Minus the superstition

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
If you take the superstition out of religion: What is the underlying central message?

Take Xianity for example. Suppose there was no Jesus, no God, no miracles, etc.. what is the underlying message in the NT? I think it's forgiveness. It's all about asking to be forgiven and to be able to forgive.

People sometimes refer to Buddhism as a philosophy, not a religion. For most Buddhists I know it is their religion. However, it does say something positive about the underlying teachings in Buddhism if they can stand on their own without the superstition. It suggests Buddha was really concerned with humanity - real humanity.



What about Scientology? Mormonism? Islam? Hinduism? Can these religions stand without the superstitious baggage? And, importantly, do they offer something new over that of their preceding religions?


MII
 
Minus the superstition and the post commentary dogma, Jesus appears to have been saying pretty much the same thing that Siddhartha (Buddha) was saying:

Be kind.
Be compassionate.
Be aware of your actions and how they may affect others.
Act with integrity.
 
How do you know which of it is the superstition?
Rising the dead, splitting the moon, being anal probed by aliens, looking in a magical hat, that sort of stuff is more about impressing the masses not really about a message per say.

I'm interested in the central message.

Minus the superstition and the post commentary dogma, Jesus appears to have been saying pretty much the same thing that Siddhartha (Buddha) was saying:

Be kind.
Be compassionate.
Be aware of your actions and how they may affect others.
Act with integrity.
Would you say that this list could be applied to all religions you have studied?
 
Is there a difference between monotheisms and polytheisms in core message? Could there be a fundamental contradiction?
 
Would you say that this list could be applied to all religions you have studied?

No I wouldn't.
Many of them have similar underlying themes, but I wouldn't say they all have the same underlying message.
 
I just got to thinking about what Cris posted about Scientology. That, under all the Alien stuff is the message of strong community and family values.
 
I just got to thinking about what Cris posted about Scientology. That, under all the Alien stuff is the message of strong community and family values.

The same with Mormon's.
Family and community are central in their belief system.
 
What about Buddhism? I thought Life is Suffering was central dogma?

Family and community go well with monotheism, assuming everyone in the family and community are monotheists, but what about the global community?
 
What about Buddhism? I thought Life is Suffering was central dogma?
Yes.
Life is Suffering is an important aspect of Buddhism.
It is what gave birth to Siddhartha's path of enlightenment.
He saw an old person, a sick person and a dead person and concluded that life is suffering and saw it as his goal to find a way to escape the suffering.

What he taught - the path to escape that suffering - is outlined in what I said above.

Family and community go well with monotheism, assuming everyone in the family and community are monotheists, but what about the global community?
That's a damned good question.
I'm not sure that any religion addresses that per se, but appropriate action can be extrapolated from the base belief system.
There is a growing number of Christian ministers and priests, for example, that are gathering behind a green movement using the notion that being the dominant species on earth, we are responsible to be the custodians of the Earth.
This is not spelled out in Jesus' sermons, but it certainly seems to be aligned with them.
 
In the case of Buddhism it seems Buddha made a new observation and so as he shared this idea with people they found it was useful and a movement formed. But, what about Mormonism or Islam what have they advanced over that of just Xianity? In other words, why would people choose to join something if it's already propagating an ideology that presently exists?

I was thinking, the draw card for Mormon's would be "America". Even though it wasn't new ideology, it was something that happened in America and so naturally Americans could feel drawn to it on the sense of Nationality. Likewise, Arabs had been waiting for an Arab prophet for a long time, so, even if Islam served up essentially the same message - it could be propagated as a national movement.

In the case of Scientology. It might make more sense. This idea that Alien's exit is not all that far fetched. Actually, many scientists seem to agree that odds are there is life out there, somewhere. However, they also have a bunch of superstition wrapped in there as well.

Couldn't we have a green movement irrespective of religion? I mean, I'm not religous but I support a healthier planet.
 
In the case of Buddhism it seems Buddha made a new observation and so as he shared this idea with people they found it was useful and a movement formed. But, what about Mormonism or Islam what have they advanced over that of just Xianity? In other words, why would people choose to join something if it's already propagating an ideology that presently exists?
Siddhartha took the current Brahman philosophy, based on the Vedas, and pointed out where he thought it was lacking.

Jesus took the current Jewish philosophy, based on the Tanakh, and pointed out where he thought it was lacking.

Joseph Smith took the current Christian philosophy, based on the Bible, and pointed out where he thought it was lacking.

Mohammed took the current Judeo-Christian philosophy, based on the Bible, and pointed out where he thought it was lacking.

I was thinking, the draw card for Mormon's would be "America". Even though it wasn't new ideology, it was something that happened in America and so naturally Americans could feel drawn to it on the sense of Nationality. Likewise, Arabs had been waiting for an Arab prophet for a long time, so, even if Islam served up essentially the same message - it could be propagated as a national movement.
But it is more than that, both these men were believed to be prophets with a direct link to God - a sort of cult of personality.
There were also a lot of differences in what they taught.
Joseph Smith not only taught that Jesus came to America, but that families are reunited in the afterlife and man is capable of essentially creating his own world and achieving a God-like status in the afterlife - among other things.
This can be very appealing and is drastically different from mainstream Christian beliefs.

What Mohammed taught also veered pretty far from mainstream Judeo-Christian thought.
The Jews had no clear vision of Heaven.
Jesus' vision of heaven was not entirely clear, but was one of spitirtual bliss and peace.
Mohammed's vision of heaven was one of sensual, worldy pleasures.
Joseph Smith's vision of heaven was one of family and creation.

While they may come from the same roots and share many of the same messages, where they do differ, they differ vastly.

In the case of Scientology. It might make more sense. This idea that Alien's exit is not all that far fetched. Actually, many scientists seem to agree that odds are there is life out there, somewhere. However, they also have a bunch of superstition wrapped in there as well.
I know very little about Scientology, other than Hubbard was a novel writer and made a drunken bet one night that he could create a religion that people will follow and it will make him rich.

Couldn't we have a green movement irrespective of religion? I mean, I'm not religous but I support a healthier planet.
Of course, and we do have many of them.
I, for one, am grateful for the Green God movements.
Genesis states that the world was created for man and he holds dominion over it and should subdue it.
I have known many American Christiians who take that as meaning the world is our sandbox and we can do anythng we wish with it.
It is refreshing to see religious leaders take some responsibility to try anfd change that attitude and man's role to more of a custodian over God's gift.
 
Siddhartha took the current Brahman philosophy, based on the Vedas, and pointed out where he thought it was lacking.

Jesus took the current Jewish philosophy, based on the Tanakh, and pointed out where he thought it was lacking.

Joseph Smith took the current Christian philosophy, based on the Bible, and pointed out where he thought it was lacking.

Mohammed took the current Judeo-Christian philosophy, based on the Bible, and pointed out where he thought it was lacking.
I suppose what I am wondering is if what they thought was lacking was worthwhile pointing out?

Buddha does seem to be making a novel commentary on the human condition and what he sees as a means of alleviating suffering.

But Joseph Smith? He may have pointed out what he thought was lacking (The bible was missing America) but really, was it all that important to point out? I mean, what was his contribution to humanity? Anything?

What was Mohammad's lasting contribution?

Jesus is a difficult one, given most of this philosophy was already around. I'm not sure if Christianity actually brought something entirely new in terms of doctrine? But, it could be said that it popularized the notion of forgiveness over revenge.
 
Buddha does seem to be making a novel commentary on the human condition and what he sees as a means of alleviating suffering.

But Joseph Smith? He may have pointed out what he thought was lacking (The bible was missing America) but really, was it all that important to point out? I mean, what was his contribution to humanity? Anything?

What was Mohammad's lasting contribution?

Jesus is a difficult one, given most of this philosophy was already around. I'm not sure if Christianity actually brought something entirely new in terms of doctrine? But, it could be said that it popularized the notion of forgiveness over revenge.
It's not a matter of how much one has added to humanity, but how unique their message was.
The more I learn about Mormonism, the more unique I find it is.
It wasn't just Jesus appearing in the America's, it's an alternate view of the entire history of mankind, not to mention a radiacly different view of the afterlife.

I would argue that Jesus had the least unique to add.
His philosophy is really just Buddhism grafted onto the popular social beliefs of the region of the day - which, really, is Buddhism itself.
 
Buddhism seems better suited, or rather the concept seems plausible to a small village. How does it account for explosive population growth? Because i dont see how it can.

I think that it is just another way of telling pople they, some day, will cease to exist on this planet.

Having never studied religion i can be wrong about that so feel free to point the errors out.

Edit: I cannot say with certainty which belief is correct because i can accept almost anything. Who knows? I also think that belief, any type, is hard coded into humans. Some form of after life is a defense mechanism for sure but you never know...you just dont know.

The thing about reincarnation is that every life is too unique and what would be the purpose? Recycled people?

Bear in mind that i also think that 70-80 years is too short, seems like a waste considering the work that went into developing a mature individual. Capable of so much, to think, to learn, the potential not fully realized. So where does that leave things? at square one. I shall let the reader decide. No right answer, yet no wrong answer Is there some form of life beyond what we can see? another level to hamun consciousness? i accept the supernatural. i shall embrace the supernatural until my last breath, hope, faith. I shall look up towards the sky for an answer and shall it come i will share it with humanity. And if, if it is not meant to be i shall hang my heard and mourn the life snuffed out, the candle never to be lit again. The warmth fading from its glow, cold as ice.
 
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Buddhism seems better suited, or rather the concept seems plausible to a small village. How does it account for explosive population growth? Because i dont see how it can.

I think that it is just another way of telling pople they, some day, will cease to exist on this planet.

I don't understand.
Please elaborate.
 
Because the human population is expansive, incredibly expansive. We have witnessed populations double and triple. Where does that leave the concept of reincarnation. Time is the greatest teacher, it does not lie nor has any agenda. Has no consideration for peoples feelings.

Do you think that some people are born the reincarnated essence of someone else whereas so many more could not be. If i were to devise this concept in a controlled environment, such as a small village, it can actually seem believable but knowing what we do now it just sounds like another human idea.
 
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