O
One
Guest
Do mind altering drugs such as lsd and ecstacy open the doors of perception and experience or simply bar the doors of reality?
L
LogicalAtheist
Guest
DO you not know the symptoms of these?
I would suggest www.webmd.com
Do you seriously think someone taking these drugs, and not a physician, would know the truth about what they're experiencing?
If you're looking for a medical answer, it's on that site.
You periceve the world ONLY through your nervous system. Mind altering drugs alter the signals in and out.
Thats your answer. What they "feel like" is completel opinion.
I would suggest www.webmd.com
Do you seriously think someone taking these drugs, and not a physician, would know the truth about what they're experiencing?
If you're looking for a medical answer, it's on that site.
You periceve the world ONLY through your nervous system. Mind altering drugs alter the signals in and out.
Thats your answer. What they "feel like" is completel opinion.
O
One
Guest
Understood and agreed. However, I postulate, there is no such thing as reality, only ones personal perception of reality. Can you say for instance, someone suffering from anerexia is percieving reality? My point is, does the experience of drug use help put into perspective, that what we are experiencing as reality, while not on drugs, is not necessarily reality as others see it?
Unless you have taken it yourself you can't really comprehend it. One of the followers of Charles Manson took too much and for a long time he stabbed a couple with a fork repeateadly just for the amazement of seeing blood. LSD causes your happy neuromodulators to act up to beyond orgasm levels...(techincally Orgasm is the highest point of pleasure a body can make without and help from drugs)...at that high levels i guess your synapsis fire amazingly different signals...completely different from your regular chemistery giving you new amazing feelings which most people percive as new reality...a reality that once was hindered by the limitations of a sober state. LSD makes your mind work at a different level..a level where the mind wasn't designed to work at so it can be life altering experience for some.
Don't mind me blabbing.
Don't mind me blabbing.
You'd be right if you were stating that peoples perceptions of reality can be different, but objective reality itself stays the same. There are absolute concrete things in this world, universals, to argue against that point would be completely out of ignorance. A world without absolutes and constants, wouldn't allow for an internet message board, for instance. When you log in the same principals are being used over and over again with the exact same effect over and over again, and the same thing works for everybody.
Don't try to qualify hallucinations induced by drugs as reality. Each trip is a little different, within limits, but there's not exactly anything you can learn from it, it's not showing you any hidden truths, it's just screwing with your brain.
O
One
Guest
Dont mind your blabbing at all, it's what I'm looking for!
I have experienced various drugs including trips, Es, crystal meth, speed etc... These experiences havent given me any "Jim Morrison peyote meaning of life" lessons... What I'm talking about is drugs simply raising an awareness of the differences between objective reality and percieved reality. It makes you realise that your brain CAN be screwed with and your own perception of reality, although its the only reality you know, may not necessarily be the truth.
I have experienced various drugs including trips, Es, crystal meth, speed etc... These experiences havent given me any "Jim Morrison peyote meaning of life" lessons... What I'm talking about is drugs simply raising an awareness of the differences between objective reality and percieved reality. It makes you realise that your brain CAN be screwed with and your own perception of reality, although its the only reality you know, may not necessarily be the truth.
exactly many don't realiz how fragile one's brain chemistery is..(by one i don't mean user named one i mean one as in self )......what you percieve could be vastly different from what is.....so how do you know if anything exists at all..i guess you don't, you just move and realize that you have to trust in certain things to be true and what one trusts in depends on that person.
Drugs only offer you a limited release into something greater...a greater which is nothing more than a vivid world created by your amazing tool called a brain. I guess, not space but, your mind is the final frontier because even space has to through your mind to be comprehended. What your mind allows you believe so who knows what you could be missing out right now and who knows what you could be seeing that the rest of the world doesn't even know about.
Hope that made sense.
)......what you percieve could be vastly different from what is.....so how do you know if anything exists at all..i guess you don't, you just move and realize that you have to trust in certain things to be true and what one trusts in depends on that person.Drugs only offer you a limited release into something greater...a greater which is nothing more than a vivid world created by your amazing tool called a brain. I guess, not space but, your mind is the final frontier because even space has to through your mind to be comprehended. What your mind allows you believe so who knows what you could be missing out right now and who knows what you could be seeing that the rest of the world doesn't even know about.
Hope that made sense.
O
One
Guest
Isn't it strange how our emotions are based on chemical reactions? Ecstacy, for instance, causes the brain to release its entire seretonin supply into the appropriate receptive part of the brain, making you extremely happy! Its a chemical induced happiness but at the time its as real and valid as any natural happiness. What is the natural process of emotion that triggers the same chemical release? How does thought energy interact with the physical matter of the brain? How does the brain realize it wants to be happy BEFORE any happy chemicals are released to make it happy? Surely this question alone points to the notion that emotions cannot ONLY be attributed to chemical reactions!
I do not promote drug use as I dont think it will provide any answers to the big questions. Drugs are good for showing you that there IS a door, meditation and thought training allow you to open it.
I do not promote drug use as I dont think it will provide any answers to the big questions. Drugs are good for showing you that there IS a door, meditation and thought training allow you to open it.
Alot of people meditate and its getting biger and biger here in the west but most of them use it for threatment!
In my opinion some people should meditate to better themselves but after years of meditation they come to the point where a man stands on the same ground without meditation and thats the reason I dont meditate as on my knowledge of this aint high enough!
My term calling it as a real one is "practice".
AndersHermansson
Registered Senior Member
You could say LSD opens the doors of perception, literally. One of the most appearant effects of LSD is that you start noticing thoughts, emotions and stimuli that is normally filtered out; being kept from your conscience. Some people think there is truth in hallucinogenic drugs like LSD and mushrooms. I can imagine that the dissociative qualities can be misleading. You percieve all this new stuff and at the same time you feel disconnected. Does anything really matter to you? I can sometimes get the same dissociative effect by training Aikido or watching a movie that really grabs my attention. Also, the experience can get pretty intense, it's easy then taking what you experience for some kind of religious truth.
river-wind
Valued Senior Member
everything in the world can be a tool if used in the way that it is usefull. Trying to screw in a screw with a hammer is not usefull. Halucinogenic drugs do the following: alter consoius perception. While I personally believe that they do more specific things than that, I can't prove it, so I'll stick with what I can prove.
So they alter consious perception. Taking halucenogens in limited amounts could open up outlooks on situations or on life in general that would be very difficult to do on your own. However, taking halucinogens in amounts which cut off your connection to the corpreal world causes them to be a hinderance in understanding, not a tool. Just as nailing in a dry-wall nail with a sledge hammer would not be a very good idea, taking large doses of LSD to understand the universe is not going to be helpful in the long run.
now, keep in mind that there is a huge difference between refined halucinogens and naturally occuring halucinogens. In short term, long term effects, mostly due to dosage level differences, taking a gram of a refined substance is vastly different than taking a gram of the same substance, when sitll in it's unrefined state.
So one peyote button=tiny, tiny, tiny dose of pure mescaline. Plus, by refining mescaline, you remove the safely feature of natural peyote-if you eat too much peyote, you throw up long before any perminant damage is done to your body. with refined mescaline, the vomit inducing chemical compounds have largely been removed.
As for LSD, it is the pnumatic telephone pole driving machine in terms of the nail/wallboard example above. To use LSD as a tool, and not abuse it to destructive ends, requires a huge amount of care and respect. more care and respect than even Timothy Leary gave to LSD while he used it.
As far as halucinogens being used as a tool, I'd say that the Native American cultures, Native African, Native Australian, etc... cultures had it right thousands of years ago. treat the plant as sacred, and truely respect it's power. It has the ability to change not only your outlook on life, but change who you are an a person. Many could even kill you if taken without care. So use the drug (don't make it illegal and throw people in jail for it's use. We have alot of evidence that doesn't work very well) in small, controlled amounts, see where it takes you on the most minute of doses. consider what you lost to get there, and what you gained. weigh the differences, and if deemed worth it, try a little more. Don't go to a party, fall into peer presure, and completely trip out. you learn something from this expirience, yes, but the price your body pays for the limited amount which you can truely bring back form the expirience is huge.
Use things as they are needed. Utilise things as they are usefull.
/rant mode off/
So they alter consious perception. Taking halucenogens in limited amounts could open up outlooks on situations or on life in general that would be very difficult to do on your own. However, taking halucinogens in amounts which cut off your connection to the corpreal world causes them to be a hinderance in understanding, not a tool. Just as nailing in a dry-wall nail with a sledge hammer would not be a very good idea, taking large doses of LSD to understand the universe is not going to be helpful in the long run.
now, keep in mind that there is a huge difference between refined halucinogens and naturally occuring halucinogens. In short term, long term effects, mostly due to dosage level differences, taking a gram of a refined substance is vastly different than taking a gram of the same substance, when sitll in it's unrefined state.
So one peyote button=tiny, tiny, tiny dose of pure mescaline. Plus, by refining mescaline, you remove the safely feature of natural peyote-if you eat too much peyote, you throw up long before any perminant damage is done to your body. with refined mescaline, the vomit inducing chemical compounds have largely been removed.
As for LSD, it is the pnumatic telephone pole driving machine in terms of the nail/wallboard example above. To use LSD as a tool, and not abuse it to destructive ends, requires a huge amount of care and respect. more care and respect than even Timothy Leary gave to LSD while he used it.
As far as halucinogens being used as a tool, I'd say that the Native American cultures, Native African, Native Australian, etc... cultures had it right thousands of years ago. treat the plant as sacred, and truely respect it's power. It has the ability to change not only your outlook on life, but change who you are an a person. Many could even kill you if taken without care. So use the drug (don't make it illegal and throw people in jail for it's use. We have alot of evidence that doesn't work very well) in small, controlled amounts, see where it takes you on the most minute of doses. consider what you lost to get there, and what you gained. weigh the differences, and if deemed worth it, try a little more. Don't go to a party, fall into peer presure, and completely trip out. you learn something from this expirience, yes, but the price your body pays for the limited amount which you can truely bring back form the expirience is huge.
Use things as they are needed. Utilise things as they are usefull.
/rant mode off/
I think what is difficult to comprehend is the utter reality of the experiences under the influence of plants such as Salvia Divinorum.
Under the influence of Salivorum A you can experience being in several places at the same time Its not made up ... you are actually doing it as though it was real life. You can travel far beyond your physical body and will yourself into other lives, even into other objects!
You can feel the whole cosmos breathing through everything with everything at its centre.
Imagined or not, real or not, its as real as me typing here!
Peace
c20
Under the influence of Salivorum A you can experience being in several places at the same time
Its not made up ... you are actually doing it as though it was real life. You can travel far beyond your physical body and will yourself into other lives, even into other objects!You can feel the whole cosmos breathing through everything with everything at its centre.
Imagined or not, real or not, its as real as me typing here!
Peace
c20
H
Halcyon
Guest
I've read much about salvia. I've heard accounts of being able to recall entire lives lived as another person, traveling through space, dissolving into the earth and traveling through it, etc... Although I do not support the practice of using drugs(personally, I have tried nearly everything, once, solely for understanding the experience) I have been curious to experience some of these effects for myself.
Oh yeah, the reason for this post...I had some research papers on lsd and cognition, but after browsing that webmd site and seeing what they have to offer I wouldn't be adding much....
Oh yeah, the reason for this post...I had some research papers on lsd and cognition, but after browsing that webmd site and seeing what they have to offer I wouldn't be adding much....
I agree with river wind 100% on every word.
I used to take anything whenever I could when i was in my teens. Something I've noticed since stopping taking drugs nearly altogether is that just living life is kind of a high in itself. I know that sounds lame, but there is so much seratonin action occurring on a everyday basis that you don't get if you are doing drugs all the time. I never realised, i just thought only children were happy and after that you need drugs, but if you let them get out of your system your brain starts working properly again and you can get little highs just looking out a window or feeling the sun on your face or anything. Drugs might feel awesome, but they are using up those awesome feelings and you'll miss them later. Last time I took an E I noticed this because I hadn't had anything for ages and I went from everyday happy, to incredibly e-happy to the extreme that night, and for the next week it was like I couldn't feel happy no matter what. Thats the problem, if you blast yourself on e's now you'll get to be 50 and will never be able to feel happy again. It would fucking suck.
I still think its beneficial to try drugs at some stage in your life, they can help you have thoughts that would be impossible without them and you can get wierd perspectives you never would have imagined. But it sucks to get stuck in an artificial frame of mind which is what happens if you take drugs too often. Any drug. You should experience drugs, not live off them, as attractive as it seems when you're young.
It is wierd and kinda cool to notice how playing with your brain can change every aspect of reality. Even your sense of touch, you think its a constant solid definate thing that will always be there, you don't even think about how your brain is what interprets it, but with a little lsd it can be thrown off completely and wood can feel like marshmallows. Same goes for every sense and drugs can even invent senses in your head that didn't previously exist.
Does anyone else get 'atmospheres' when they're on a drug? Like the night is 'themed'? Hard to explain, like everything looks a certain way and you feel a certain way and the those 2 ways go together. Like your vision might seem grainy and bleak and you feel like an old soviet or something, or everythings bright and colourful and cheery and you feel like a happy little character from a childrens story book? thats the best, being extremely happy is great while its happening but being wacked out into a completely different world is a great experience to remember forever.
Still, 'in moderation' really is the best advice as cliche as it sounds. The first time you try something is always the best, the more you do it the less special it gets untill its nothing more than something you need to make it through the day. All the things that made you like it in the first place just don't happen anymore and it becomes just like quenching a thirst.
Thats what happened to me with weed, people go on about how harmless weed is but quitting marijuana was definately the best thing I've ever done, without question.
I used to take anything whenever I could when i was in my teens. Something I've noticed since stopping taking drugs nearly altogether is that just living life is kind of a high in itself. I know that sounds lame, but there is so much seratonin action occurring on a everyday basis that you don't get if you are doing drugs all the time. I never realised, i just thought only children were happy and after that you need drugs, but if you let them get out of your system your brain starts working properly again and you can get little highs just looking out a window or feeling the sun on your face or anything. Drugs might feel awesome, but they are using up those awesome feelings and you'll miss them later. Last time I took an E I noticed this because I hadn't had anything for ages and I went from everyday happy, to incredibly e-happy to the extreme that night, and for the next week it was like I couldn't feel happy no matter what. Thats the problem, if you blast yourself on e's now you'll get to be 50 and will never be able to feel happy again. It would fucking suck.
I still think its beneficial to try drugs at some stage in your life, they can help you have thoughts that would be impossible without them and you can get wierd perspectives you never would have imagined. But it sucks to get stuck in an artificial frame of mind which is what happens if you take drugs too often. Any drug. You should experience drugs, not live off them, as attractive as it seems when you're young.
It is wierd and kinda cool to notice how playing with your brain can change every aspect of reality. Even your sense of touch, you think its a constant solid definate thing that will always be there, you don't even think about how your brain is what interprets it, but with a little lsd it can be thrown off completely and wood can feel like marshmallows. Same goes for every sense and drugs can even invent senses in your head that didn't previously exist.
Does anyone else get 'atmospheres' when they're on a drug? Like the night is 'themed'? Hard to explain, like everything looks a certain way and you feel a certain way and the those 2 ways go together. Like your vision might seem grainy and bleak and you feel like an old soviet or something, or everythings bright and colourful and cheery and you feel like a happy little character from a childrens story book? thats the best, being extremely happy is great while its happening but being wacked out into a completely different world is a great experience to remember forever.
Still, 'in moderation' really is the best advice as cliche as it sounds. The first time you try something is always the best, the more you do it the less special it gets untill its nothing more than something you need to make it through the day. All the things that made you like it in the first place just don't happen anymore and it becomes just like quenching a thirst.
Thats what happened to me with weed, people go on about how harmless weed is but quitting marijuana was definately the best thing I've ever done, without question.
Dr Lou Natic said:
Cliche or not thats a very true statement. Psychedelics are abused and this is a terrible thing. Doing drugs to enhance the 'party' atmosphere is also wrong imo.
I may take a psychedelic substance 2 or 3 times in 4 years but the experiences are well prepared and meditated on before undertaking. In other words, when i enter my dream body, I know what I am doing ( well for most of the time
).These things are to be treated with respect. Shamanic elders restricted the use of psychedelics in their communities because there is nothing worse than getting 'lost' on a journey. The trouble is that todays society screams out prohibition but uses weak medical reasons to justify the bans. Having said that it is legal to grow and prepare Salvia Divinorum and is widely available on the net.
Ecstacy (E) on the other hand is a nasty piece of work. In fact most designer drugs concocted in a lab are pretty nasty and I would avoid them for health reasons.
Stick to nature and treat her with respect and you may learn the most incredible things.
Peace
c20
I once heard a story about a Tibetan monk who had been practicing deep meditation the last 30 years of his life. He agreed to take 3 hits of LSD and when asked how he felt he responded, "You mean this is not how you feel at all times?"
Here is the link to a similar story:
http://www.uwec.edu/greider/Buddha/Buddhism.Course/student.culturetexts.'01/oloughrp.psychedelics/psychedlic.htm
Here is the link to a similar story:
http://www.uwec.edu/greider/Buddha/Buddhism.Course/student.culturetexts.'01/oloughrp.psychedelics/psychedlic.htm
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LSD affects people differently not only because of the different types or amounts of LSD in the "hit" but also because of the way everyone is made up, mentally speaking that is. There's 100 micrograms and up per hit. Sometimes theres up to 500 or even 1000 mics in one hit so you must be carefull as to what the dosage is. Then there's the different types such as orange sunshine, purple haze, window pane, and the LSD 25 which is the purest form that I know of, it is better known as "clinical acid".
Each of these type has something "cut" into it making the "high" different and reacting upon your body differently. Some are cut with speed, strychnine and other things that alter the drugs ability in ways that cause problems sometimes. You never, ever know what's in the "hit" you get unless you know your supplier very well and can trust them with your life, if not then you take a risk of going on a bad "trip" and very bad things can and will happen to you. Never take anything EVER, that you don't know all about it. To much of a dosage the first time will also cause you to go on a bad trip. Be certain that you don't take more than 100 micrograms the first time and if your not certain of the dosage then DON"T TAKE ANYTHING!
Each of these type has something "cut" into it making the "high" different and reacting upon your body differently. Some are cut with speed, strychnine and other things that alter the drugs ability in ways that cause problems sometimes. You never, ever know what's in the "hit" you get unless you know your supplier very well and can trust them with your life, if not then you take a risk of going on a bad "trip" and very bad things can and will happen to you. Never take anything EVER, that you don't know all about it. To much of a dosage the first time will also cause you to go on a bad trip. Be certain that you don't take more than 100 micrograms the first time and if your not certain of the dosage then DON"T TAKE ANYTHING!
Some people have the ability to "see outside the box" with no aid from drugs.
Psychoactive drugs such as LSD or psilocybin place you outside the box. You see just how the walls are constructed from the other side.
Personally, I've experienced time distortion where I experienced the future. It was as if I was somehow "seeing" the fourth dimension, not unlike we normally preceive the three dimensions most familiar to us.
And they say people shouldn't use these things... :m:
Psychoactive drugs such as LSD or psilocybin place you outside the box. You see just how the walls are constructed from the other side.
Personally, I've experienced time distortion where I experienced the future. It was as if I was somehow "seeing" the fourth dimension, not unlike we normally preceive the three dimensions most familiar to us.
And they say people shouldn't use these things... :m: