Mind the Gap: Feminism’s Step on Islam

Proud_Muslim

Shield of Islam
Registered Senior Member
Outpourings of nationalist self-righteousness seldom provide space for subtlety and contradiction. The French feminist support for the loi sur la laïcité has crossed both historical and cultural bounds. With barely thirty years of meager institutional gains under its belt, feminism has engaged in cross-cultural preaching. It has ventured far and wide from its socio-economic, revolutionary, discourse of the 1970s and 1980s.

In the eyes of feminists, an advanced culture is predicated upon the essential freedoms, or rights, granted by law to its female population. Insofar as freedom might be a typically Western concept-at least how it has found its contemporary formulation and the linguistic heritage from which it has emerged-feminism has had to cross the desert of the interpretative dispersal that frames all Western concepts. Along the way it sprouted its own ideological version.

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There is no purity of thought in the West. Not anymore than elsewhere, perhaps. And even less when it is a matter of institutional gains and power politics. When this becomes a state of things, the content of ideas shifts considerably from the cradle of revolt, collective demand and social movements from which it surged forth.

In that regard, it comes as no surprise that two essential points of the loi sur la laïcité have been brushed aside without the bat of an eye. It is the measure of a law’s fairness to be able to address the subtle pluralism on which any society breeds. The fact that the French law aims at curbing the rights of young women, under the purported guise of protecting them from their own families and religious authorities, should not lead one to ignore that such focus on the student-individual’s general rights is otherwise a trait typical to the French public schooling system at large.

http://www.islamonline.net/English/in_depth/hijab/2004-03/article_02.shtml
 
There is no purity of thought in the West.

We discussed the head scarf to death already, remember?
Anyway I just had to ask, what in the world is "purity of thought"?
 
spidergoat said:
We discussed the head scarf to death already, remember?

True, but we are here discussing feminism step on Islam.

Anyway I just had to ask, what in the world is "purity of thought"?

purity of thought is to be pure and honest in your ideas and thoughts, not to switch sides and turn into pragmatic when circumstances dont suit you.
 
Insofar as freedom might be a typically Western concept

*hint*

Freedom is a universal concept as is oppression.
 
I agree but the french and the germans are now oppressing this freedom by banning Muslim women from wearing the hijab. :mad:
 
(Q) said:
PM

The hijab IS oppression.
How so? Please tell me, because I keep hearing this and I would like someone to explain to me how wearing the hijab is oppression. If you consider it to be a form of male oppression on the female, then wouldn't it also be true that women who wear make up and pretty dresses to please their men are also oppressed in some way? If your husband/boyfriend asked you to dress in a certain manner and you do so.. say he likes to see you in mini skirts and you oblige him by wearing it, then isn't that also a form of oppression?

We look at Muslim women as being oppressed, and yes while some are (as are some women in the West), we fail to recognise that these women have the choice to wear the hijab. It is only where the choice is taken from them that it becomes oppression.

So how can it be oppression if the individual woman chooses to wear it? In such a case, isn't it oppression when one prevents her from doing so?
 
daisy250 said:
What I call oppression is what the french are doing. :rolleyes:

France belongs to the French, not muslims, it all sounds like sour grapes.

I don't hear anyone complaining about S. Arabia
 
daisy250 said:
What I call oppression is what the french are doing. :rolleyes:

well said sister Daisy, you are a Muslim sister and you dont think the Hijab is an oppression, I hope the haters are listening ! :rolleyes:
 
Vienna said:
France belongs to the French, not muslims, it all sounds like sour grapes.
Ah and so you discount all French born or French nationals who've converted to Islam? They are French, born there, family may have been in France for more than 10 generations, and one or a few have converted. So what exactly are they meant to do? They are French and Muslim. Well?

You look at Muslims as though they were different or outside of society, when in truth they are not. Many are French and have converted to Islam. France belongs to them also, and they are Muslim. Hmmm quite interesting isn't it? Should they ignore or reject their religious beliefs because the Government is acting like a toilet full of turd? Don't forget that this is a Government who is preaching secularism, yet they have Christmas decorations out each year and giving everyone the day off because it's Christmas and they celebrate Easter by deeming it a national holiday. Secular my foot! This law is blatantly prejudicial.
 
Bells said:
How so? Please tell me, because I keep hearing this and I would like someone to explain to me how wearing the hijab is oppression. If you consider it to be a form of male oppression on the female, then wouldn't it also be true that women who wear make up and pretty dresses to please their men are also oppressed in some way? If your husband/boyfriend asked you to dress in a certain manner and you do so.. say he likes to see you in mini skirts and you oblige him by wearing it, then isn't that also a form of oppression?
What is the difference between Makeup & the Hijab? The Makeup is used to express one’s beauty. The Hijab is used to suppress one’s beauty. The Hijab only becomes oppressive when it is forced upon women. Like in many Islamic countries. Thus wearing the Hijab in non-muslim countries remind people of the oppression of women in Islamic states.

Bells said:
We look at Muslim women as being oppressed, and yes while some are (as are some women in the West), we fail to recognise that these women have the choice to wear the hijab. It is only where the choice is taken from them that it becomes oppression.
Everybody knows that many women in Islamic states don’t enjoy such a choice. In fact in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the seat of Islam, 15 girls were burned to death because religious police would not let out of a burning building for not wearing the hijab.

In non-muslim states muslim women immigrants still wear the hijab & burqa because all their life they’ve been force to wear this and thus they have been conditioned to always wear them.

Bells said:
So how can it be oppression if the individual woman chooses to wear it? In such a case, isn't it oppression when one prevents her from doing so?
Lucky are the muslim woman who lives in free non-muslim lands. For they could disobey Islamic rules & traditions without much of fear of reprisals.
 
:mad: What? Are you haunting me now or something? :p

DoctorNO said:
What is the difference between Makeup & the Hijab? The Makeup is used to express one’s beauty. The Hijab is used to suppress one’s beauty. The Hijab only becomes oppressive when it is forced upon women. Like in many Islamic countries. Thus wearing the Hijab in non-muslim countries remind people of the oppression of women in Islamic states.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And as for the hijab suppressing one's beauty, how so? I've seen stunningly beautiful women in the hijab and I've seen frighteningly ugly women without it. And yes, you are right when you say that it only becomes oppressive when it is forced upon women. But being denied the right to wear it is also oppression.

Lucky are the muslim woman who lives in free non-muslim lands. For they could disobey Islamic rules & traditions without much of fear of reprisals.
Unhappy and oppressed are the Muslim women who live in France and Turkey and are denied the freedom to follow the Islamic rules and traditions if they choose to for they know that they will face reprisals if they do wear the hijab.
 
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Bells said:
:mad: What? Are you haunting me now or something? :p
:D

Bells said:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And as for the hijab suppressing one's beauty, how so? I've seen stunningly beautiful women in the hijab and I've seen frighteningly ugly women without it.
Yes but that doesn’t remove the purpose of the Hijab, to hide the woman’s hair. The crown of her beauty.


Bells said:
Unhappy and oppressed are the Muslim women who live in France and Turkey and are denied the freedom to follow the Islamic rules and traditions if they choose to for they know that they will face reprisals if they do wear the hijab.
Rules? I thought you said the hijab is a choice? Like it or not many choices & civil freedoms are not allowed inside a school. Like the choice to wear a bikini, the choice to carry knives, the choice to loiter, the choice to pray aloud, the choice to display a cross. The hijab is not being singled out here.

Bells said:
But being denied the right to wear it is also oppression.
Generally. It is about as oppressive as being denied the right to wear micro mini skirts. Or the Sikh ceremonial knife.
 
There is just to much emphasis on traditions.. Traditions are good when they dont harm anyone. As soon as it begins to become an issue. Get rid of it. Pride is a decease when it gets in the way of positive change.
 
DoctorNO said:
Rules? I thought you said the hijab is a choice? Like it or not many choices & civil freedoms are not allowed inside a school. Like the choice to wear a bikini, the choice to carry knives, the choice to loiter, the choice to pray aloud, the choice to display a cross. The hijab is not being singled out here.
The hijab is a choice. I stated above that the rule is there and it is up to the individual who decides if they wish to wear it or not. The Quran states that both men and women are to dress modestly. It does not define how modest is modest. Some choose to wear the hijab and some do not.

And while yes I understand the rules held in a school, the cross and the skull cap can still be worn as stated by the French laws. As long as the crucifix is small and unobtrusive and the skull cap is covered by a cap (ie baseball cap), then it's fine. The French were stupid enough to mention to the Sikh's that they wear a hair net instead as an alternative, which they rightly and soundly rejected. However for the Muslim girl/woman, there is no alternative whatsoever. It's discrimination, pure and simple. By wearing the hijab, turban, crucifix, skull cap, they aren't harming anyone. It's a ridiculous law.
 
Bells said:
Ah and so you discount all French born or French nationals who've converted to Islam? They are French, born there, family may have been in France for more than 10 generations, and one or a few have converted. So what exactly are they meant to do? They are French and Muslim. Well?

You look at Muslims as though they were different or outside of society, when in truth they are not. Many are French and have converted to Islam. France belongs to them also, and they are Muslim. Hmmm quite interesting isn't it? Should they ignore or reject their religious beliefs because the Government is acting like a toilet full of turd? Don't forget that this is a Government who is preaching secularism, yet they have Christmas decorations out each year and giving everyone the day off because it's Christmas and they celebrate Easter by deeming it a national holiday. Secular my foot! This law is blatantly prejudicial.

Isn't it strange that I don't hear Christians or Jews bleating - only muslims
 
Vienna said:
Isn't it strange that I don't hear Christians or Jews bleating - only muslims
I watch the French news and believe me they are bleating just as much. The Western media just don't show it as much.
 
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