many times, if the God is too remote, then people go for a more half-God or God-like or just somehow holy. A Saint, Buddha, Mohammad, Ali, Marry, Jesus....

As if the connection needs a human touch too.. .. ..

lightgigantic said:
obviously not since worshiping an entity (to the degree that one would worship god) that didn't reciprocate and didn't even fit the generic description of being a potent god is not possible (this type of 'god' would be worshiped to the same level as pamela anderson and the like - she also doesn't interact with her worshipers or offer much in the way of a next life)
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True :)

As an atheist though, can you see how I can see the billions the pray to God as similar to the Billions that pray to Pamela...

laughing weasel said:
Are all atheist drug dealing murdering rapist? I certainly hope not.
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:) obviously not.

The Chinese are raised from about kindergarten not to believe in Gods. Most that I know don't. They are a moral people. Chinese don't believe in murder, are hard workers, care for their parents, don't steal, don't rape, etc... Why? Why do they find it shameful to put their parents in a nursing home instead of taking care of them? Why not just have a fun time? Actually, why in hell did they think of Atheistic Communism - whihc goes against the very foundatio of your assertion: The individual good over that of the common.

Nature and Nurture.

Michael
 
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Michael
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Originally Posted by lightgigantic
obviously not since worshiping an entity (to the degree that one would worship god) that didn't reciprocate and didn't even fit the generic description of being a potent god is not possible (this type of 'god' would be worshiped to the same level as pamela anderson and the like - she also doesn't interact with her worshipers or offer much in the way of a next life)
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True

As an atheist though, can you see how I can see the billions the pray to God as similar to the Billions that pray to Pamela...
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yes of course - both the atheist and the theist draw upon bodies of knowledge (or world views) to come to conclusions about their needs, interests and concerns - obviously those bodies of knowledge are not identical

the theist could say that the reason that personalities like pamela anderson do get worshiped is that the propensity to worship or aspire for something as ideal is latent in all living entities, and such a propensity finds its proper application when one comes to god
 
I have never said communism was bad. I might call someone a commie mutant traitor as a joke or for effect but I believe that communism is several basic christian values leaving out one major difference. Free will communism is christianity without god rammed down peoples throats. Its basic premise is do good or else. It is always good to help your neighbors except if your help makes them unable to fend for themselves. Here in the real world i do not like to work at a job that does not pay overtime because they are not nearly as inconvenienced when I have to work extra as they are when I have to work and they pay me time and a half. Sure the extra money is nice( alright very nice) but I already work 45 hours a week at my primary job. If they did not have to pay O.T. they would never let me leave. I am lucky to have a job that I love enough that I would work these crazy hours for much less. Most peoples jobs are not like that so capitalism works best for those kinds of jobs. In conclusion, communism is a beutiful impractical system.
 
I wasn't really trying to say anything about Communism per say, more about the fact that people raised in an essentially Godless system still retain the moral values we associate with a civilized society and ergo the beleif in a God isn't required for moral citizenry.

So, I am left with the conclusion the main beleif in God is to try to mentally alleviate the realization that we will die by pretending we will not.


Fair enough,
Michael
 
Michael said:
I wasn't really trying to say anything about Communism per say, more about the fact that people raised in an essentially Godless system still retain the moral values we associate with a civilized society and ergo the beleif in a God isn't required for moral citizenry.

So, I am left with the conclusion the main beleif in God is to try to mentally alleviate the realization that we will die by pretending we will not.


Fair enough,
Michael
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they retain them because of all the society they have built on methinks. Not because it is human nature. If it is human nature that raises questions on why many animals lack a sophisticated social structure. As for dying? I'm not afriad at all. I never was, even before I was saved. It's just another part of what happens to someone.
 
Michael said:
I wasn't really trying to say anything about Communism per say, more about the fact that people raised in an essentially Godless system still retain the moral values we associate with a civilized society and ergo the beleif in a God isn't required for moral citizenry.

So, I am left with the conclusion the main beleif in God is to try to mentally alleviate the realization that we will die by pretending we will not.


Fair enough,
Michael
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People are not the same, some are able to behave morally, without any threats. These kind of people maybe, in extreme situation, maybe, can live in a social system without governing power.

But in reality, most people tend to corrupt, or tempted to, especially when in power.

The only watchguard to what people do (when in 'safe' situation - noone, nothing, is watching) is something we define 'omniscience'.

And this is my experience. When tempted to (yes, opportunity to do corruption is widely opened), I say to myself : God is watching!
 
While I was saved from death, thats not all. I was saved from a terrible life. Talk to other christians, most real ones should say that their overall quality of life improved greatly when they accepted Jesus. I was not motivated by fear, I was motivated by what was missing in my life. Everyone has the urge to pursue a god or some belief on the way the universe was made. THe soul desires to have something that no amount of worldly items can fulfill. THis urge drives someone to god. However, if the person is unwilling and refuses, he turns the urge for god into hate against god.
 
Positron said:
While I was saved from death, thats not all. I was saved from a terrible life. Talk to other christians, most real ones should say that their overall quality of life improved greatly when they accepted Jesus. I was not motivated by fear, I was motivated by what was missing in my life. Everyone has the urge to pursue a god or some belief on the way the universe was made. THe soul desires to have something that no amount of worldly items can fulfill. THis urge drives someone to god. However, if the person is unwilling and refuses, he turns the urge for god into hate against god.
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M*W: No, that is a wrong assumption. Only the individual can save himself from a terrible life. It is totally within his own power. Since it's human nature to want the best for onself, people tend to look for that magic pill to give them the best life they believe they could have, but there is no magic pill. Religion is a magic pill to a lot of people. They take it regularly like a daily multi-vitamin, believing if they keep taking it, it will improve their lives. They get a placebo effect and begin believing that they are spiritually healthy even when they're not (the grand delusion). These people don't focus on the cancer eating up their lives, they focus on that daily little pill as a cureall when it's not. Those who refuse to get into the false belief of the magic pill don't hate god. It's not that simple. They just know there is no magic pill to cure their ills except through their own logic and reason. Not believing in a god does not mean hating anything (the christian cop-out).
 
Medicine*Woman said:
*************
M*W: No, that is a wrong assumption. Only the individual can save himself from a terrible life. It is totally within his own power. Since it's human nature to want the best for onself, people tend to look for that magic pill to give them the best life they believe they could have, but there is no magic pill. Religion is a magic pill to a lot of people. They take it regularly like a daily multi-vitamin, believing if they keep taking it, it will improve their lives. They get a placebo effect and begin believing that they are spiritually healthy even when they're not (the grand delusion). These people don't focus on the cancer eating up their lives, they focus on that daily little pill as a cureall when it's not. Those who refuse to get into the false belief of the magic pill don't hate god. It's not that simple. They just know there is no magic pill to cure their ills except through their own logic and reason. Not believing in a god does not mean hating anything (the christian cop-out).
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Out for my blood again eh?:D I'm just going to tell you straight up, that I did NOT save myself. I did not say to myself that "okay, i'm gonna get clean, and make the biggest effort to do so" The moment I gave my life to jesus I simply did not fell the urge anymore to do any of the previous stuff. It's that simple. You may find it strange or impossible in your opinion but it's the truth.

I agree maybe the use of the word "hate" was a bit strong. I do not "think" that this "magic pill" will improve my life. It does. It's that simple, I see it every day, my life is so much better now. I couldnt have imagined it a few years ago.
 
Positron said:
Out for my blood again eh?:D I'm just going to tell you straight up, that I did NOT save myself. I did not say to myself that "okay, i'm gonna get clean, and make the biggest effort to do so" The moment I gave my life to jesus I simply did not fell the urge anymore to do any of the previous stuff. It's that simple. You may find it strange or impossible in your opinion but it's the truth.

I agree maybe the use of the word "hate" was a bit strong. I do not "think" that this "magic pill" will improve my life. It does. It's that simple, I see it every day, my life is so much better now. I couldnt have imagined it a few years ago.
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*************
M*W: I congratulate you for your recovery. It's not easy to do it alone. If your belief in religion helped you do do that, who am I to judge?

When I was in school, I studied about substance abuse and how it ruins lives. Although 12-step programs may be helpful for some, the overall percentage of recovering success amounts to only 18%. The other 82% return to their addictions. The way it works is replacing one addiction for another. In your case, you replaced your addiction with religion. I am glad it has worked for you.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: I congratulate you for your recovery. It's not easy to do it alone. If your belief in religion helped you do do that, who am I to judge?

When I was in school, I studied about substance abuse and how it ruins lives. Although 12-step programs may be helpful for some, the overall percentage of recovering success amounts to only 18%. The other 82% return to their addictions. The way it works is replacing one addiction for another. In your case, you replaced your addiction with religion. I am glad it has worked for you.
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Well thankyou very much.:) I couldnt be happier being addicted to Jesus.
 
Well thankyou very much. I couldnt be happier being addicted to Jesus.
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So send me all your money, the keys to your car, house, and any possession you deem valuable. And go follow Jesus! ;)
 
Michael said:
1) Do you think that God interferes in your life or do you see God as an observer only?

2) If YES to #1 what is an example where God did something?

3) Would you still worship God if he did nothing for you in life?

4) Would you still worship God if he did nothing for you in life and you were not granted an afterlife? That is to say, you simply ended.


I suppose I was wondering about the motivation for the continual supplication?

Thanks,
Michael
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Hello Michael

1) God interferes with my life, But to the extent of the interface i cannot be sure. Only on a few occasions can i be sure that it was direct interference from God. Look at it this way. If something was going to happen and God prevented it from happening how can one know what was to have happened if it never happened? So how can a person know that God has interviewed in ones life in that case? Same with the other way around. If something happens in my life because of Gods interference and i never knew that that happening was never going to happen how can i know for sure that the happening was as a result of Gods intervention?

1) God gave me dreams of the future that have come true, exactly. God also has given me knowledge beyond what i would be able to comprehend if He had not given it to me.

3) Yes

4) Well if there was not an afterlife then the God that i acknowledge as the God of all existence would not then exist because the God i worship has proclaimed that all will have an afterlife.

I suppose I was wondering about the motivation for the continual supplication?
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Motivation: God told me to offer supplication to Him for the things that i need and for the things that others need. I trust that God will give me all that i need but He has asked me to offer supplication for what i think i (and others) need. Prayer has other benefits beyond just the subject of ones needs or desires.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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