Missing years

[Neutrino_Albatross]

All founding fathers are believers of God, from diest to christians.

Correct, almost all were deists who belived that god created the universe and then abandoned it. Many of them also had a strong dislike of organized religion.

NO OTHER COUNTRY HAS THE SAME GUIDELINES WE HAVE. MOTTO "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" is in the pledge of alegions.

Like was already mention twice in this tread the "in god we trust" and "nation under god" was added in the 1950's for anti-communist purposes. This country was created with no specfic religion at all.

The constitution DOES HAVE THE LAWS BASED ON JUDEA TEACHINGS, THE 10 COMMANDMENTS, EVEN ONE NATION UNDER GOD

First of all "one nation under god" is not anywhere in the constitution.

Lets see how close the constitution and the 10 commandments match up:
1. You shall have no other gods beside Me - directly contradicted by 1st ammendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
2. You shall not make for yourself a sculptured image - Again directly contradicted by 1st ammendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain - Directly contradicted by 1st ammendment "freedom of speech"
4. Remember the sabbath day and keep it holy. - Not addressed in the constituiton
5. Honor your father and your mother, that you may long endure on the land which the LORD your God is giving you. - Not addressed in constitution
6. You shall not murder. - Not addressed in constitution
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Not addressed in constitution
8. You shall not steal. - Not addressed in constitution
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Not addressed in constitution
10. you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male or female slave, or his ox or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's. - Not addressed in constitution (but i think its interesting that the 10 commandments covers "not coveting you neighbor's ass" and also note how this law allows slavery as long as you dont covet somebody elses slave)

It seems that the only times that the 10 commandments and the constitution cover the same subject they disagree. The Constitution is a completely secular document. The only time religion is mentioned in it is in the first ammendmet when it says that congress wont support one.

*edit to add the slavery comment*

 

[Neutrino_Albatross]

YOU LIAR...CONSTITUTION IS BASED ON JUDEA'S 10 COMMANDMENTS. You heard of "thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor" in 10 commandments, and that's a FRAUD in US and you are accountable for that wrongfull act.

True but thats not part of the constitution. Anti fraud laws have been around as long as civilization. If the 10 commandments was the only sourse of that anti-fraud laws would only have been around since the beginning of judaism and limited to one small part of the world (because jeudo-christian religion was very localized until Constantine made it the official religion of rome)

SHOW ME WHERE IN THE HINDUISM'S TEACHING WHERE IT SAYS THOU SHALL NOT KILL AND STEAL

I'm not sure because i don't know much about the religion but i bet its there. Even so im almost positive that the secular governments in ancient india had some laws for that.

 

[muscleman]

I HAVE TO HUMBLE MYSELF and admit that I am wrong concerning the constititution being a direct based on the 10 commandments, but it is still supported in a biblical sense when jesus said "GIVE TO CEASARS WHATS CEASARS AND TO GOD'S WHATS GOD'S" called separation of state and church, the founding fathers knows that very well. NOW YOU IN THE OTHER HAND MUST ADMIT THAT AMERICA IS NOT, NOT, NOT AN ATHEISTIC COUNTRY BUT IS FAR FAR FROM IT.

THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AND RELIGION AND OTHERS ARE also Bible based when Jesus gave freedom to those who reject Him and didnt forced His words (described as pearls) on people.

FOUNDING FATHERS HAVE FEW DIEST AND MORE CHRISTIANS AND CATHOLICS ALIKE, THERE ARE ONLY FEW DEIST, BUT NEVERTHLESS WE R NOT TALKING ABOUT RELIGIONS HERE, WHO IS? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AMERICA BEING "CHRISTIAN" DOMINANT COUNTRY.

You can twist words and use it against anything as what u have demonstrated. JUST BECAUSE THE CONGRESS HAVE THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE LAWS, THEN YOU LINKED THAT TO CONGRESS AS IDOLATRY, ARE YOU OK? LOL, CONGRESS SETS LAW, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN WE WORSHGIP THEM AS GOD....WAKE UP!

 

[Neutrino_Albatross]

but it is still supported in a biblical sense when jesus said "GIVE TO CEASARS WHATS CEASARS AND TO GOD'S WHATS GOD'S" called separation of state and church

fair enogh, i didnt realize that the bible called for a seperation of church and state.

NOW YOU IN THE OTHER HAND MUST ADMIT THAT AMERICA IS NOT, NOT, NOT AN ATHEISTIC COUNTRY BUT IS FAR FAR FROM IT.

Oh i agree, but the american government is supposed to be entirely secular.

THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AND RELIGION AND OTHERS ARE also Bible based

Mabey but chrisianity has never supported freedom of speech. Things like executiong people for blaspheme, or modern fundie groups supporting censorship for example.

Jesus gave freedom to those who reject Him and didnt forced His words (described as pearls) on people.

True, he just condemed them to eternal damnnation if they disagreed with him.

JUST BECAUSE THE CONGRESS HAVE THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE LAWS, THEN YOU LINKED THAT TO CONGRESS AS IDOLATRY, ARE YOU OK? LOL, CONGRESS SETS LAW, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN WE WORSHGIP THEM AS GOD....WAKE UP!

Im afraid i have no idea what you're trying to say here, but i dont think i did any of that.

 

[(Q)]

The bible tells the story of the birth of Jesus, the next time he is mentioned he is around thirty years old. So why wasn't Jesus's childhood mentioned, or what he did in his teens. This has always puzzled me.

No need to be puzzled, the only logical conclusion is that the whole story of Jesus was fabricated to suit its purpose, that which was to make believers of the ignorant. And it worked.

 

[Tiassa]

That's logic?

That's logic? I'll take your word for it, Q. I'm trying at the moment to figure out how much of history is completely fabricated according to a similar standard. I think I'll be at it a while. Perhaps history, like God, doesn't exist?

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[(Q)]

Tiassa

Perhaps history, like God, doesn't exist?

Good point. At least some of our history is corroborated from more than one source. How many sources corroborate the bible ?

 

[(Q)]

I've read about 3 of those sources of which one is dubious. And those sources never cited his as some historical figure, but more of a rabble rouser or magician.

In other words, he had his 15 minutes of fame.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Common sense? SHOW ME WHERE IN THE HINDUISM'S TEACHING WHERE IT SAYS THOU SHALL NOT KILL AND STEAL, AFTER ALL THATS THE OLDEST PRACTICED RELIGION AND SECOND IS JUDEA.

Ok, here:

"You must not use your God-given body for killing God's creatures, whether they are human, animal or whatever." (Yajur Veda, 12.32)

"By not killing any living being, one becomes fit for salvation." (Manusmriti, 6.60)

Stealing is covered by the ideals of <a href="http://www.fizzilizzi.freeserve.co.uk/Asteya.htm">Asteya</a> and Aparagraha, non-stealing and non-possessiveness, respectively.

Before you make such comments about Hinduism, you might want to acquire atleast a rudimentary understanding of the basic tenets. Of course, you're going to totally ignore this because it doesn't fit in with your worldview.

 

[muscleman]

Voodoo, I AM NOT AN ATHEIST AND A COMPULSIVE LIAR WHO DONT ADMIT TO MISTAKES, I ADMIT I AM WRONG THERE, I AM NOT FRENCHENEEZ OR XELI0S OR YOU. YOUR RIGHT, AND SORRY TO SAY THIS BUT I ACTUALLY KNEW THAT AS WELL, SO NOW THE NEXT TOPIC WOULD BE, WHAT IS THE TRUE CHURCH? SINCE GOD IS PROVEN, HOW DO I KNOW WHICH GOD? HINDU GOD? CHRISTIAN GOD? MUSLIM GOD? WHICH GOD?

 

[CounslerCoffee]

Heres my take on that Jesus guy.

His family life: His dad to was a carpenter Jesus must of learned the tricks of the trades from him, his mom was a stay at home woman with little to nothing to do. He has no uncles, no brothers or sister, and no other relatives, lucky bastard. He is also Jewish.

His Parent's: I think the name of his mom is Mary but Im not really that sure, and his dads was something like Joe. It's obvious to anyone that thinks long and hard that Mary was cheating on Joe. Joe never had sex with Mary, Joe obviously being a repressed homosexual.

His Job: Jesus started out as a con-man, claiming to be the Son Of God, playing on peoples emotions and doing cheap parlor tricks. He started his own religion in the year 1976 known as christianity, it has since grown "out of control" in his own words. Jesus finally opted out of the religion business in 1993 and went to find work elsewhere. Jesus now works as a carpenter for IKEA making book cases and furniture, selling it to the masses and making a prophet.

That's all I really know about this Jesus guy, for more information look up Jesus on the web or read a bible, I think hes in it somewhere

 

[CounslerCoffee]

I wrote it a long time ago. Its on the abandoned part of my website that I have yet to delete.

 

[CounslerCoffee]

I used to title the site Weird Wacky Crap but now its just about aliens and Ellen Feiss.

I stopped linking the page because it was off topic, the site was suppose to be about alien crap... youd be surprised how many people want to knwo about alien crap... my hit counter is at 14,000 something, its been around since May 5th 2001

 

[shinobi]

Originally posted by muscleman
Voodoo, I AM NOT AN ATHEIST AND A COMPULSIVE LIAR WHO DONT ADMIT TO MISTAKES, I ADMIT I AM WRONG THERE, I AM NOT FRENCHENEEZ OR XELI0S OR YOU. YOUR RIGHT, AND SORRY TO SAY THIS BUT I ACTUALLY KNEW THAT AS WELL, SO NOW THE NEXT TOPIC WOULD BE, WHAT IS THE TRUE CHURCH? SINCE GOD IS PROVEN, HOW DO I KNOW WHICH GOD? HINDU GOD? CHRISTIAN GOD? MUSLIM GOD? WHICH GOD?

I have soul on offer here. Would you like it? If so, please don't shout all the time. I realise that you have more reason than I to convert me to your faith than I to your's, but do you have to do it so loudly?

Capitals are really hard to read. There are religious guys here who I disagree with, but I read and respect their opinions. But your opinions I haven't a clue about because you shout in my face all the time.

I'm sure you have something important to say and the ability to say it well. I would like to hear your opinion, but I don't like it screamed at me. This is just a personal opinion.

 

[shinobi]

Kiz

I quoted muscleman - he shouts and makes no sense.

I said some Christians I respect, I meant hard-core Christians like you

Cool?

 

[Voodoo Child]

SINCE GOD IS PROVEN, HOW DO I KNOW WHICH GOD? HINDU GOD? CHRISTIAN GOD? MUSLIM GOD? WHICH GOD?

You think you have done what millenia's worth of the greatest minds of the world haven't accomplished?

You have just given a vague argument from design and scarcely the best one that the world has ever seen.

This compulsively lying atheist isn't QUITE satisfied about God's indubitable existence quite yet.

Basically your problems are:

- you haven't shown that complex things can't arise naturally. You've just used caps and talked about hurricanes and lightening.

- you logically require someone to design God.

- You haven't considered the possibility that life has existed forever.

 

[muscleman]

Originally posted by Voodoo Child

Basically your problems are:

- you haven't shown that complex things can't arise naturally.

I have mentioned this over trillion times (fos), I have done so and proved complex forms from biological to technological couldnt possibly "exist" by "LUCK" because science have proven so, curently speaking all the ignredients that makes up life forms are accessible and labeled, however there are differences between living complete body and dead complete body. Because of that, that amino acids are gathered, etc, and they still cant create a living cell, because of such failure by admittance, the conclusion is that "IF SCIENCE COULDNT CREATE A LIVING CELL BY PURPOSE, CONSIDERING THE FACT THEY DISCOVERED ALL THE NECESSARY INGREDIENT THAT MAKES UP A CELL (AMINO ACIDS, ETC.) AND STILL CANNOT CREATE A LIVING CELL, WHY THEN DO ATHEIST PROPOSE MR. LIGHTNING, EARTHQUAKE, AND HURRICANE DID IT?"

Originally posted by Voodoo Child

- you logically require someone to design God.

AGAIN IF GOD CREATED THE WORLD, WHO CREATED GOD? READ IN THE POST "GOD DOES NOT EXIST", THE ANSWER IS THERE AND I HAVE MENTIONED THIS ALOT OF TIMES.

Originally posted by Voodoo Child

- You haven't considered the possibility that life has existed forever.

POSSIBILITY? A CLAIM OF POSSIBILITY NEEDS PROOF, OTHERWISE ANYONE CAN MAKE CLAIMS OF POSSIBLE AND IT WILL JUST BE ANOTHER WISHFULL THINKING OR PSYCHIC PHENOMENON. PERIOD..

 

[Cris]

Muscleman,

LIKE KIZ WAS SAYING, WHEN WILL U GO IN FRONT OF CHURCHES AND PREACH HOW JESUS AND GOD ARE NON-EXISTENT, I DARE YOU...

As I said earlier I have done that already, but am quite willing to speak in a church against religion. I have been told that I am a very effective, eloquent and accomplished public speaker. I have taught and lectured in many countries, from the Far East, through Europe, and the USA and Canada. I have no fear of speaking my mind in public and I don’t understand why you or Kiz think there is some difficulty in doing this.

I suspect it is not my fear but the fear by the Church that would not allow this to occur. I cannot imagine any Church allowing an atheist to present the truth to their congregation rather than have them subjected to their usual indoctrination, religious propaganda and emotionalism. It just wouldn’t be in their best interest to invite an atheist to speak. I think Kiz mentioned something about being spineless and cowardly – the church certainly seems to the most likely to fit that role.

But judging by the numerous death threats sent to the atheist who brought the case against the pledge of allegiance being unconstitutional, then it would seem quite foolish of me to subject myself to the probable death threats and violence that has accompanied Christianity throughout its bloody and violent history.

Indeed it is a christian dominant world your living in, but why are you wasting time trying to battle against christianity which by the way you can never defeat, there are many christians, but only few are very sharp about their faith (the intellectuals),

No not true. Christianity only represents one third of the world population, most people in the world are not Christian. And there are some 25 million atheists and free-thinkers in the USA alone, and that is still a significant number.

But you make a good point that very few Christians are truly dedicated, the rest are mostly sheep who just follow the religion because that happened to be the religion where they were born. These sheep only see religion at weddings and funerals. These are Christians who could be easily swayed by a more meaningful, stronger and widespread philosophy. So really there are only a few hard core Christians that would concern me.

But really there is no need for a head-on fight. As science moves us forward with new discoveries and technologies, and certainly at the DNA and stem cell level, we see the inevitable increase in knowledge, education, and the corresponding decline in ignorance, superstition and religions. This process has been occurring quite noticeably now for the past few centuries, and is increasing at a non-linear rate. Countries are no longer ruled by religion except in the backward world of Islam, and even that seems to be changing.

There is no real need to defeat Christianity; it is dying all by itself. Once there were just a few sects, now there are hundreds of splintered groups, sects, and cults, all claiming to be the true Christianity. Also, many who were once Christian are desperately looking for better answers so we see the massive increase in New Age style concepts.

I’ve no need to risk being shot by a fundamentalist Christian. I’ll stick with my science and help educate the world through real knowledge in the confidence that religion is dying and will eventually fade away into the irrelevance that it is.

Cris

 

[Cris]

Kizlevru,

It looks like you have gone through this thread and deleted all your earlier offensive posts. I was going to respond to one of them.

I think that is good. But you seem to have a split personality here and that is quite confusing. Sometimes you appear as a theist fundamentalist and at other times you side with atheism.

What is your real perspective? Or are there multiple persons using the same userid?

Cris

 

[Cris]

tiassa,

Speaking Tour.

LOL. This could be good fun. I have to admit my lectures tend to be highly technical and full of charts and diagrams, I suspect I’d feel slightly lost without a diagram to point at while talking. However, I should try this.

So you really think that churches would welcome guest speakers with alternate views? I’m not sure I could disguise my real atheist motives though, even with your skillfully woven word-smithing. But perhaps all I need is the opening, as you imply, keep them guessing and only near the end will they realize my true perspective. That would only last a while until the reputation begins to precede the bookings. But such talks would not last if the issues were presented as fundamentalist; they would need to be subtle and believable. Such statements as ignorant and irrational theists just wouldn’t work very well. But the needs for evidence, or non-religious morality, and hints at mythology, might be good starting points.

I would certainly value you are as a fabulous researcher. I’m not much for reading I’m afraid, I prefer direct involved action. I can’t watch sport for the same reason, but I love to play.

I am also moving shortly (December), but not far – from Cupertino to Sunnyvale. Sunnyvale was voted the safest city in the USA a few years ago. There are quite a few churches around here, and I do have some devout Christian friends. Perhaps I’ll join them, hmm, if I speak will they remain my friends though? Yup I think so, they already know my views.

Take care
Cris