Luminiferous Aether Exists!

[Mazulu]

Mazulu, et al,

First, let me say, I read all 52 entries. I'll be honest, I don't understand it all. Yet, I really don't see an answer to this, which I think is rather obvious.


(COMMENT)

Well, a virtual photon is something mentioned in numerous experiences. They are often mentioned being bounced off mirrors.

Example

So, it would seem to me, that one could make a cube of mirrors, evacuate the center (vacuum) and then bounce the virtual protons off the outside, yet shoot an RF signal right through the mirror cage. The RF signal will propagate through the cage, where the virtual proton will not.

I'm confused. Whatever it is that is necessary to allow the RF signal to propagate through the vacuum inside the mirror cube, it does not appear to be the "virtual proton."

Most Respectfully,
R

Hi Rocco,
Virtual photons are the carriers of electromagnetism.

The concept of virtual particles arises in the perturbation theory of quantum field theory, an approximation scheme in which interactions (in essence, forces) between real particles are calculated in terms of exchanges of virtual particles. Any process involving virtual particles admits a schematic representation known as a Feynman diagram, which facilitates the understanding of calculations.

When you look at the picture of the Feynman diagram, it shows a virtual particle as a wave. Virtual particles exchange momentum between charged particles, or the particle and the electric or magnetic field it's in. Alphanumeric and others know more about it, but it's really just an excitation of the waves of the aether medium. Virtual particles obey the relationship, $$\Delta E \Delta t <=\frac{h}{2 \pi}$$

 

[Mazulu]

The difference between the fields of QFT AND the waves of the aetherial medium is that:
Aether waves establish the physical properties of the vacuum. They establish distance (via the wavelength of each wave), evolution of time (via the period and frequency of each wave in the bandwidth), c, permitivity and permeabiility of free space, and a means to transmit the gravity field across space. Schrodinger and others who developed quantum mechanics created the Schrodinger equation. It's solutions, for zero potential energy, are waves. The wave solutions to the Schrodinger equation, which are a form of mathematics, are a description of the aether waves. When there are electric charges around, as is the case with the hydrogen atom, the aether waves look like this. The hydrogen atom wavefunction is a description of the aether manifestation of the hydrogen atom. Thus, the hydrogen atom can interconnect with the waves of the aether; this allows it to emit and absorb electromagnetic radiation by virtue of the fact they are made of like material (aether).

 

[Prof.Layman]

I think the aether could start making a come back soon with the discovery of the Higgs Boson, but to be more scientifically correct we would have to call it the Higgs Field. That would explain why it wasn't picked up in the Michelson & Morley Experiments, was because light has no interaction with the Higgs Field only particles that have mass. Or their mass is explained by it having an interaction with the Higgs Field. I think our current goal should be trying to find curvature in the Higgs Field, to better search for a quantum theory of gravity. I don't think the Higgs Boson itself is a result of the curvature of space that is caused by gravity because of the nature of the interactions that cause the Higgs Boson in itself. Although it could be possible that the Higgs Boson curves the Higgs Feild. If it did it would allow us to finally have the amounts of gravity needed in order to detect gravity in an accelerator, an underlying problem in quantum gravity is that it just didn't come up in significant amounts, since a Higgs Boson is hundreds times more massive than a proton.

 

[quant]

I have a theory That is very similar to that of Mazulus that I have called Gestalt Theory ( it is posted at this forum), in which I postulated that since electrons and protons have very long lives ( about 10 [sup]22[/sup] years), it maybe possible that photons have equally long lives. How ? The answer lies in Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle which states that:

a)the principle that energy and time

$$ \Delta E\Delta t \geq \frac{1}{2}\hbar$$

b)or position and momentum of a quantum mechanical system,

$$ \Delta m\Delta p \geq \frac{1}{2}\hbar$$

cannot both be accurately measured simultaneously. The product of their uncertainties is always greater than or of the order of h, where h is the Planck constant. If the first equation is examined it can be seen that if the energy of the particle ( photon) is very low , on the order of 10 [sup]-19[/sup] eV, then the the time for which it can exist becomes indeterminate. (i.e., it can exist practically forever.) It is possible that during, or just after, the Big Bang photons flooded every corner of the Universe, and that they continue to exist as virtual photons of very low energy. The properties of such a 'virtual photon ' aether would be that it was:

1) It would be tasteless

2) Odourless

3) Undetectable

4) Would pass through matter without any difficulty, since no atom would react with photons of such low energy.

5) Would serve as medium for the transport of electromagnetic radiation.

6) Would be an explanation for why the speed of light is constant.

7) Would totally explain the Double slit experiment.

8) Occupies the whole Universe

In other words these properties of the aether would make the Michelson-Morley experiment absoultely irrelevant, since the aether it describes is absolutekly different from the properties of the 'luminiferous' aether that they were looking for.

(N.B. If you are interested in this topic you can look up the link to Gestalt Theory given above, there are several diagrams and concepts that will make the subject easy to follow. )

 

[Gerhard Kemmerer]

1) It would be tasteless

2) Odourless

3) Undetectable

4) Would pass through matter without any difficulty, since no atom would react with photons of such low energy.

5) Would serve as medium for the transport of electromagnetic radiation.

6) Would be an explanation for why the speed of light is constant.

7) Would totally explain the Double slit experiment.

8) Occupies the whole Universe

In other words these properties of the aether would make the Michelson-Morley experiment absoultely irrelevant, since the aether it describes is absolutekly different from the properties of the 'luminiferous' aether that they were looking for.

(N.B. If you are interested in this topic you can look up the link to Gestalt Theory given above, there are several diagrams and concepts that will make the subject easy to follow. )

From what I have studied, this invisible medium or power, has those properties you listed, only it makes up every particle of matter, so that matter is comprised of it and is actually the visible proof of its existence.

With this model it would be difficult to say whether matter/wave/energy is propogated by itself or through a medium,
- it does not need a medium, and yet acts like it has, because it is operated by forces giving it a greater context to work with.

Without a greater context of power, matter shows many mysterious inexplicable anomoloies, like going backwards in time, disappearing and appearing, and so forth.

But with the context in place, these are perfectly normal and to be expected.

 

[quant]

From what I have studied, this invisible medium or power, has those properties you listed, only it makes up every particle of matter, so that matter is comprised of it and is actually the visible proof of its existence.

No, I am sorry you are missing the point. Matter is not made up of 'virtual photons' rather matter is completley indifferent to virtual photons, because they have such low energy that they cannot be absorbed or otherwise interact with matter. Because of this quality, they can pass with impunity through any substance regardless of the thickness, density etc., without interacting with it. The only exception that occurs is when photons are emitted or absorbed by electrons. When this happens the 'virtual photons' of the aether line themselves up in the direction of propagation of the 'real' photon, forming a line whose ends rest on infinity and the energy of the real photon travels along this line of virtual photons. Perhaps this will be clearer, if it is explained how photons are thought to be formed according to the Gestalt Theory:
It is well established that the electron is an electrically charged particle, it is equally well established that changes in an electron’s energy are mediated through the absorption and emission of photons. What could be more natural than that the matter that the electron is emitting and absorbing are pulses of electrical energy. Look at the following diagrams:







This is what a photon might look like. As can be seen it consists of pulses of electrical energy that have been emitted by an electron, encapsulated in a solenoidal electrical field. What are the properties of such a photon construction:-

1) The photon has no mass

2) It will always travel at the speed of c.

3) It is electrically neutral, meaning that it won’t be affected by electromagneticfields.

4) It will preserve its energy intact.

5) It has the properties of both a transverse wave and of a particle.

6) High energy photons would have a different emission system as compared to low energy photons such as radio waves.

7) It travels in straight lines until it is absorbed.


In short such a photon construction means that all of the criteria associated with a photon are realized. But how does the photon propagate through space. To answer this we have to return to the concept of a ‘virtual photon ’ aether. Let us assume that the ‘virtual photon’ aether is in random motion when at rest. When a real photon is emitted from an electron the ‘virtual photons’ along its line of propagation line up in a line whose ends rest on infinity. The real photon then travels along this line of ‘virtual photons’, till it either loses energy and joins the ‘virtual photon’ aether or till it is absorbed by a suitable electron in its path.

 

[origin]

5) Would serve as medium for the transport of electromagnetic radiation.

Why would these low energy photons be virtual photons?

How do photons act as a medium for photons?

What is the medium for the low energy photons since you seem to be implying that photons need a medium?

 

[quant]

Why would these low energy photons be virtual photons?

Hi Origin,
From reading a few of your posts, I know that you are familiar with the concept of 'virtual photoons' in the sense that an electron is constantly emitting and absorbing 'virtual photons' in a process of self interaction. The emission and absorption processes take place so fast, less than 10[sup]-15[/sup] sec. that the laws relating to the conservation of mass energy are not violated. This is one of the results predicted by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
$$
\Delta E\Delta t \geq \frac{1}{2}\hbar
$$
In this case since the time during which the interaction (emission or absorption of the photon) is accurately known the energy of the photon can be anything. This self interaction of electrons is also the reason that electrons do not radiate away all their energy and spiral into the nucleus as predicted by classical theory (i.e., Larmor radiation). However, a corollary to the uncertainty principle is that if the energy of a particle is below a certain threshold ( about 10 [sup]-19[/sup] eV) then the time over which the particle can exist becomes indeterminable, (i.e., a photon with such low energies can exist practically forever). If you wish to know how photons lose energy you can follow this link, I might add that it has to do with the inverse square law for the propagation of light.

How do photons act as a medium for photons?

The 'virtual photon' aether had its genesis right after or coincident with the Big Bang, the entire Universe, every part of it, was flooded with light. As they filled space these photons gradually lost their energy until they became 'virtual photons' each with an energy of less than 10[sup]-19[/sup] eV. Such low energies meant that these virtual photons could survive for practically (billions of years) ever without violating the laws of mass/energy conservation. Thus the Universe is filled with 'virtual light' The virtual photon aether is in effect a very weak electromagnetic type of aether consisting of innumerable tiny (10[sup]-7[/sup]- 10[sup]-8[/sup]) solenoidal points, that are oriented at random. When an elecrtron emits a real photon ( i.e., one that does not violate the conservation of energy laws) the virtual photons of the aether form up into a line whose ends rest on infinity and the energy of the real photon travels along this line of virtual photons.

What is the medium for the low energy photons since you seem to be implying that photons need a medium?

Ofcourse a medium is needed to propagate light, we know that light moves at a fixed velocity and not at an infinite velocity as would be the case if no medium were needed.

 

[Aqueous Id]

Ofcourse a medium is needed to propagate light

Except of course when it has no medium which is almost always.

 

[quant]

Except of course when it has no medium which is almost always.

Hi,
It seems you missed the last point made in the post, namely that it takes time for a signal, radio wave, light etc., to travel from one point to the other. This seems to indicate that there must be some kind of medium for the signal to travel through as otherwise communication would be instantaneous, no time lapse. It could be argued that this is because light (and EMR) always travels at a constant speed through a vacuum. The question then is why does light always travel at that speed ? Einstein merely postulated the principle of the constant speed of light, in much the same way that Newton postulated the laws of gravity, without being able to offer an explanation of why it works as it does. Incidentally gravity is also thought to exert its influence at the same speed (i.e., speed of light). Further to explain the working of gravity QM and the Standard Theory have put forward the higgs field (i.e., a medium). The great advantage of the weak electromagnetic type of aether that I have suggested is that it does away with the concept of multiple fields and offers a single explanation for all phenomena, including an explanation of why the speed of light (in a vacuum) is constant and the working of gravity.

 

[quant]

Unjustified assertions. Clearly it is possible to construct mathematical formulations of physical systems which do things like Kepler's laws without needing an aether. For example, you can derive general relativity and thus Kepler's laws from string theory. String theory just starts from the principles of quantised string oscillations. Space-time is then a massive ensemble of closed strings.

Hi AlphaNumeric,
Let me state at the outset that I consider it a great honour to be able to interact with you in these forums. I have visited your home page 'nongeometric' and also read some of your posts and have come to a considered opinion that your abilities are on a par (mathematically) with David Bohm, Einstein and (even) Newton. Please take note I have made the above statement with no intention of satire, it is a fact ! Having said that, I feel that you are so immersed in what is immiedately before you, that you stand the risk of ignoring the bigger picture. To put it colloquially you might be 'missing the wood for the trees'. Take string theory for example. String theory was evolved to meet the specific fact that QM was not able to integrate GR into its theory (or ethos) something that was essential for greater clarity and to make the theory as a whole work. Firthermore,it is well known that the generally established views on 'force' is that it is of a 'push/pull' nature. One could say that Newtons Laws epitomise this push/pull concept. My own theory 'Gestalt Theory' also supports this push/pull concept of 'force'. IF the gravitational force is considered to be of a push/pull nature, which it was at least by Newton, then consider that without this push/pull effect there would be no acceleration! It follows that if there is no acceleration, then there would be no General Relativity, from which follows the fact that there would be no 'string theory'. If you would do me the kindness of visiting my thread on the Gestalt Theory at this forum and giving your comments on it I woukld be greatly obliged.

 

[origin]

Hi Origin,
From reading a few of your posts, I know that you are familiar with the concept of 'virtual photoons' in the sense that an electron is constantly emitting and absorbing 'virtual photons' in a process of self interaction. The emission and absorption processes take place so fast, less than 10[sup]-15[/sup] sec. that the laws relating to the conservation of mass energy are not violated. This is one of the results predicted by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
$$
\Delta E\Delta t \geq \frac{1}{2}\hbar
$$

Great, but my question went unanswered.

If you wish to know how photons lose energy you can follow this link, I might add that it has to do with the inverse square law for the propagation of light.

I am aware that photons can lose energy. This has nothing to do with the inverse square law however.

The 'virtual photon' aether had its genesis right after or coincident with the Big Bang, the entire Universe, every part of it, was flooded with light. As they filled space these photons gradually lost their energy until they became 'virtual photons' each with an energy of less than 10[sup]-19[/sup] eV. Such low energies meant that these virtual photons could survive for practically (billions of years) ever without violating the laws of mass/energy conservation. Thus the Universe is filled with 'virtual light' The virtual photon aether is in effect a very weak electromagnetic type of aether consisting of innumerable tiny (10[sup]-7[/sup]- 10[sup]-8[/sup]) solenoidal points, that are oriented at random. When an elecrtron emits a real photon ( i.e., one that does not violate the conservation of energy laws) the virtual photons of the aether form up into a line whose ends rest on infinity and the energy of the real photon travels along this line of virtual photons.

You think virtual photons violate the convservation of energy? Sorry but this whole paragraph is virtual word salad.

Ofcourse a medium is needed to propagate light, we know that light moves at a fixed velocity and not at an infinite velocity as would be the case if no medium were needed.

So again my question is unanswered. What is the medium that exists for your so called photon medium. Is it photons all the way down?

 

[quant]

So again my question is unanswered. What is the medium that exists for your so called photon medium. Is it photons all the way down?

Yes, it is photons all the way. No other medium.
:wave:

 

[origin]

I suggest you give it up, this is really silly.

 

[Mazulu]

I think the aether could start making a come back soon with the discovery of the Higgs Boson, but to be more scientifically correct we would have to call it the Higgs Field. That would explain why it wasn't picked up in the Michelson & Morley Experiments, was because light has no interaction with the Higgs Field only particles that have mass. Or their mass is explained by it having an interaction with the Higgs Field. I think our current goal should be trying to find curvature in the Higgs Field, to better search for a quantum theory of gravity. I don't think the Higgs Boson itself is a result of the curvature of space that is caused by gravity because of the nature of the interactions that cause the Higgs Boson in itself. Although it could be possible that the Higgs Boson curves the Higgs Feild. If it did it would allow us to finally have the amounts of gravity needed in order to detect gravity in an accelerator, an underlying problem in quantum gravity is that it just didn't come up in significant amounts, since a Higgs Boson is hundreds times more massive than a proton.

What I'd like to know is what does a Higgs boson (or just a Higgs field) have to do with time dilation which is a a typical feature of gravity and curved space-time. My guess would be ~ nothing. I thought that the Higgs field was just a way to explain mass associated withe weak force. In my view, mass is just trapped light energy that can't radiate away. Even if we could find Hoggs bosons in some accelerator, what would we do with them? There doesn't seem to be any practical application for them.

In my view, we should be trying to figure out how light/electromagnetic radiation is connected to the vacuum of space. of space-time. I don't think that the stress energy tensor is the only way light can curve space-time. I'm still waiting for a wave-function that can describe a photon in a gravity field (or at least a g-field). I think that a repeating frequency sweep is sufficient to curve space-time. Anyway, I have to work on my experiment.

 

[quant]

String theory just starts from the principles of quantised string oscillations. Space-time is then a massive ensemble of closed strings.

I have some doubts. Take string theory for example. String theory was evolved to meet the specific fact that QM was not able to integrate GR into its theory (or ethos) something that was essential for greater clarity and to make the theory as a whole work. Furthermore,it is well known that the generally established views on 'force' is that it is of a 'push/pull' nature. One could say that Newtons Laws epitomise this push/pull concept. My own theory 'Gestalt Theory' also supports this push/pull concept of 'force'. IF the gravitational force is considered to be of a push/pull nature, which it was, at least by Newton, then consider that without this push/pull effect there would be no acceleration! It follows that if there is no acceleration, then there would be no General Relativity, since GR claims that there is no such thing as gravity, according to GR gravity is the equivalent of acceleration, thus gravity is motion. It follows that if there is no GR there would be no 'string theory'.

 

[Mazulu]

I have some doubts. Take string theory for example. String theory was evolved to meet the specific fact that QM was not able to integrate GR into its theory (or ethos) something that was essential for greater clarity and to make the theory as a whole work. Furthermore,it is well known that the generally established views on 'force' is that it is of a 'push/pull' nature. One could say that Newtons Laws epitomise this push/pull concept. My own theory 'Gestalt Theory' also supports this push/pull concept of 'force'. IF the gravitational force is considered to be of a push/pull nature, which it was, at least by Newton, then consider that without this push/pull effect there would be no acceleration! It follows that if there is no acceleration, then there would be no General Relativity, since GR claims that there is no such thing as gravity, according to GR gravity is the equivalent of acceleration, thus gravity is motion. It follows that if there is no GR there would be no 'string theory'.

Gestault theory? That sounds an awful lot like psychology. Is your last name Gestault?

 

[quant]

Gestalt theory? That sounds an awful lot like psychology. Is your last name Gestalt?

I have given an explanation of why it is called Gestalt Theory, in the post in alternative theories. Yes, there is a theory in psychology that has the same name. I didn't realise that when I chose the name for my theory. No, my name is not Gestalt.

 

[Gerhard Kemmerer]

No, I am sorry you are missing the point. Matter is not made up of 'virtual photons' rather matter is completley indifferent to virtual photons, because they have such low energy that they cannot be absorbed or otherwise interact with matter. Because of this quality, they can pass with impunity through any substance regardless of the thickness, density etc., without interacting with it. The only exception that occurs is when photons are emitted or absorbed by electrons. When this happens the 'virtual photons' of the aether line themselves up in the direction of propagation of the 'real' photon, forming a line whose ends rest on infinity and the energy of the real photon travels along this line of virtual photons. Perhaps this ...
This is what a photon might look like. As can be seen it consists of pulses of electrical energy that have been emitted by an electron, encapsulated in a solenoidal electrical field. What are the properties of such a photon construction:-

1) The photon has no mass

2) It will always travel at the speed of c.

3) It is electrically neutral, meaning that it won’t be affected by electromagneticfields.

4) It will preserve its energy intact.

5) It has the properties of both a transverse wave and of a particle.

6) High energy photons would have a different emission system as compared to low energy photons such as radio waves.

7) It travels in straight lines until it is absorbed.


In short such a photon construction means that all of the criteria associated with a photon are realized. But how does the photon propagate through space. To answer this we have to return to the concept of a ‘virtual photon ’ aether. Let us assume that the ‘virtual photon’ aether is in random motion when at rest. When a real photon is emitted from an electron the ‘virtual photons’ along its line of propagation line up in a line whose ends rest on infinity. The real photon then travels along this line of ‘virtual photons’, till it either loses energy and joins the ‘virtual photon’ aether or till it is absorbed by a suitable electron in its path.

I forgot to mention that the medium that I was proposing was not the aether of virtual photons, so your response is applicable.
Going by what Origin posted, such a medium is unnecessary, however I don't doubt that it can exist just the same, only I would conclude that the virtual photons are responding and subject to a medium not made of them.

 

[quant]

I forgot to mention that the medium that I was proposing was not the aether of virtual photons, so your response is applicable.
Going by what Origin posted, such a medium is unnecessary, however I don't doubt that it can exist just the same, only I would conclude that the virtual photons are responding and subject to a medium not made of them.

Hi Gerhard, As to whether a medium is necessary to transport EM radiation, the majority of theories, including Maxwell's and QED, state that a medium, fields in the former and 'virtual photons' in the latter are needed. The Standard theory also posits a different field for mass known as the Higgs field. As to the actual make-up of the medium there are numerous explanations, so your theory that the field is made up of some other, as yet unknown, substance has support. I would be interested in learning more about your ideas of what the aether might be made of.