Lord, Lunatic or Liar?
- Thread starter pashley
- Start date
patriotSTORM
Registered Senior Member
THere is a VERY interesting book out there by Michael Chrichton called "The Miracle Strain". It is very much fiction, but raises some important What Ifs?
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"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who' if we wins' knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid sould who know neither victory nor defeat."
-"The Man in the Arena"
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"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who' if we wins' knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid sould who know neither victory nor defeat."
-"The Man in the Arena"
patriotSTORM,
I think you meant Michael Cordy. Are you referring to the story about a geneticist who invents a machine that can decode the human blueprint, and he discovers the "genes of God"?
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www.indigenousrocks.com
I think you meant Michael Cordy. Are you referring to the story about a geneticist who invents a machine that can decode the human blueprint, and he discovers the "genes of God"?
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www.indigenousrocks.com
Pashley,
I think he may have been planted in the womb of some poor young girl named Mary, who just so happened to have the "right" genetic makeup, by one of the "gods" (aliens? custodians of the earth? aerial hosts?) who used to fly around in their space vehicles much more openly than they do now. Jesus himself was reported to have claimed that he was not of this world, as opposed to his followers, who were of this world. I'm not sure what the purpose was, unless they saw that their labor pool was losing interest in serving them, and they felt they had to bring back the focus.
I think Jesus was basically a good person, and there seems to be some evidence (in the books that were left out of the Bible) that he did not want the role of Messiah. I think this may be why his "father" had forsaken him at the end - he wasn't as useful to him in spreading the dogma as had been hoped, and it could be that his father found him more useful dead than alive. Otherwise, he might have lived longer than 3 years once he began his ministry. Very mysterious, and very sad, too.
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www.indigenousrocks.com
I think he may have been planted in the womb of some poor young girl named Mary, who just so happened to have the "right" genetic makeup, by one of the "gods" (aliens? custodians of the earth? aerial hosts?) who used to fly around in their space vehicles much more openly than they do now. Jesus himself was reported to have claimed that he was not of this world, as opposed to his followers, who were of this world. I'm not sure what the purpose was, unless they saw that their labor pool was losing interest in serving them, and they felt they had to bring back the focus.
I think Jesus was basically a good person, and there seems to be some evidence (in the books that were left out of the Bible) that he did not want the role of Messiah. I think this may be why his "father" had forsaken him at the end - he wasn't as useful to him in spreading the dogma as had been hoped, and it could be that his father found him more useful dead than alive. Otherwise, he might have lived longer than 3 years once he began his ministry. Very mysterious, and very sad, too.
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www.indigenousrocks.com
Pat,
Is that the best you can offer in the way of a rebuttal? Why am I not surprised?
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www.indigenousrocks.com
Is that the best you can offer in the way of a rebuttal? Why am I not surprised?
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www.indigenousrocks.com
Pat,
I'm not sure about Jesus - he does seem to have been of much more sterling character than his father, Jehovah. However, one must ask oneself how far the apple falls from the tree?
As for Jehovah, I vote for all 3 - lord, lunatic and liar. [He was "lord" only in the sense that he was the ruler of a people, albeit from the air (is it just coincidence that the character, "Satan", was referred to as the prince of the power of the air?).]
More later...
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www.indigenousrocks.com
I'm not sure about Jesus - he does seem to have been of much more sterling character than his father, Jehovah. However, one must ask oneself how far the apple falls from the tree?
As for Jehovah, I vote for all 3 - lord, lunatic and liar. [He was "lord" only in the sense that he was the ruler of a people, albeit from the air (is it just coincidence that the character, "Satan", was referred to as the prince of the power of the air?).]
More later...
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www.indigenousrocks.com
Pat,
I'd like to turn your attention for a moment to Ephesians 2:1-3, which says,
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Just who was this prince of the power of the air? Who else hung out up there, ruling from above, working in the children of disobedience? Could it be our old friend, Jehovah? Let's take a little trip back in time, shall we? Exodus 6:2-4 gives us an introduction to Moses' friend in the sky, Jehovah:
2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.
4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
That this Jehovah intended to reign supreme was made clear in Exodus 20:1-6:
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
But was he the prince of the power of the air? Well, all through Exodus it talks about the Lord hanging around in a cloud, or cloudy pillar, above the Hebrews. I don't want to make this too long by quoting every passage that says so, but I will quote a few of them later on, if anyone so desires. (For the time being, anyone with a bible may read about this "cloud" in the following chapters in Exodus: 13, 14, 24 and 33; also please read Genesis 19:16-19).
Turn now to the book of Joshua, which tells the tale of a genocidal rampage led by Jehovah against the inhabitants of Canaan, allegedly because they were disobedient. According to Joshua 11:19, "There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all other they took in battle." One might wonder why, when faced with a huge army led by a powerful "God" in the sky, more cities did not surrender, but chose instead to fight and be butchered? Let's take a look at the next verse, shall we? "For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses."
I might also mention here that it was this same "Lord" who hardened the heart of Pharoah so that he would refuse to free the Hebrew slaves - for the sole purpose of showing off his great powers.
Wow! So it was Jehovah (who was pretty much established as the prince of the power of the air back in Exodus), who was working in the children of disobedience! And this guy was the father of Jesus? Hmmm....
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www.indigenousrocks.com
I'd like to turn your attention for a moment to Ephesians 2:1-3, which says,
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Just who was this prince of the power of the air? Who else hung out up there, ruling from above, working in the children of disobedience? Could it be our old friend, Jehovah? Let's take a little trip back in time, shall we? Exodus 6:2-4 gives us an introduction to Moses' friend in the sky, Jehovah:
2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.
4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
That this Jehovah intended to reign supreme was made clear in Exodus 20:1-6:
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
But was he the prince of the power of the air? Well, all through Exodus it talks about the Lord hanging around in a cloud, or cloudy pillar, above the Hebrews. I don't want to make this too long by quoting every passage that says so, but I will quote a few of them later on, if anyone so desires. (For the time being, anyone with a bible may read about this "cloud" in the following chapters in Exodus: 13, 14, 24 and 33; also please read Genesis 19:16-19).
Turn now to the book of Joshua, which tells the tale of a genocidal rampage led by Jehovah against the inhabitants of Canaan, allegedly because they were disobedient. According to Joshua 11:19, "There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all other they took in battle." One might wonder why, when faced with a huge army led by a powerful "God" in the sky, more cities did not surrender, but chose instead to fight and be butchered? Let's take a look at the next verse, shall we? "For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses."
I might also mention here that it was this same "Lord" who hardened the heart of Pharoah so that he would refuse to free the Hebrew slaves - for the sole purpose of showing off his great powers.
Wow! So it was Jehovah (who was pretty much established as the prince of the power of the air back in Exodus), who was working in the children of disobedience! And this guy was the father of Jesus? Hmmm....
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www.indigenousrocks.com
I see - so that was really only intended as an attack on my character rather than a defense of your Master? How very....Christian.
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www.indigenousrocks.com
Well, I was about go thru the citations you listed when I came to the above paragraphs, and deceided not to. Addressing this was more important.
First of all, God didn't "harden the heart of Pharoah", he did that all by himself. You don't understand that when God gave us complete freedom, that included the ability to love OR hate. It's up to us. If he limited us in any way, we would not be free, now would we? If he hardened Pharoah's heart, that would necessarily imply a loss of freedom, and we could not love God freely of our own choice, which is the only way to REALLY love, now, isn't it? It's like holding someone hostage, and promising food "if you promise to love me". That's not love, that's coercion.
I can see your ideas on the nature of God are.....well, shall we say, inaccurate?
Pat,
Oh really? I see that you have taken it upon yourself to contradict what Jehovah himself promised Moses he would do (please join me in reading Exodus 14:4):
<font color = "red">"And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord."</font>
Then in Exodus 14:8, it states that he succeeded in this endeavor:
<font color = "red">"And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand."</font>
Apparently you have judged Jehovah to be either a liar or a manipulative tyrant! Not that I object, but you're the one who supposedly serves him - and personally, I don't think he'll appreciate your assessment of his character. RUN PAT, RUN!
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www.indigenousrocks.com
Pat,
It is quite apparent that you cannot tolerate opinions that vary greatly from your own. And when you find yourself incapable of presenting a logical argument to counter statements with which you are in disagreement, you resort to libel. As I said before...typical.
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www.indigenousrocks.com
Originally posted by Searcher:
Pat,
Oh really? I see that you have taken it upon yourself to contradict what Jehovah himself promised Moses he would do (please join me in reading Exodus 14:4):
<font color = "red">"And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord."</font>
Then in Exodus 14:8, it states that he succeeded in this endeavor:
<font color = "red">"And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand."</font>
Apparently you have judged Jehovah to be either a liar or a manipulative tyrant! Not that I object, but you're the one who supposedly serves him - and personally, I don't think he'll appreciate your assessment of his character. RUN PAT, RUN!
Sorry, but you fell into my trap.
You have misconstrued, as many do, that verse. God did not harden his heart, as I had said; he provided the circumstances for Pharoah, but that is all.
I hope I don't have to explain that
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"Know Jesus, know peace; no Jesus, no peace."
-Patrick Ashley
And here's a few gems from our new friend and fellow fruitcake, Infinity:
Welcome aboard, Infinity. Do you have anything useful to add to the conversation?
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www.indigenousrocks.com
Welcome aboard, Infinity. Do you have anything useful to add to the conversation?
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www.indigenousrocks.com