Masculinity and men
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This is what the entire pressure to make men heterosexual by forcing them away from their so-called same-sex desires, hinges on.Buddha1 said:
And you can well appreciate what it must mean to men --- by how it was justfied by the ancient society to kill someone who accuses you of being a feminine gendered male who has receptive anal sex.
Do you see the anamoly/ absurdity here:Buddha1 said:
a.) First you mix up the masculine gendered male's and feminine gendered male's sexual needs for men (again for masculine gendered as well as feminine gendered males) into one head 'homosexual', which originally only belongs to the feminine gendered males.
b.) And then you use the 'fact' that both are called 'homosexuals' to 'prove' that masculine gendered males who like other masculine gendered males are feminine gendered too!
Although, if you take masculine gendered men (today's straight men) and look behind their heteroseuxal masks, you'll find a sizable number of men who find sex with women quite yucky. But I would be surprised if I actually meet a masculine gendered (i.e. straight man of today) who does not secretly feel a sexual need for other men.Buddha1 said:
"a.) In medieval/ ancient days, there was no concept of homosexuality as we know it today."
No, they had no concept of sexual orientation. Sex was an act.
And the man who played a passive role in the act, who allowed himself to be penetrated, was held in contempt.
Why are you saying "no" and agreeing with me?
And why are you talking to yourself? What is wrong with you?
No, they had no concept of sexual orientation. Sex was an act.
And the man who played a passive role in the act, who allowed himself to be penetrated, was held in contempt.
Why are you saying "no" and agreeing with me?
And why are you talking to yourself? What is wrong with you?
Xev, now don't tell me that you agree with me that 'homosexuality' is an invalid identity. That there is no such thing as a homosexual or a heterosexual. Because, unless you do that, I was perfectly right in explaining things to you!Xev said:
Women and their sarcasm!!!Xev said:
You forgot my pretty pink dress with yellow polka dots.
Try inventing your own insults. It'll lend credence to your persona.
I’m honored to be in the presence of a man’s man, who loves taking it up the shit-hole and who then tries to excuse his obsession by turning the tables on those that make him feel so…odd and guilty for it.
But I bet you loooove your asshole.
You mean like this:
How...manly!
I think you are a delicate flower - a delicate flower that is frightened by women and wants to give in to masculine power and become someone’s willing and always ready anal cavity.
An unappreciated imbecile, you are, wanting a way out of self-hatred.
What was it you used to recreate natural motive?
“The purpose to life is “meaningful existence”.
Huh?
That was precious.
I never knew nature had meaning. I thought meaning was a human invention meant to comfort and offer hope against existential anxiety. I thought meaning was a human construct, a memetic concept…just like your inanities concerning human sexuality.
I thought meaning was how man orders his environment into concepts.
But here the great homo sage Buddha1, who, in true Orwellian style, has re-baptized phenomena to fit them into his desired world-view, insinuates that sex is not about procreation but about bonding.
Bonding?
For what?
Sexual interaction precedes social unions. Sex can occur without bonding or long-term bonding.
Bonding occurs by suppressing individuality so as to join with another for a common purpose and for common interests.
Bonding occurs as a means to facilitate procreation, not the other way around.
Bonding serves a purpose and is a consequence of a weakness and a need.
The need is survival. The purpose is reproduction.
Bonding for “meaningful existence”.
What?!
Meaning is personal. It is the mind giving itself a context to live within. Meaning is a product of a conscious mind.
What’s “meaningful” about getting it up the ass, anyways?
That masculinity is being suppressed is obvious.
Femininity is being suppressed, as well.
All natural sexual tendencies are controlled by a social union. It's a technology that attempts to make procreation more efficient and to integrate as many individuals into a community of diverse interests.
But what is being suppressed is the full nature of masculine heterosexual behaviors, not imagined homosexual ones.
Homosexuality is a product of superfluity - usually coming to the forefront during a civilization’s final stages of decadence. Homosexuality is a sign of decline.
It is a purposeless activity with only symbolic significance, practiced in environments of abundance where all appreciation is lost and respect becomes unnecessary.
Homosexuality is a disease, a mutation with no way to reproduce itself.
So it finds ideology, memetic, viral procreative strategies to replicate itself.
When sex has lost its purpose then gender identities become ambiguous.
Sex is practiced as a means of entertainment, expending energy with no outcome but mental comfort and escapism, and as a means of placating personal existential anxieties.
It ceases being productive. It is energy wasted and thrown away, in a culture where everything is thrown away and everything can be bought and sold.
In more austere environments energy’s are precious and so acts carry the weight of consequences and purpose. A sexual relationship isn’t how nature keeps us happy, it is how nature enforces her rules upon our rational mind and makes us act, sometimes, against our better judgments.
In austere environments relationships have a seriousness about them. They are not trivial ways of finding personal fulfillment or of escaping reality.
In austere environments sex matters and so it returns to its original purpose, attraction becomes what it was intended to be, a means of enabling procreation.
It is only in our modern pampered, sheltered artificial environments that man squanders everything, including sexual energy and tolerates everything.
Our equalitarian system offers the perfect environment for such genetic mutations to flourish.
One supposes that when a species is allowed to reproduce without any controlling natural constraints and few predators to weed out weakness and illness, and when it is protected and shielded from nature, that it will deteriorate genetically and allow genetic mutations to gain viability.
A domesticated herd, that is fenced in and protected from the natural methods of weeding out genetic failures, will inevitably become susceptible to illness and genetic mutation that are left unchecked.
Buddha1 is the perfect example of this.
He takes a social phenomenon, meant for dominance symbolism and alleviating internal strife, and which is most probably a result of hormonal imbalances creating sexual hybrids with ambiguous sexual identities, being physically one and mentally the other or being confused by multiple attractions, and he constructs a premise to make them the norm.
This is exactly how memetic procreation attempts to usurp genetic procreation. A meme infects the brain, causing it to act contrary to its genetic code and making it genetically unfit to procreate. It’s only other option for continuance is infecting other minds.
But, like I said, one must differentiate between the homosexual act and homosexual attraction.
The homosexual act, can be used as an alternative or as a way to establish status or as a way to punish. A male can perform a homosexual act without being a homosexual, under certain environmental condition.
Homosexual attraction is something else, entirely. It is an abnormality with no genetic feasibility, which can only persist in environments of plenty and of tolerance, such as our own.
If it is allowed to flourish it attempts to become memetically viable.
I'm outa here.
Have fun children.
The little girlie with hairy arms is anxious to perform her dance item at another stage!!!Satyr said:You forgot my pretty pink dress with yellow polka dots.
Try inventing your own insults. It'll lend credence to your persona.
I’m honored to be in the presence of a man’s man, who loves taking it up the shit-hole and who then tries to excuse his obsession by turning the tables on those that make him feel so…odd and guilty for it.
But I bet you loooove your asshole.
You mean like this:
How...manly!
I think you are a delicate flower - a delicate flower that is frightened by women and wants to give in to masculine power and become someone’s willing and always ready anal cavity.
An unappreciated imbecile, you are, wanting a way out of self-hatred.
What was it you used to recreate natural motive?
“The purpose to life is “meaningful existence”.
Huh?
That was precious.
I never knew nature had meaning. I thought meaning was a human invention meant to comfort and offer hope against existential anxiety. I thought meaning was a human construct, a memetic concept…just like your inanities concerning human sexuality.
I thought meaning was how man orders his environment into concepts.
But here the great homo sage Buddha1, who, in true Orwellian style, has re-baptized phenomena to fit them into his desired world-view, insinuates that sex is not about procreation but about bonding.
Bonding?
For what?
Sexual interaction precedes social unions. Sex can occur without bonding or long-term bonding.
Bonding occurs by suppressing individuality so as to join with another for a common purpose and for common interests.
Bonding occurs as a means to facilitate procreation, not the other way around.
Bonding serves a purpose and is a consequence of a weakness and a need.
The need is survival. The purpose is reproduction.
Bonding for “meaningful existence”.
What?!
Meaning is personal. It is the mind giving itself a context to live within. Meaning is a product of a conscious mind.
What’s “meaningful” about getting it up the ass, anyways?
That masculinity is being suppressed is obvious.
Femininity is being suppressed, as well.
All natural sexual tendencies are controlled by a social union. It's a technology that attempts to make procreation more efficient and to integrate as many individuals into a community of diverse interests.
But what is being suppressed is the full nature of masculine heterosexual behaviors, not imagined homosexual ones.
Homosexuality is a product of superfluity - usually coming to the forefront during a civilization’s final stages of decadence. Homosexuality is a sign of decline.
It is a purposeless activity with only symbolic significance, practiced in environments of abundance where all appreciation is lost and respect becomes unnecessary.
Homosexuality is a disease, a mutation with no way to reproduce itself.
So it finds ideology, memetic, viral procreative strategies to replicate itself.
When sex has lost its purpose then gender identities become ambiguous.
Sex is practiced as a means of entertainment, expending energy with no outcome but mental comfort and escapism, and as a means of placating personal existential anxieties.
It ceases being productive. It is energy wasted and thrown away, in a culture where everything is thrown away and everything can be bought and sold.
In more austere environments energy’s are precious and so acts carry the weight of consequences and purpose. A sexual relationship isn’t how nature keeps us happy, it is how nature enforces her rules upon our rational mind and makes us act, sometimes, against our better judgments.
In austere environments relationships have a seriousness about them. They are not trivial ways of finding personal fulfillment or of escaping reality.
In austere environments sex matters and so it returns to its original purpose, attraction becomes what it was intended to be, a means of enabling procreation.
It is only in our modern pampered, sheltered artificial environments that man squanders everything, including sexual energy and tolerates everything.
Our equalitarian system offers the perfect environment for such genetic mutations to flourish.
One supposes that when a species is allowed to reproduce without any controlling natural constraints and few predators to weed out weakness and illness, and when it is protected and shielded from nature, that it will deteriorate genetically and allow genetic mutations to gain viability.
A domesticated herd, that is fenced in and protected from the natural methods of weeding out genetic failures, will inevitably become susceptible to illness and genetic mutation that are left unchecked.
Buddha1 is the perfect example of this.
He takes a social phenomenon, meant for dominance symbolism and alleviating internal strife, and which is most probably a result of hormonal imbalances creating sexual hybrids with ambiguous sexual identities, being physically one and mentally the other or being confused by multiple attractions, and he constructs a premise to make them the norm.
This is exactly how memetic procreation attempts to usurp genetic procreation. A meme infects the brain, causing it to act contrary to its genetic code and making it genetically unfit to procreate. It’s only other option for continuance is infecting other minds.
But, like I said, one must differentiate between the homosexual act and homosexual attraction.
The homosexual act, can be used as an alternative or as a way to establish status or as a way to punish. A male can perform a homosexual act without being a homosexual, under certain environmental condition.
Homosexual attraction is something else, entirely. It is an abnormality with no genetic feasibility, which can only persist in environments of plenty and of tolerance, such as our own.
If it is allowed to flourish it attempts to become memetically viable.
I'm outa here.
Have fun children.
Satyr: ......oooohhh how I hate I didn't have a dick!!!
Buddha1 said:
Many people do this. It's called "doing the right thing". Smiling when they don't want to, giving extra when they don't want to, saying something nice when they'd rather say something mean, etc.
Whether it's right or not depends on who they are, and who they're being influenced by at the time.
All biological lifeforms exist so they can spread their code and multiply.
Why else would we be here, duh!
From the simplest creatures on up, they all want to multiply. Why should we be any different?
And if you don't want to do that, there's something biologically wrong with you!
I get that urge every morning to have natural sex with women, in the hopes I can score a direct hit with my proton torpedoes, just like "Lucky" Luke Skywalker against the the Death Star. My whole conscious (and unconscious) purpose is to hit the target so the torpedoes will travel to the core of the station and cause a "chain reaction"!
Of course, that chain reaction is CONCEPTION! The "explosion" is the actual baby emerging into the world. The miracle of life! The only reason I get up in the morning.
Gah!
Satyr, you're the greatest. I don't think anyone can argue with you. You know it all!
Don't wait! Mate! Procreate!
Why else would we be here, duh!
From the simplest creatures on up, they all want to multiply. Why should we be any different?
And if you don't want to do that, there's something biologically wrong with you!
I get that urge every morning to have natural sex with women, in the hopes I can score a direct hit with my proton torpedoes, just like "Lucky" Luke Skywalker against the the Death Star. My whole conscious (and unconscious) purpose is to hit the target so the torpedoes will travel to the core of the station and cause a "chain reaction"!
Of course, that chain reaction is CONCEPTION! The "explosion" is the actual baby emerging into the world. The miracle of life! The only reason I get up in the morning.
Gah!
Satyr, you're the greatest. I don't think anyone can argue with you. You know it all!
Don't wait! Mate! Procreate!
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This is particularly in regards to sex with women. Man just do not have an option when a woman approaches him for sex. It's either do it or be ready to be called an impotent man or worse a 'homo'!Buddha1 said:
And its not so with many men. It's so with most men.
And its the opposite of this rule with regards to sexual need for men. Here the rule is:
When men want to say yes, they say "no"!
Buddha1 said:
Buddha, you cultural icon you!
Its true. You've seen that part of straight men yourself. At least a glimpse of it. I see it happening all around me!Buddha1 said:
Homosexual men can be pretty open about their sexual need for men. Because being deprived of 'social masculinity' is not too much of an issue for them. But for straight men for whom its a matter of life and death, they are extremely careful about how they express or fulfil (albeit superficially) their sexual need for men.
Straight men would cover up their sexual attraction for men in several ways, with a lot of added machismo, but would still in a very subdued tone signal their sexual interest in another man. This 'another' man would usually be someone they know has 'sexual interest in men' --- and would be straight himself. They may be rude to the man, treat him like he doesn't exist, but still signal a strong attraction. Then they wait for the other man to make a move. The one with lesser 'social masculinity' is always expected to make a move.
If the object of his sexual desire confronts the straight man and acknowledge mutual attraction, the straight man would vehemently deny this. EVen break the 'relationship' --- if you can call it that.
They will have sex with men and then say that they have no interest in men at all.
I'll just say right now, that I didn't mean to imply that this was merely YOUR culture. I got sidetracked in another thread. I'll write more in just a moment.
For the last one year I have been counseling this homosexual man who is in a relationship with a straight man for more than two years. The homosexual man is 36 years old, while the straight guy is about 21 years. The straight guy has maintained all along that he has no interest in men whatsoever, but he just likes that one particular man. He says his real interest is in women.
The straight guy who is in a university, watches girl porno for hours everyday on the computer system of the homosexual man (the straight guy is poor adn can't afford a computer system!). The homosexual man resents this.
The straight guy masturbates several times in a week over girl porn. They have had several big fights about it. Now the homosexual man has caught the straight man with 'proofs' of masturbating over girl porn in his absence.
The interesting thing is that the straight guy is madly in love with the homosexual guy in these two years. He cries bitterly when they have fights and in anger sometimes talks about suicide. He can't stay away from the homosexual man, and has fought with his family members to be able to spend more and more nights in the latters place. He just wants to be with the gay man, night and day. He is extremely jealous about him. Eventhough he doesn't like the femininity of the homosexual man --- even though the homosexual man is only slightly feminine while he goes to gym and has a perfect body. So now the homosexual man is under a great pressure to appear masculine.
But even then he still maintains that he has no sexual interest in men.
The straight guy who is in a university, watches girl porno for hours everyday on the computer system of the homosexual man (the straight guy is poor adn can't afford a computer system!). The homosexual man resents this.
The straight guy masturbates several times in a week over girl porn. They have had several big fights about it. Now the homosexual man has caught the straight man with 'proofs' of masturbating over girl porn in his absence.
The interesting thing is that the straight guy is madly in love with the homosexual guy in these two years. He cries bitterly when they have fights and in anger sometimes talks about suicide. He can't stay away from the homosexual man, and has fought with his family members to be able to spend more and more nights in the latters place. He just wants to be with the gay man, night and day. He is extremely jealous about him. Eventhough he doesn't like the femininity of the homosexual man --- even though the homosexual man is only slightly feminine while he goes to gym and has a perfect body. So now the homosexual man is under a great pressure to appear masculine.
But even then he still maintains that he has no sexual interest in men.
Thought of the day
It's his association with other men who are masculine gendered, that makes a male a man; not his association with women.
His associations with women (and feminine gendered males (both homosexuals and real heterosexuals)) takes him towards his femininity and make him two-spirited.
It's positive but not the essence of 'manhood' or 'straighthood' --- not what being a (masculine) man is all about!
In other words, your natural masculinity does not develop when you're making out with women but when you're hanging out with (an)other masculine gendered male(s).
Buddha1 said:
Sounds confusing!
Yes, I did witness this once or twice. Or more often than that, but the hints are often subtle, because there is no real dialogue on those occurences.
The one instance where there was no doubt of the attraction, it happened exactly as you illustrated. BOTH of us played this "game" of every kind of subtle hint BUT actually coming out and saying it. It was painfully obvious that he liked to be around me, and the he liked me, period.
Well, yes, I finally got up the courage to confront this person, and announce my feelings for him, and yes, he did vehemently deny it. The manner in which he did it was rather unbelievable. Some of the things he said, and the denials (like denying he remembered a certain HIGHLY SUSPECT incident) was basically lying.
Now, I cannot honestly say this proves your contention that 95% of men have these urges! I have not encountered this with that amount of men I have known.
What it DOES validate, is the notion that social masculinity and the pressures it confronts men with, will make them lie and deny in order to save face.
Someone once asked how this is a life and death issue for men. Well, SOME men treat it as such. Otherwise they wouldn't play such silly games.
If these pressures were non-existent, "faggot" would NOT be a dirty word. "Homo" would not be a dreaded label that people will do anything to keep away from their reputations.
Or, take Satyr and his recent comments. He finds it reasonable to denigrate homosexuality or same-sex attraction as being biologically unsound, and makes these references to memes or viruses that must INFECT people, instead of passing themselves on biologically.
I'm not implying anything about his sexuality because of that, lest he get any ideas or ammunition to use against me
, but his motives certainly are unclear. Why does he feel a need to prop himself up, under such an ideal? Such an ideal implies that he is superior in some way because what he describes is "other". This "other" is biologically impractical and inviable. He implies that he is NOT this "other" and therefore he is viable.
Buddha1 said:
I suppose one could say that ONLY when you're hanging out with masculine gendered males, that you are able to brag about your sexual exploits with women, and thus build up your social masculine image.
One COULD say that.
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