Lord- Atheist –Service

[dattaswami]

Lord- Atheist –Service

Building is there. Implies Builder should be there. Creation is there. Creator should be there. I can see the building, which is in front of my eyes, but builder need not stand in front of the building. He will be in his own job. If you want to meet the builder, you should definitely put effort to locate the builder and see him. Likewise Creation is there in front of our eyes. But have we put anytime effort to locate and identify the creator? Instead of that, with least effort we can propagate to others also that God is not there. They are not only blinded, they are making others also blinded.

Some people who are theists may become prey for the propagation of this ignorance also unfortunately. The greatest sin on the earth is to be unfaithful.

To identify the builder you should know the identification marks, where he lives, what he does etc.. and we have to enquire if we don't know. i.e., knowledge is required to identify any person. This knowledge is called divine knowledge if the aim is to identify the Lord, which actually only is to be propagated.

Lord created this universe for the enjoyment without any selfish motive and we human beings are enjoying the creation. Like through nice parents, wife, children, beautiful nature consisting of pleasant looking mountains, rivers, sea, nature, changing weather etc.

If we cannot please the Lord, the human life is incomplete. We serve our family members by spending our hard earned money and also physically. Are we not serving family as Servant, and these family members are nearly equal to us. Where as, Lord is omnipotent and requires no help from us, many times satisfied our desires, saved us from mishaps etc. and if we cannot bow our head in front of Him, it is very ridiculous. It is very great honour to serve Him, this is the path followed by His real devotees. These real devotees could overcome ego and always wants to serve Him as servant.

Jesus preached the gospel and His followers participated in His mission as servants for further propagation of divine knowledge. These great devotees never hesitated to serve Lord Jesus and their names have also been known even today.

 

[spidergoat]

There is a universe but no creator. Creation implies creator, and that's what (religious) people like to call it, but the choice of words shows a built in bias.

Did the lord also create bloodsucking parasites for our enjoyment?

I agree that people should overcome ego, but the concept of Lord is another kind of ego that also needs to be overcome. It's an illusion.

 

[cato]

after resisting the urge to shoot myself in the face after reading dattaswami's post, I have decided to reply.

dattaswami, that argument is so flawed that it is unbelievable that it did not stop being used before 1900.

here goes:

Creation is there. Creator should be there.

exactly! however, the creator is not defined by this statement. ergo, evolution could easily be the creator.

Some people who are theists may become prey for the propagation of this ignorance also unfortunately.

you speak of ignorance from within in invalid argument. that makes me both want to laugh, and shoot myself in the face with rock-salt.

To identify the builder you should know the identification marks, where he lives, what he does etc..

yeah... we did that, and evolution was the result. religious text give no evidence (or identifying marks), but evolution does

Lord created this universe for the enjoyment without any selfish motive and we human beings are enjoying the creation..

you assume to know the most intimate thoughts of god when it suits your argument, but if I were to ask you why bad thing happen, you would likely say that "god works in mysterious ways"

If we cannot please the Lord, the human life is incomplete.

maybe your sad little life is not. however, I am quite complete without having to live for someone/something else

the rest is just preaching (not that the first part was not), I wont reply to it.
read this and maybe you wont sound like such a dumbass (no offense):
http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/papers/atheism.pdf

 

[Provita]

Evolution does not disprove creation (not the creation story in the bible, but creation as in a god/goddess or gods/ goddesses creating the universe.

Evolution does, however, disprove the creation story (or account, call it what you will)

The one problem with your argument dattaswami isthat if: a building is there... there must be a builder... creation is there, so there must be a creator... God is there... so there must be a creator of God??? What the? Well then.. that god is there, so there must be a creator... and that god is there, therefore ANOTHER creator... into infinite plus 2 ...

To find the creator... we must find out where he lives.... !?!??! ... last time i checked, gods dont LIVE... they just... are... unless you mean heaven, but ofcoarse he is lso everywhere... so u technically find God everywhere... yet u dont find... all of him... since he is infinite afterall...

Does the Lord create bloodsucking parasites for our enjoyment? Well, we kinda did use leeches for medicine at one point in time... and they are pretty cool ... plus who says everything on earth was created for our enjoyment?? if that was so... 1) why is it so bad (comparatively to "perfect" [which u cannot compare to becuase none of us have seen or experienced a perfectness to compare it to]) ... and 2) then Earth would be heaven, Hell would be useless, and being noble and worshipping God would mean crap cause we are already i heaven... so... yeah

[Edit] Aww, he was banned... now he cant see all our posts of how wrong he is and how he is some newby spammer... *gets saddened for a second* AH WELL!

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Dattaswami greeting MLBWY, you intrest me, like your thoughts, would like to here from you some more, I have many ruminations that parallel your thoughts.

 

[c7ityi_]

There is a universe but no creator.

how illogical, a universe without a cause/explanation.

Did the lord also create bloodsucking parasites for our enjoyment?

the world is not just created for humans. god is in everything.

exactly! however, the creator is not defined by this statement. ergo, evolution could easily be the creator.

so there is a creator. what causes evolution?

you assume to know the most intimate thoughts of god when it suits your argument, but if I were to ask you why bad thing happen, you would likely say that "god works in mysterious ways"

bad for who, from who's viewpoint? the personal viewpoint. in god's world, good and bad are the same thing.

(no offense)

riiight.

God is there... so there must be a creator of God??? What the? Well then.. that god is there, so there must be a creator... and that god is there, therefore ANOTHER creator... into infinite plus 2 ...

everything needs a creator, but nothing doesn't, thus, it causes everything.

To find the creator... we must find out where he lives.... !?!??!

god lives in the present moment which has no duration, so there is no space and time, no universe there.

just like you (consciousness) are nowhere to be found, yet you are somewhere (everywhere)

 

[scorpius]

Building is there. Implies Builder should be there. Creation is there. Creator should be there.

not necesarily,what if the the Universe always existed?

it is my understanding that matter/energy of which everything is made of cannot be destroyed only changed so it obviously wasnt created either,it always existed,the universe is eternal,infinite.

If we cannot please the Lord, the human life is incomplete.

KRAP!
IF there was some almighty deity that can do anything why the fuck would it care about an insignificant specks of lifeforms who on a cosmic scale are like a tiny grains of sand on the beach.yes you

Jesus preached the gospel and His followers participated in His mission as servants for further propagation of divine knowledge. These great devotees never hesitated to serve Lord Jesus and their names have also been known even today.

Jebus was LOONY delusional morron with a Mesiah complex.
have you ever thought
why the hell would God need to sacrifice Himself to Himself to save you from his wrath??

 

[Provita]

Jesusl, supposedly, died so that we may be saved from our sins... and so we may be exposed (all this is supposed, keep in mind) to the path God wants us to follow. And technically, he didnt sacrifice himself... and technically, he didnt sacrifice himself to God / himself either... thats human sacrifice... not Crucifiction...

Not to mention Jesus' death was his triumph over evil (Satan) and his way to open the gates of heaven to all the noble... including the noble who had already died... so... yeah

Beliebe it or not, its shit, its not...all this is opinion, so I dont give a shit what u really say. Im not gunna try to convert you and say ur ways are shit, because i have no backing except mere opinion.

Anyways, Energy could have been created by God, but yes, the Universe could have always been here... sadly the whole BB theory has a few tweaks that need to be fixed not to mention it doesnt add up mathmatically and we have no proof of what existed before the supposed BB cause ... well... it destroyed everything... so we dont really know energy cannot be created, we just cant do it, but God can do anything (supposedly)... just giving you a taste of an argument that cannot be won by both sides due to stupid tactics like these... *sigh*

I hate arguing this, its as useless as... that annoying paperclip guy on Microsoft Word...

 

[c7ityi_]

What the crucifixion really means is that self-consciousness sacrificed itself to set us free from our material body. The cross is the symbol of the material world or the body, because if you put it together, it forms a cube, which represented matter in ancient times.

Jesus being born in a stable is allegorical. The stable represents the human body, because animals (desires) live in a stable.

 

[Provita]

Sure, you could interpret it that way... I dont, but you are left to your own interpretation, but atleast yours, unlike some others, makes sense and has an argument based to it.

 

[Michael]

how illogical, a universe without a cause

how illogical, a God without a cause......

 

[c7ityi_]

how illogical, a God without a cause......

nothingness doesn't need to be caused to exist.

 

[Michael]

nothingness doesn't need to be caused to exist.

Ergo God can be excluded from the equation. The Universe is eternal and Godless/Godsless/godessless/Godessesless

 

[c7ityi_]

no, i mean that nothingness is god, because god means creator, and 'everything' comes from nothing.

 

[Godless]

Godless/Godsless/godessless/Godessesless

My user name in so many ways, implies the nature of life.

I hate arguing this, its as useless as... that annoying paperclip guy on Microsoft Word...

Now and again one can catch a fraze like this, and chuckle, laugh a good one and make me spill my coffee. LOL..

no, i mean that nothingness is god, because god means creator, and 'everything' comes from nothing.

That is it, so why believe that "nothing" is some deity one needs to believe in order to be saved, yet from another nothing we call hell? If nothing is god, then god is non-existent. Non-existent is nothing.

Godless

 

[Rickie]

Jesusl, supposedly, died so that we may be saved from our sins... and so we may be exposed (all this is supposed, keep in mind) to the path God wants us to follow. And technically, he didnt sacrifice himself... and technically, he didnt sacrifice himself to God / himself either... thats human sacrifice... not Crucifiction...

Not to mention Jesus' death was his triumph over evil (Satan) and his way to open the gates of heaven to all the noble... including the noble who had already died... so... yeah

Beliebe it or not, its shit, its not...all this is opinion, so I dont give a shit what u really say. Im not gunna try to convert you and say ur ways are shit, because i have no backing except mere opinion.

Anyways, Energy could have been created by God, but yes, the Universe could have always been here... sadly the whole BB theory has a few tweaks that need to be fixed not to mention it doesnt add up mathmatically and we have no proof of what existed before the supposed BB cause ... well... it destroyed everything... so we dont really know energy cannot be created, we just cant do it, but God can do anything (supposedly)... just giving you a taste of an argument that cannot be won by both sides due to stupid tactics like these... *sigh*

I hate arguing this, its as useless as... that annoying paperclip guy on Microsoft Word...

Provita, i like u. I like how u make sure to say it's only ur opinion. but i do disagree with ur opinion. here is mine. u r right, he did die to save us from our sins, but not to expose us to the path god wants us to follow. that's what the bible is for, to show us the path god wants us to follow if we choose we want to follow it.
Ur right, god didn't sacrifice himself, his son (many people don't seem to get that they are not the same) was the sacrifice and the crucifiction was the way he was sacrificed. He was the last sacrifice. his death (the sacrifice) was for everyone so that they would no longer need to kill animals as a sacrifice to have their sins forgivin. All they need to do is ask for it.
His death wasn't so much a triumph over satan, it was a tiumph over death and sin. so that anyone can enter the gates of heaven and live forever if they choose to.
u mentioned mathmatics and the bb theory and how the universe could be eternal. i think u got that mixed up. it is mathmatically impossible (according to mathmaticians) for the universe to be eternal. the bb theory is the most widely accepted theory but science don't want to believe it because of it's theolgical implications. the only mathmatical problem that i know of with the bb theory is that 0+0=0. U can't get something out of nothing, and that's what the bb theory implies if u don't include a creator (god). science don't want to believe in a creator (god).
Science says evolution is fact, but they don't admit that there are gaps in it and that evolution actually overlaps itself by like 200,000 yrs in some stages.
Science is suppose to be the search for truth. that means taking ALL possiblities and considering them, but what they do is take God out before they even start and say ok how is this possible. If it truely is the search for truth shouln't they include the possibility of god?
that is some of my opinion. if i wrote it all, i'd be here all day. LOL. and i agree with u that the paperclip guy is annoying. LOL

 

[scorpius]

.. u r right, he did die to save us from our sins,

youre just repeating what the preachers tell you without actualy THINKING what youre saying.
WHY or rather How does His dying save anyone?
it doesnt make any sense.
and when you come to realize that this God is alegedly all knowing(he knew what will hapen in the future hes all knowing after all) and created all then He would be the One responsible for CREATING sin in the first place

Ur right, god didn't sacrifice himself, his son (many people don't seem to get that they are not the same)

perhaps you'd care to explain the difference between God ,Jesus and the Holy trinity to us then,as the bible tells it these are One and the same entity,
or have you even read the WHOLE bible?

u mentioned mathmatics and the bb theory and how the universe could be eternal. i think u got that mixed up. it is mathmatically impossible (according to mathmaticians) for the universe to be eternal.

BB had to come from SOMETHING so something must have existed before it

the bb theory is the most widely accepted theory but science don't want to believe it because of it's theolgical implications. the only mathmatical problem that i know of with the bb theory is that 0+0=0. U can't get something out of nothing, and that's what the bb theory implies if u don't include a creator (god).
science don't want to believe in a creator (god).

the universe is our CREATOR ,gods are just invention of a primitive mens minds and totaly unecesary.
if you disagree ...do tell who created God?
why would universe need a god creator and god doesnt,and we can see the universe but gods are just in peoples imaginations

Science says evolution is fact, but they don't admit that there are gaps in it and that evolution actually overlaps itself by like 200,000 yrs in some stages.

evolution is a fact how it happens is a theory,try www.talkorigins.org
or evo/creo forum at www.infidels.org they have some very knowledgable scientists that can explain most anything about evolution

Science is suppose to be the search for truth. that means taking ALL possiblities and considering them, but what they do is take God out before they even start and say ok how is this possible. If it truely is the search for truth shouln't they include the possibility of god?

god talk is a philosofical debate and has nothing to do with science

 

[c7ityi_]

That is it, so why believe that "nothing" is some deity one needs to believe in order to be saved, yet from another nothing we call hell?

Like Buddha says, the self is non-existent. We have to believe in ourself.

If nothing is god, then god is non-existent. Non-existent is nothing.

I think nothingness is the only real 'existence'. Everything else is illusory. Nothing but nothing has every been explained. Nothingness is self explanatory, everyone understands it, but no one understands something, because it's also just nothing.

The universe has no reason to exist, unless it's an illusion, nothingness in disguise.

 

[daktaklakpak]

Who created the face on Mars?

I hope you guessed right. It's not god. It's not martians. It's man.

 

[Michael]

no, i mean that nothingness is god, because god means creator, and 'everything' comes from nothing.

Perhaps the universe is eternal. Perhaps the universe is one of countless others that wink in and out of existence every second of every day for eternity. Perhaps this universe has began a million times before and ended 999 thousands times before.

Nevertheless, you seem to prefer a “beginning” with consciousness attached to it.

I say if we take away the consciousness that you have anthropomorphically attributed to the initiation of this universe, then perhaps we agree after all. There is no reason to attribute consciousness to a purely physical phenomenon – such as the beginning of this universe. There is no more reason to suggest there is one consciousness over say three or 800 million. There is no reason to suggest that even if there were 800 million consciousnesses that caused this universe, that you will get to live after you die. After all, that is the crux of it. The fear of your own consciousness ending. Which will happen. So, if you need to think there is a God or Gods or Goddess or Goddesses to sleep at night. By all means continue the charade.

However, it's rash to suggest God is nothingness and then assume that everything came from nothing ergo there is a God and if I supplicate said God then I get to live on after my death. The numerous errors in logic should be glaringly obvious now?

Cheers,
Michael