Love thy Enemy

[baumgarten]

Your god is not goodness, he is cruel and immoral. I do not serve your god, I reject him with every fiber of my being. I only serve mankind.

Do I still go to hell?

I guess it depends how much you hate Little Birdie's god. I can only hope that you don't allow some imaginary being to consume your life to the extent that your behavior here on SF suggests. If you do, then perhaps you are already in hell.

 

[(Q)]

I guess it depends how much you hate Little Birdie's god. I can only hope that you don't allow some imaginary being to consume your life to the extent that your behavior here on SF suggests. If you do, then perhaps you are already in hell.

What about my behaviour? Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?

 

[Little_Birdie]

Why do you "believe"? Really?

because i choose to

Why do you accept "god" based on a degree of evidence that even on your stupidest day, wouldn't convince you to give even one dollar to the slick salesman at your door?

its not the evidence but the overwhelming power of love you feel when you open yourself up

What do you fear so much that you need a "god" to protect you?

its not a fear, it is more like a relationship you have with a close freind or family member. could you ever see yourself apart form them

What do you really know about how rationalists and scientists actually view the world?

its your mind i can't know it, i only know that i am in the presence of a loving force who knows all my flaws but loves me in spite of them

Why are you afraid to admit that "god" might not exist??

i'm not afaid to admit it but to me God's existance is fact because of the power of love i feel in my heart

Why do you hide from the overwhelming harm that religion does to societies and individuals?

religion does not cause harm, people with an agenda using religion cause harm, but any persasive person with a convising ideal, has used the mask of the ideal to lead people astray, from that very ideal

 

[Little_Birdie]

A theory and a belief are two different things usp8riot.

A theory is just a possibility - it is NOT presented as a known fact.

A belief IS presented as a known fact, without being supported by reasons or evidence.

Its interesting to me that Socrates claimed to be ignorant of so many things, and yet was considered to be one of the wisest men in Athens. His wisdom and integrity was in understanding WHY the men of his time were ignorant - he UNDERSTOOD this ignornance and was honest enough to admit it.

actually i belive that socrates was actully trying to prove he was the wisest man in athens by pretending he didn't know the whole point of the socratic method is you lead the other participant to your conclusion by a series of questions i think

 

[baumgarten]

What about my behaviour? Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?

A good example of your behavior would be your going into a thread whose topic has to do with getting female attention, finding a single reply that takes a religious overtone, and attacking it. Other posters in that thread rightly ignored your reply, which was asinine and off-topic, but the purpose of the example here is to show that you seem to jump at every opportunity you can get to attack religion.

You strike me as bitter about religion because of the fierceness with which you attack it. You are fervently opposed to it, as though you feel it wrongs you by its very existence. You appear even to hate religion; it seems as though you make it your purpose on this board to undermine any mention of it. Even if you are actually a troll who gets a kick out of doing such things, one asks himself why you get such a kick specifically from bashing religion and reaches a similar conclusion.

People who experience strong feelings of anger or hatred on a daily basis for long enough become depressed. If you are depressed enough, then you are in hell - you effectively want to become more depressed, bitter, and hateful.

Do you think this description fits you? Answer yourself (and ask M*W while you're at it); I'm not really interested in your answer to me.

 

[(Q)]

A good example of your behavior would be your going into a thread whose topic has to do with getting female attention, finding a single reply that takes a religious overtone, and attacking it. Other posters in that thread rightly ignored your reply, which was asinine and off-topic, but the purpose of the example here is to show that you seem to jump at every opportunity you can get to attack religion.

You strike me as bitter about religion because of the fierceness with which you attack it. You are fervently opposed to it, as though you feel it wrongs you by its very existence. You appear even to hate religion; it seems as though you make it your purpose on this board to undermine any mention of it. Even if you are actually a troll who gets a kick out of doing such things, one asks himself why you get such a kick specifically from bashing religion and reaches a similar conclusion.

People who experience strong feelings of anger or hatred on a daily basis for long enough become depressed. If you are depressed enough, then you are in hell - you effectively want to become more depressed, bitter, and hateful.

Do you think this description fits you? Answer yourself (and ask M*W while you're at it); I'm not really interested in your answer to me.

No, but then, you admit you're not really interested in my answer, so I see no reason to offer one.

Perhaps, you're just a pissed-off theist pretending to be an atheist, who knows, who cares? I find it ultimately hilarious tho, that you go round agreeing with atheism, yet arguing me in the same breath.

As far as off-topic asinine posts are concerned, you could also be accused of the same thing.

I've made it no secret that I would like to rid the world of religion, educate the masses and use our resources for the betterment of mankind. So what?

 

[baumgarten]

I've made it no secret that I would like to rid the world of religion, educate the masses and use our resources for the betterment of mankind. So what?

So nothing. I'm just letting you know what I think. Ultimately we're just people, right? We're both wrong about something.

I'm pretty sure I'm not a theist, but I disagree with most atheists on this message board who believe, like the religions they oppose, that theirs is the only truth. It's a totally unnecessary and irrational belief for an atheist to have, and the only thing it does is cause conflict on the same level as that between Jews, Christians, and Muslims - and we can see where that leads.

The theists here don't generally take a belligerent tone, but many of the atheists do. That bothers me, as I'd really like to have an intelligent discussion about atheism, with an atheist, without the discussion being interrupted by cries of "bullshit," "moron," and "fucking idiot." Then, if I try to discuss religion with a theist (ostensibly the purpose of this board), I get the same problem. I enjoy philsophical debate, but not that fucking moronic idiot bullshit.

 

[(Q)]

I'm pretty sure I'm not a theist, but I disagree with most atheists on this message board who believe, like the religions they oppose, that theirs is the only truth.

It's quite clear you oppose my "truth" of educating the masses and using our resources for the betterment of mankind, in fact, you appear to vehemently disagree.

It's a totally unnecessary and irrational belief for an atheist to have, and the only thing it does is cause conflict on the same level as that between Jews, Christians, and Muslims - and we can see where that leads.

Of course it causes conflict, it ultimately reduces the entire concept of religion to myths, and for the religious, that means their whole way of thinking and in many cases, their whole way of life.

The theists here don't generally take a belligerent tone, but many of the atheists do.

You just haven't been around long enough to hear those theists.

That bothers me, as I'd really like to have an intelligent discussion about atheism, with an atheist, without the discussion being interrupted by cries of "bullshit," "moron," and "fucking idiot." Then, if I try to discuss religion with a theist (ostensibly the purpose of this board), I get the same problem. I enjoy philsophical debate, but not that fucking moronic idiot bullshit.

Well, it appears that you prefer to target many of my posts, yet, I'm trying to understand where exactly you saw me cry bullshit, moron or fucking idiot to theists?

 

[baumgarten]

It's quite clear you oppose my "truth" of educating the masses and using our resources for the betterment of mankind, in fact, you appear to vehemently disagree.

I'm all for it. It's the "eradication of religion" part that I consider a very bad idea. If I seem vehemently opposed to it, it's because it doesn't make sense to me, and instead of worrying about it I should probably turn to :m: .

Of course it causes conflict, it ultimately reduces the entire concept of religion to myths, and for the religious, that means their whole way of thinking and in many cases, their whole way of life.

Exactly. No one is going to respond positively to a threat to their whole way of life.

You just haven't been around long enough to hear those theists.

I hope they don't come around.

Well, it appears that you prefer to target many of my posts, yet, I'm trying to understand where exactly you saw me cry bullshit, moron or fucking idiot to theists?

Nowhere, of course. It was a general statement about this forum. Your posts are particularly fun and easy to reply to (they don't contain the aforementioned bullshit, moron, and fucking idiot), so why not target them?

Perhaps I take special exception to belligerent atheists because atheism represents to me a certain level of openmindedness that seems to be contradicted in such belligerence. It is surely as much a product of my own personal biases as your stance is yours.

 

[Godless]

Well, it appears that you prefer to target many of my posts, yet, I'm trying to understand where exactly you saw me cry bullshit, moron or fucking idiot to theists?

Raises arm!! Quity as charged.

 

[Little_Birdie]

Raises arm!! Quity as charged.

is that something to be proud of

 

[Confutatis]

The theists here don't generally take a belligerent tone, but many of the atheists do. That bothers me, as I'd really like to have an intelligent discussion about atheism, with an atheist, without the discussion being interrupted by cries of "bullshit," "moron," and "fucking idiot."

I have never been able to have an intelligent discussion about atheism with any atheist. Most intelligent atheists seem to think the issue of theism is as irrelevant as belief in the zodiac: silly but ultimately harmless.

It's mostly stupid atheists who see atheism as a cause for the betterment of mankind. And those seem just as likely to burn people alive in the name of a better world.

 

[Godless]

is that something to be proud of

All in good intention, and yea! I'm proud. Proud cause I dont take this shit too seriously, i'm here merely for amusement. I've learned quite a bit in the years that I've been here, and the truth is I've seen every refutation you little brains can come up with.

It's mostly stupid atheists who see atheism as a cause for the betterment of mankind.

It's actually idiotic theist, who after countless wars, withc burnings, crusades, inquisitions, heretic hanging, killing unbelievers, killing those who believe different, have got the world where it is today. So what is the matter? thousands of years has PROVEN that you can't get your shit together. Atheism is the ideal choice for a world that it's coming apart with it's thoudsands of zealots about to blow the fucking world up!!

Godless

 

[Confutatis]

It's actually idiotic theist, who after countless wars, withc burnings, crusades, inquisitions, heretic hanging, killing unbelievers, killing those who believe different, have got the world where it is today.

Well, well, here we go again...

So Mr. Godless knows the cause of all the problems of our world, and he found it to be religion. Of course Mr. Godless cannot explain, for instance, the death of millions of Soviet dissidents by the atheist Stalin. But Mr. Godless doesn't seem to like to think; he prefers easy, ready-made answers to difficult questions. Just like the people he accuses of doing precisely the same thing.

 

[(Q)]

I'm all for it. It's the "eradication of religion" part that I consider a very bad idea. If I seem vehemently opposed to it, it's because it doesn't make sense to me

Eradication may seem to harsh a word, but it's merely the result of people no longer believing their versions of gods are reality, and that the reality which they reside is a mere stepping stone to their equally valid versions of an afterlife.

What's not to make sense?

Exactly. No one is going to respond positively to a threat to their whole way of life.

As I'm sure the Korowai tribe of southeastern Papua did when they were educated about cannibalism.

Nowhere, of course. It was a general statement about this forum. Your posts are particularly fun and easy to reply to (they don't contain the aforementioned bullshit, moron, and fucking idiot), so why not target them?

Agreed.

Perhaps I take special exception to belligerent atheists because atheism represents to me a certain level of openmindedness that seems to be contradicted in such belligerence. It is surely as much a product of my own personal biases as your stance is yours.

Then, welcome aboard!

And if you agree, I'll be happy to present this thread to you some time in the future, that is, if some unimaginable set of events take place thus giving way to a similar belligerence in your stance.

 

[SkinWalker]

Well, well, here we go again...

So Mr. Godless knows the cause of all the problems of our world, and he found it to be religion. Of course Mr. Godless cannot explain, for instance, the death of millions of Soviet dissidents by the atheist Stalin. But Mr. Godless doesn't seem to like to think; he prefers easy, ready-made answers to difficult questions. Just like the people he accuses of doing precisely the same thing.

The answer to the Stalin question is obvious: abuse of power. Something that religion has excelled at over the millenia and not surprising that secular rulers should figure out. After all, Stalin had many good examples from which to draw on for his ruthlessness: all of them religious in origin.

 

[Cyperium]

Jesus teaches us (or atleast Christians) to Love your enemies...

An interesting question an athiest asked me a while ago:

If so, mustn't you also love Satan?

Love comes from God, we love God because God first loved us.

A question that is more to the point is "how do we know that we are loved", since if we would love satan, how would we know that we are loved back by him?? If Satan said he loved you, how would you know he wasn't deceiving you? How would you know he wasn't lying?

And how would you know he wouldn't turn his back on you the moment you confess your love for him and are bound?

Love must be shared, we share the love with God, if we love the ones that need help and that we are engaged with, then we love God. Cause when we help those that need help then we help Jesus, and when we feed those hungry then we feed Jesus when He was hungry, when we release those innocently captured then we release Jesus when He was innocently captured, and when we visit a prisoner in jail, we visit Jesus when He was in jail. You see? Jesus is each one of them. He has died for us, a light has rosen in our hearts and we are never alone in our suffering (He suffers too).

 

[SkinWalker]

Love comes from DNA. Its a trick that makes us procreate, protect our young, and develop political relationships for personal gain and for the better of the population as a whole.

And all that preachy bullshit is against forum rules.

 

[spidergoat]

Just like it's possible to fall in love with someone in prison without ever seeing them, it's possible to love God without any indication of His reality. The love itself may be valuable in a social sense, since it retards aggression, and it may even contribute to a feeling of well-being. These benefits would seem enough to explain the existence of theistic religion, but they don't prove God's existence.

 

[superluminal]

Birdy:

because i choose to

Fair enough.

its not the evidence but the overwhelming power of love you feel when you open yourself up

No evidence required? Ok. That makes it a speculative fantasy at best. Claiming anything else is a lie.

its not a fear, it is more like a relationship you have with a close freind or family member. could you ever see yourself apart form them

No, it's not. My friends and family exist. Your relationship is, so far as you have shown, completely in your mind.

its your mind i can't know it, i only know that i am in the presence of a loving force who knows all my flaws but loves me in spite of them

You KNOW this for sure? Given the responses above? This is called willful self deception. It makes you the worst kind of liar. We all unconsciously decieve ourselves about all sorts of things, but you have repeated the lie to yourself, consciously, enough that you think it's real.

i'm not afaid to admit it but to me God's existance is fact because of the power of love i feel in my heart

A FACT??? An objective reality? You are lying to us and yourself again. Your heart is a muscular pump. What you feel is an abberation of the mind until proven otherwise.

religion does not cause harm, people with an agenda using religion cause harm, but any persasive person with a convising ideal, has used the mask of the ideal to lead people astray, from that very ideal

So what is the ideal of religion? That all are free to believe as they wish? Free to practice any behavior that does no harm to others? Free to question all of existence? Full of a sense of responsibility for ones own actions? Acceptance of all viewpoints? Wait... That's the opposite of the religious ideal.

You will believe as I say or you will burn.

You will be constrained to arbitrary behaviors that suit me.

You will NOT question my teachings.

I am ultimately responsible for your failures and successes.

People with different "viewpoints" are to be converted, pitied, or killed as a last resort.

This is just a smattering of you "ideal" religious experience.

...religion does not cause harm, people with an agenda using religion cause harm...

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, right? Guns can be used to protect and to attack, just like religion. Either way you slice it though, it's living under the rule of the gun. Fuck that. The very principles of religion are an insidious set of traps for the dull-witted.