Civilian casualties is only one possible moral issue for a soldier. There is torture, shooting people surrendering, directly killing known civilians - saying shooting children at close range - treatment of prisoners, use of WOMDs, respecting or not respecting the other side's medical personnel, having your own medical personnel treat some of the other side's casualties, rape of men or women on the other side, civilian or military, poisoning crops, wells, destruction of cultural artifacts solely to demoralize, the use of cluster bombs or land mines that will kills civilians often children after combat is over, fragging of incompetent soldiers on one's own side, how and when one sacrifices one's own fellow soldiers for certain goals, how one punishes infractions
that's just some of the potential moral issues I can think of off the top of my head.
Most armies have set some limitations on what they consider ethical, certainly the US military has.
So I can't really see how you and RO (noticed in your quote here) can dismiss the entire issue. Unless you are both really advocating total war, no restrictions whatsoever on both command and troops on the ground - iow words raping enemy children would be acceptable. One can think of some of the things that went on as Jugoslavia broke up, for example. Are you really saying once the war starts there are no moral decisions to be made in relation to the enemy and you would defend ANY behavior at all as long as it hurt the other side somehow?
Doreen, after a more careful reading of the above post...
Prompted by this post...Randwolf,
you are completely misunderstanding my post. I never even weighed in on my own ideas about wartime ethics and what they should be. I was shocked that people considered the topic meaningless and seemed to be basically saying to the OP writer that the topic should not even be talked about, war is hell, all if fair in it, period. I think that is very strange and I would guess that both of these people would, in fact, protest certain decisions by their buddies or by officers above them ON ETHICAL GROUNDS.
Do you think the topic is meaningless?
If you do you are going against the actions and decisions made by soldiers both in the field and in command posts and in classrooms in peacetime, where the issues are confronted, often with great bravery. Somehow you took my post as saying that soldiers are bad if they are not nice and fight with Marquis de Queensbury rules, etc., etc. I have not asserted that.
Context is important and I feel like you took my posts out of context and then interpreted them in the worst possible way.
I used extreme examples to see if the people saying there was no discussion to be had really thought everything was moral and there was no need to even consider such issues. I mentioned Yugoslavia because there, for example, children were killed not because they were threats but sometimes just for fun or because of who they might someday grow up to be. And where rape was used systematically, in other words cold bloodedly as a weapon. Maybe those guys really think that kind of stuff is OK. But I find it odd that they think the issue is not even worth discussing.
For all you know I might be more understanding than you about what soldiers do, especially in the heat of battle. Please let me take a stand before you judge it.
I offer my apologies - in fact, I see that you take no stand on any actual or hypothetical events whatsoever. You simply point out that someone should, maybe.
Fine, apologies again, but due to reasons I think you can infer from my reply post, this particular quote:
[emphasis mine] kind of hit a nerve. I ran with it without considering the subtelties in your post.Civilian casualties is only one possible moral issue for a soldier. There is torture, shooting people surrendering, directly killing known civilians - saying shooting children at close range...