Lucifer Wanted Freedom Too

[Leo Volont]

What is needed is a framework for the world population to understand and accept the above “good” versions of the golden rule. ......

......Ultimately morality must be based on whatever is best for human survival and happiness.

So which one is it? You offer three things: The Golden Rule; Pragmatic Materialism which could include anything; and Hedonism.

As you point out, many Religious Philosophers have decided for the Golden Rule.

But your insistance that survival trump all... can you not imagine any fate worse then Death? Are not the Martyrs rewarded for drawing a moral line which they refuse to cross, even if certain death be the other fork in the road.

And Hedonism. What value is there really in pure aesthetics. If Happiness is the Prime Good then why not just stick a perpetual junky's needle in your arm, stroke yourself constantly, shove a vibrator up your nether regions and never get out of bed.

You should have stopped with the Golden Rule.

 

[Leo Volont]

I'll take freedom from theocracy over getting stoned for blasphemy any day. According to God's "moral compass", it was apparently ok to wage a crusade against non-believers, suppress the scientific research of Galileo, torture and burn heretics, treat women like property, etc, etc...

Civilizations have a few rules. Barbarians don't have any rules, but under Barbarism life is "solitary, poor, brutish, nasty and short".

May your life be solitary, poor, brutish, nasty and very very short.

 

[Leo Volont]

since when does any of leo's post's have any point...,all they do is quote their dreams as truth, and who has angels and the virgin mary sitting on his shoulders,telling him what to do.
Now come on.

So you believe in no Divine Revelation? What has any other Prophet had but Dreams and Angels?

Whatever you may have, I have that and dreams and angels in addition. How is it that you can fault me for having more than you do?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

So now you want me to teach kindergarten.

Good is social impulse. Evil is the barbarian impulse to plunder.

Grow up. Do you want to argue or do you want to just grab onto me and drag your feet to slow me down?

So now you want me to teach kindergarten.

Good is social impulse. Evil is the barbarian impulse to plunder.

Grow up. Do you want to argue or do you want to just grab onto me and drag your feet to slow me down?

Leo, I have a concern about your response that I want to share with you.
The moment anyone would argue with you is the moment that they agree
with your foundation. In case you have not noticed, up until now you
had not stated any of it and people have been asking. Your response is
chalk full of condescending remarks and I feel that if you sustain this very
immature behavior, then people are going to disrespect your views and
yourself (and to someone who is so 'social' it would be a shame to see that
happen).


Now lets talk about your definitions.

-------------------------------------------------
Let's call this exhibit A) just for kicks. You asserted:
Evil = the barbarian impulse to plunder.

The most common definition of impulse is:
A sudden wish or urge that prompts an unpremeditated act or feeling.

The most common definition of barbarian is:
A firerce, brutal, and cruel person.

The most common definiton of plunder is:
To rob of goods by force.

Therefore, according to you:
Evil = A sudden fierce, brutal, and cruel urge to rob goods by force.

* This would mean that if you don't steal then you're not evil, if you
don't steal by force then you're not evil, and if you do steal but not
based on a sudden fierce, brutal, and cruel urge then you're not evil.
-------------------------------------------------
Lets call this exhibit B). You asserted:
Good = Social Impulse

The most common definition of social is:
To seek and enjoy the company of others.

The most common definition of impulse is (this is a repeat):
A sudden wish or urge that prompts an unpremeditated act or feeling.

Therefore according to you:
Good = A sudden urge to seek and enjoy the company of others.

* This would mean that if you seek and enjoy the company of others
but it is not based on a sudden urge then you are not good, if you seek
the company of others but do not enjoy it then you are not good,
and if you do not seek the company of others but do enjoy it then you
are not good. On a sidenote, for either of your definitions (good and evil)
there are many behaviors that are not good or evil.
-------------------------------------------------

Are these the definitions you are sticking to or would you like to change
them?

 

[Leo Volont]

Now lets talk about your definitions.

No. I will right essays and you can respond with essays. The practice of going back to define every word does not intrinsically belong to the English Speaking People who, for the most part, assume that they know their own language. Your demand for defining every word comes out of German Philosophical Practices, where I suppose that the large number of dialects and the crazy big words they use created a situation where they really did not know what anybody was saying.

But English has been standardized ever since the time of Dr. Johnson and Daniel Webster. I write in ideas. You can answer with ideas. If you can't figure out what I must have meant, then that would make you too retarded to deal with anyway.... or German.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

No. I will right essays and you can respond with essays. The practice of going back to define every word does not intrinsically belong to the English Speaking People who, for the most part, assume that they know their own language. Your demand for defining every word comes out of German Philosophical Practices, where I suppose that the large number of dialects and the crazy big words they use created a situation where they really did not know what anybody was saying.

But English has been standardized ever since the time of Dr. Johnson and Daniel Webster. I write in ideas. You can answer with ideas. If you can't figure out what I must have meant, then that would make you too retarded to deal with anyway.... or German.

*************
M*W: I love it! The English language changes with time... or I should say "updates" with the times. For example, the English word "virgin" doesn't mean what it did 2000 years ago in Hebrew or Greek. The word "fuck" doesn't mean the same thing today as it did in the 1600s-1800s England and colonial America. It's those people who want to define each and every word lack a good fund of knowledge of the English language. I lived in Germany and German was my second fluent tongue. I had to laugh because they were so offended when Americans couldn't speak their language. I was spit on three times by older Germans because I was a young American woman. I respect Germans and their language, but no other country in Europe respects the Germans. Anytime I would drive to the border of other European countries, the police would always ask if I "liked Germans." Then they would go on to say that Luxembourg people hate the Germans, the English hate the Germans, the French hate the Germans, the Dutch hate the Germans, the Austrians hate the Germans. In fact, I never found anyone who actually liked the Germans! After I had lived there five years, I became one of them. I looked like them. I talked like them. I was arrogant like them. I drove fast and dangerously like them. Then the Americans started hating me, but the Germans didn't know the difference. In retrospect, I NEVER want to go back to Germany! There is too much sadness there. They deny the Holocaust. They deny Hitler was a bad guy. They say Eva Braun was Hitler's "secretary!" Here me now, believe me later -- Germans hate America. Germany harbors terrorists. I recall my own personal experience with the Bader-Meinhoff group when I first arrived in Germany. I loved Europe, but I have no use for Germany.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

No. I will right essays and you can respond with essays. The practice of going back to define every word does not intrinsically belong to the English Speaking People who, for the most part, assume that they know their own language. Your demand for defining every word comes out of German Philosophical Practices, where I suppose that the large number of dialects and the crazy big words they use created a situation where they really did not know what anybody was saying.

But English has been standardized ever since the time of Dr. Johnson and Daniel Webster. I write in ideas. You can answer with ideas. If you can't figure out what I must have meant, then that would make you too retarded to deal with anyway.... or German.

You write in words and not in ideas. Words however may be used to
communicate ideas. You without a doubt have a handicap when it comes to
communication and logic. Whether it's a result of biology, your environment,
and / or choice remains unclear; however, the end result is that you are
unable to support the basic foundation of your assertions.

Your ideas have no value and deserve no respect. Nobody will come to your
defense.

On a closing note, I would like to complete your statement of infinite wisdom
in a different way:

"If you can't figure out what I must have meant, then I did a poor job
of communicating it"

 

[Crunchy Cat]

*************
M*W: I love it! The English language changes with time... or I should say "updates" with the times. For example, the English word "virgin" doesn't mean what it did 2000 years ago in Hebrew or Greek. The word "fuck" doesn't mean the same thing today as it did in the 1600s-1800s England and colonial America. It's those people who want to define each and every word lack a good fund of knowledge of the English language. I lived in Germany and German was my second fluent tongue. I had to laugh because they were so offended when Americans couldn't speak their language. I was spit on three times by older Germans because I was a young American woman. I respect Germans and their language, but no other country in Europe respects the Germans. Anytime I would drive to the border of other European countries, the police would always ask if I "liked Germans." Then they would go on to say that Luxembourg people hate the Germans, the English hate the Germans, the French hate the Germans, the Dutch hate the Germans, the Austrians hate the Germans. In fact, I never found anyone who actually liked the Germans! After I had lived there five years, I became one of them. I looked like them. I talked like them. I was arrogant like them. I drove fast and dangerously like them. Then the Americans started hating me, but the Germans didn't know the difference. In retrospect, I NEVER want to go back to Germany! There is too much sadness there. They deny the Holocaust. They deny Hitler was a bad guy. They say Eva Braun was Hitler's "secretary!" Here me now, believe me later -- Germans hate America. Germany harbors terrorists. I recall my own personal experience with the Bader-Meinhoff group when I first arrived in Germany. I loved Europe, but I have no use for Germany.

Not only does the meaning of Enlgish words change over time, words attain
different meanings depending on the context they are used in. Pick any
word at random in english, look it up on dictionary.com and take a look
at the many definitions of the word.

As for all these trendy Germanisms that I am hearing. It's a shame that there
is so much bias against them. I know a few German-born folk but they live
here in the U.S. and don't exhibit any of the behaviors noted.

 

[Leo Volont]

Dear Medicine Woman,

Hey, was I right about German Philosophy -- that it just seems to circle around becoming more elaborate and convoluted as it progressively insists upon deeper and deeper definitions -- refusing no solid basis for any argument. It seems that the German Mentality rejects the notion that there can be any Common Sense.

Yes, the German People are the Fountainhead of European Barbarism. The last to be tamed Civilization and the first to rebel against it. The Protestant Rebellion was their doing. The Atheistic 'Enlightenment' would also have been their doing, but the French are so much more Mentally Agile then the Germans who are satisfied simply to be drunk. Later the World would find it faddish to attempt to decode the labyrinths of German Pseudo-Philosophy. The demands for definition created the busywork that compulsives require, and the puzzling and cryptic conceptual contructions could easily be mistaken for Profundity by those inherently so shallow that they could never know the difference.

 

[mario]

This is too funny. I have to side with leo on this one. Everyone has a generalized idea of what good and bad means. Good...having the "do unto others that you would have them do unto you" (unless you're a masochist) quality. And bad...well y'know...making innocent people (and animals) feel hurt, pain and suffering for no good reason.

Funny though, a lot of god's creations seem to have bad qualities to them. Earthquakes, destructive weather patterns, flesh eating bacteria, inferior chromosomes that cause all kinds of health problems, the toronto maple leafs, etc etc. Maybe he uses a different dictionary.

 

[Leo Volont]

Funny though, a lot of god's creations seem to have bad qualities to them. Earthquakes, destructive weather patterns, flesh eating bacteria, inferior chromosomes that cause all kinds of health problems, the toronto maple leafs, etc etc. Maybe he uses a different dictionary.

The Purpose of the Messianic Dispensation was to lift the World into Paradise and Spiritualize Humanity. That is what would have happened if the Pharisees had not murdered Jesus.

But since Jesus was murdered, the Sufferings and the Curses upon Mankind were allowed to intensify and multiply.

Notice that as Protestantism spreads -- the Doctrine that it is a Good Thing that Christ was Murdered -- the Bad Things you mention intensify. Aids began in the same year as the Moral Majority. God is showing us His Wrath. If we persist in gloating in the Murder of Christ, the Punishments will continue.

We can end this Sad Dispensation of Suffering by Universally Apologizing to God for Murdering His Messiah and by begging for a Second Chance. And Everyone needs to realize that Paul ******** the Well of the Bible. When we toss out the Bible as Damaged Goods, God will give us a New Bible.

 

[Jenyar]

Interesting interpretation. What about stoning adulterers?

That wasn't interpretation, it was an application of form criticism. I won't make any excuses for the stoning of adulterers. Nomadic societies didn't have correctional facilities and jails, but the did have laws to protect their society just as we do. These laws - and their punishments - remained in force even when they eventually settled down (settling down was no "excuse" for crime or leniency). Stoning was their electrical chair, their gallows and their noose. They wouldn't hang a person from a tree, because that meant he was not just guilty, but also cursed.

 

[stretched]

Yo Leo,

"Yes, the German People are the Fountainhead of European Barbarism. The last to be tamed Civilization and the first to rebel against it. The Protestant Rebellion was their doing. The Atheistic 'Enlightenment' would also have been their doing, but the French are so much more Mentally Agile then the Germans who are satisfied simply to be drunk."

Let me just say, myself being German, I find your statement bigoted and offensive. (I can expand on this, but it is ultimately pointless) Having said that, if you had any idea of the concepts of good and evil, you would not have made that statement Your statement displays the very barbarity which you so righteously condemn. You display a wonderful intellect, but in my humble opinion only, you seem to shoulder a great deal of anger and resentment. Maybe your priest can help you with that, or if your angels or god are around, you may find some form of serenity via wisdom and humility if you seek that which is the truth. One can hide behind a user name (the many you have used on these forums) but you cannot hide the hardness in your heart. (My Essay)

Allcare.

 

[spidergoat]

Barbarians don't have any rules, but under Barbarism life is "solitary, poor, brutish, nasty and short".

Arrogant people usually refer to any cultures they don't understand as "barbarians". It is a misconception that there are cultures that exist without rules. Culture and societies of all kinds depend on rules for their very existence. For instance, look at American gangs, like the crips and bloods, they are violent, but there exists a complicated set of rules that govern their behavior towards each other. Horrendous atrocities have been commited in the name of rightousness, and the rule of law. In a sense, barbarism is a much more moral way of life, since they are theoretically concerned only with their own personal pleasures.