DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
So it's simply accepted then. OK.It is grammatically understood, and grammatically accepted by those who have no reason to deny God, with no reason.
Jan.
So it's simply accepted then. OK.It is grammatically understood, and grammatically accepted by those who have no reason to deny God, with no reason.
Jan.
Cancer 'is purely man-made' say scientists after finding almost no trace of disease in
We are essentially. Godlike.
God wants us to remember that.
Jan.
But the problem is that people want to believe what suits them regardless of the evidence.
Even dinosaurs got cancer. We do have more carcinogens in our modern environment, but it's not like it didn't exist in the past.
Everything we know about physics, chemistry, biology, neuroscience, quantum mechanics, particle physics, astrophysics and physical cosmology makes the existence of God seem very very unlikely.
But the problem is that people want to believe what suits them regardless of the evidence.
So you're memory belongs to you?What parts are not essential?
Then why as I get older my memory is being taken away?
Humpty and Poe a essential team
So you're memory belongs to you?
Now we only need to know who "you" are.
Jan.
As you know, the likelihood of an invisible, fire-breathing dragon in Carl Sagan's garage gets lower the more we explore the area and study it.How do you arrive at that conclusion?
Weird reply
I don't see anybody else around claiming it
Have you got some weird idea I am someone else?
And why is it we need to know who I am all of a sudden?
Either way don't bother answering
As you know, the likelihood of an invisible, fire-breathing dragon in Carl Sagan's garage gets lower the more we explore the area and study it.
As each possible hidey-place that the dragon could be gets eliminated (by better and better tools), the assertion that there is a dragon there at all, the story about how it's hiding has to keep getting pushed back. It becomes a back-peddling goalpost-moving scenario.
So it is with God. We continue to explore our universe, and find that it goes along tickety-boo without coming up against something that can only be explained by God. It becomes increasingly apparent that there are fewer and fewer places he has influence.
It's not that it says he's not there, simply that, so far, the universe seems to be revealing its secrets without
But you are
Then why as I get older my memory is being taken away?
That means you memory belongs to you
Notice you don't claim you belong to you. That is because you would be talking nonsense
I think you have.
To help you come to your senses.
Too late.
You know perfectly well about the argument of Sagan's dragon and its comparison to the existence of God.Hmm... What does this have to do with anything?
Just did.I'll try to remember that when someone starts a 'Does a dragon live in Carl Sagan's garage' thread.
This is a non sequitur. I simply pointed out that we are finding more and more about our world, and that it appears to work very well with perfectly mundane mechanisms, without resorting to a supernatural one.That's nothing like it is with God. That is an atheist comprehension of God. God is whatever you want God to be.
This is an ad hominem in the sense that it entirely neglects the topic at-hand, and instead attempts to attack the views of the person making the argument.You couldn't resort to God, because you are without Him, by definition.
You know perfectly well about the argument of Sagan's dragon and its comparison to the existence of God.
Since your best response is to feign ignorance, that speaks to the likelihood that you have no better counter.
Just did.
A non-response. Whether you agree with it or not, you know perfectly well its use as a correlation with this topic
This is a non sequitur. I simply pointed out that we are finding more and more about our world, and that it appears to work very well with perfectly mundane mechanisms, without resorting to a supernatural one.
This is an ad hominem in the sense that it entirely neglects the topic at-hand, and instead attempts to attack the views of the person making the argument.
Do you have anything to counter the stance that our world is being effectively explained without yet needing to resort to God to explain it?
Agree. It isn't about God; it's about those who espouse God. As Sagan's invisible dragon is not about invisible dragons. It is about people who espouse things that cannot be shown to exist outside their own heads.Yes, and I'm asking how it relates to God.
Just because it is used all the time, doesn't mean it is beyond scrutiny. So how does it relate to God, because from my perspective, it doesn't.
As much as they know about Sagan's invisible dragon. Which need be nothing, to start.I don't know what it is they think they know about God, to use that as a defence.
Agree. It isn't about God; it's about those who espouse God. As Sagan's invisible dragon is not about invisible dragons. It is about people who espouse things that cannot be shown to exist outside their own heads
Sagan's dragon lays bare the diversionary tactic of shifting the goalposts whenever there is any attempt to rationally objectively analyze something (whether faith in invisible dragons or faith in God).
Look at this:
Sagan: "There's an invisible dragon in my garage."
Rationalist: "I see nothing. I am skeptical it exists. Show me."
Sagan: "It's there, you just can't detect it."
Rationalist: "Then tell me what test I can do to detect it."
Sagan: "You know nothing about invisible dragons. You can't even talk about them unless you can define them."
Rationalist: "It's your dragon; your assertion. I don't claim to know anything about it. Why don't you tell me how I can identify it?"
Sagan: "No that's your problem, because you don't believe in dragons. You'll just have to live with my advanced evolution."
As much as they know about Sagan's invisible dragon. Which need be nothing, to start.
See how preposterous that whole exchange sounds?
As explained, it relates God believers to dragon believers. They use the same diversionary tactics.Unless you are equating God with invisible dragons, how does it relate to theism, or God.
That would be argument by popularity. A whole section of people believe in Sasquatch too. It's not a vote.If a whole section of people could see that invisible dragon, and some couldn't then you'd be on to something. Because that is the reality.
There are a lot of people from whom compassion and unconditional love come from their own heart and character, rather than from some other entity. You don't want to go down that road.You could however perform the experiment with compassion. There are those for whom compassion (unconditional love) is a natural attribute. But for others it isn't.
And I can see how faith in God would make sense to you.I can see how this would make sense to you.
I have faith in God therefore God exists. That's what it means to be with God." I can't see God, therefore God does not exist. That's what it means to be without God.
Exactly. If you wish to assert the existence of God, the onus in on you to put your stance on the table."Nothing" being the star of that little show.
Finally!Yes you do sound preposterous.
As explained, it relates God believers to dragon believers. They use
That would be argument by popularity. A whole section of people believe in Sasquatch too. It's not a vote.
There are a lot of people from whom compassion and unconditional love come from their own heart and character, rather than from some other entity. You don't want to go down that road.
And I can see how faith in God would make sense to you.
I have faith in God therefore God exists. That's what it means to be with God.
Note, that there is nothing objective in there. It is self-referencing.
Exactly. If you wish to assert the existence of God, the onus in on you to put your stance on the table.
You can't hide behind 'you don't know'.
Let's put me in that seat:
Me: I assert the existence of "crystaline entities".
You: And what is it about them you are asserting?
Me: None of your business. You don't get them so you can't argue them.
You: Why don't you tell us. Surely there is logic here.
Me: No. You know nothing. You'll just have to take my word for it.
I don't require faith to believe in God. What makes you think I do?
Which is an act of faith. If it weren't, you'd be able to present evidence to the rest of us who are not privy to what drives your beliefs.God is