Logical Analysis Of The Existence Of God!

[Yorda]

Further, the bible is in error anyway by saying Moses parted the Red Sea as it was NOT the Red Sea but the Sea of Reeds they allegedly crossed.

People only come up with that kind of theories because they can't find a logical explanation how he could have crossed the Red Sea. But there are perfectly logical reasons for it.

M*W: References required.

Why do people always want references? Do they make things more true or what? Can nothing be true without references? Sometimes there may not be many references.

 

[yank]

Medicine Woman you rock!

 

[Hapsburg]

The words "God" and "Logic" have no reason to be in the same paragraph.


MW, you kick ass.

 

[river-wind]

Why do people always want references? Do they make things more true or what? Can nothing be true without references? Sometimes there may not be many references.

They do not make things more true. But given that the purpose of language is to communicate ideas, any use of language to convince others of Christian stories would be helped by the presence of actual evidence.

Being True is independant of evidence or references.
Showing Truth requires much more of the players involved.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

yank: Medicine Woman you rock!
*************
M*W: Thanks, yank! Back atcha!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Hapsburg: MW, you kick ass.
*************
M*W: Have I died and gone to heaven or is this just my lucky day? Thanks, Haps.

 

[DarkEyedBeauty]

well philosophy doesn't imply being non-religious either!

Hmm, well, philosophy is the search for truths. Religion is claiming truths. A true philosopher, if interested in a religion, can never settle on that religion, only try to prove its truths, and not really become part of it. So, I beg to differ.

 

[scorpius]

Seriously. Here's a site you might enjoy: Philosophy of religion

from the above site;

Atheism is also, however, associated with a pessimistic view of human value.

thats CRAP imo,
if we know this life is all we have,then that would make it all the more important,precious and meaningfull

If we were not placed here on purpose, but are the accidental product of random processes, and if we came from the dust and will return to it, then in what sense are we important?

in a sense that we only live once..

 

[scorpius]

Here's some proof that God exists
~Jesus prophesied that he would die on the cross and then rise from the dead.

HOW does that prove Gods existence?

Jesus's tomb remains empty to this day and historical records say that there was a Jesus Christ who was a prophet.

WHERE is this tomb?...exact location please..and HOW do you know its Jesus's
and how does it prove God?

~There are many objects from the Bible that can be found today such as Noah's Ark(it's in a glacier on a mountain I think)

no it isnt,
(if there was all the TV news stations would be up there with cameras taking pictures)
anyhow do you have any idea how big a boat would have to be to hold ALL the animals that exist?
even a biggest supertanker built today couldnt hold them all.

 

[Lucidfox]

There were less species back then because there wasn't much time for evolution to kick in much, therefore, for example, there were no dogs, only wolves, there were no cats, only the wild carnivirous variety of feline, etc. I do agree that there was much evolution throughout the years, humans have taken advantage of evolution by cross breeding animals to get pets or work animals so it's entirely possible that there were so few species that there would be enough room for them all. As far as the location of the Ark, thousands of people have claimed to get a glimpse of the Ark in Mount Ararat. The only problem is that most of the time it's impossible to see the Ark because weater conditions have to be just right to be able to see it at all but many people have claimed to see the Ark and some even claimed to walk on the roof of the Ark or even go inside. I personally don't know if these claims are one bit true because these people had no witnesses(at least none I'm aware of)but I'm not going to rule the possibility out. Also remember, the Bible uses a lot of symbolism anyways so most of the stuff in the Bible could say one thing but mean something completely different.

 

[Jenyar]

thats CRAP imo,
if we know this life is all we have,then that would make it all the more important,precious and meaningfull

in a sense that we only live once..

I'm very glad if you consider life precious because it's scarce. So you appreciate the economical value of your life, but so what? That alone doesn't make it meaningful. All people have just one life, but not many come to your conclusion. Compared to itself, a life might appear to have absolute value, but it's downhill from there. When you start considering your own life in relation to the rest of the universe - its relative value within the grand scheme of things - you might look around and see life is not so scarce at all; there are millions of lifeforms on earth that are better suited to their environment than you, which makes them relatively more "worthy" than yours.

Or from another perspective: suicide bombers also live only once. Do they consider all life important, precious and meaningful? Sure, they have only one life, but the earth has lots, so their own life is the only "precious, meaningful" one relatively speaking. If you only have this life, it's just as easy to come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter what you do, because nothing has any meaning beyond death: "There's no good or evil, only death".

Or take a look at atheistic (no-god) religions, like Buddhism, who say you have a continuous cycle of lives. Do they consider life more or less precious than if it ended at death?

 

[yank]

Hmm, well, philosophy is the search for truths. Religion is claiming truths. A true philosopher, if interested in a religion, can never settle on that religion, only try to prove its truths, and not really become part of it. So, I beg to differ.

but the point is not all the philosophers in history were atheists!
so there i can contradict!

 

[yank]

Atheism is also, however, associated with a pessimistic view of human value.

If we were not placed here on purpose, but are the accidental product of random processes, and if we came from the dust and will return to it, then in what sense are we important?

this is really bullshit now...
they donn really understand the meaning of atheism!

 

[psycho-sth-african]

Hi

I havent read all of the stuff on this thread but i read some wacky stuff.

Firstly can we prove that God exists, no we cant, can we prove that God does not exist no we cant. So right from the start we have a huge problem, we are trying to prove or disprove something that cannot be proved or disporved.
There are however som arguments that point to the existance of a greater cause.
Now to the first post, the one that I quickly scanned through. Yes all you attributes are right and i wont deny any of them, but they are in no way contradictory. God can know everything and still be All-Powerfull. The problem with your example is that God is outside of time, and therefore everything for him is now (see Dr. W. Gitt book Time and Eternity, I will try and get a hold of it if i can and write some of his arguments) For most of the other stuff you wrote read books by R.C Sproul esspecially Essentials of Christianity where he answers most, if not all of your paradoxes, another useful book that is on this topic is Not a Chance also by R.C Sproul.
(Time and eternity mght be on the internet somewhere and I have a copy of Essentials of Christainity from the web)
Anyway i'll write a more detailed response when I get the time
Bye
Jako

 

[yank]

Hi

I havent read all of the stuff on this thread but i read some wacky stuff.

Firstly can we prove that God exists, no we cant, can we prove that God does not exist no we cant. So right from the start we have a huge problem, we are trying to prove or disprove something that cannot be proved or disporved.

logically it has been proved that god's existence is impossible!

The problem with your example is that God is outside of time, and therefore everything for him is now

if you believe in a reality outside of time...
then the existence of the tooth fairy, santa claus & every other mythical creature is possible! we are dealing with hardcore reality over here!

 

[Athelwulf]

Lucidfox,

Jesus prophesied that he would die on the cross and then rise from the dead. Not only did he do that but he got the amount of days right as well.

First of all, he didn't "prophesy" his crucifiction. I really think anyone could see it coming. Second of all, his alleged rising from the dead is just a story.

Jesus's tomb remains empty to this day and historical records say that there was a Jesus Christ who was a prophet.

The emptiness of the tomb isn't so remarkable that it implies he was as important as some claim. And the mere claim, or even fact, that Jesus existed means nothing.

There are many objects from the Bible that can be found today such as Noah's Ark(it's in a glacier on a mountain I think) and the wheels of the chariots of Pharoah's army that drowned in the Red Sea.

If any of that proves anything, it's that events related to those explained in the Bible actually did happen. It indicates nothing about a higher power.

Some of the stuff in the book of Revelations is happening today such as
1-more wars
2-worldwide disease and hunger
3-children rebelling against parents
4-the leaders of some of the religions today could probably be the false prophet(there are many dangerous cults today such as Eckankar, Mormanism, jehovah's Witnesses, etc)
5-much more earthquakes
6-strange weather patterns(like snow in June, prolonged summer, etc)

1. There aren't more wars. The weapons at our disposal are much more dangerous. Plus, we know of quite a few wars in modern times but few from the past because these modern wars were so recent, and they have an immediate impact on our lives.
2. Disease and hunger have been around forever. Trust me, it's not as bad as the Bubonic Plague.
3. Children naturally rebel against their parents.
4. I can tell from your wording that you brought this one up to beef up your argument. You assume that the leaders of your cult can't possibly be false prophets.
5. The Earth is not getting any more geologically active. If the activity is changing at all, it is very very slowly dying down. It only appears that there are more earthquakes because we have the technology to report and document most of them.
6. Weather is not static. Never was. Never will be. You can pretty much rely on the weather to be strange.

You also need to realize that ever since Revelations was written, people have thought they were experiencing the prophecies. Are you aware of how many times Judgement Day was pinned to a particular date on the calendar, and how many times that date came and went uneventfully?

countless angel sightings and visions of Jesus(they can't ALL be liars)

To lie is to intentionally present a false statement as a true one. Since most of these people believe their statement to be true themselves, then you're right that they can't be lying. But that doesn't mean what they're all saying is true. Seeing an angel or Jesus is no different from seeing a unicorn. It's all either the result of a vivid imagination, hallucinations, or a mental disorder.

Why is it believed that when someone sees a angel, it's divine, but when someone sees a leprechaun, they're mentally ill? That's sad and hypocritical.

 

[Athelwulf]

Yank, I have a bit of logic to contribute, which you can all discuss. This is a bit of logic my father, also an Atheist, shared with me a few years ago. My memory's rusty, and I have to think more about it for it to make total sense to me, but here it is:

A being that is all-powerful cannot be conscious. Once a being is conscious, among the first things it realizes are its own limitations.

 

[yank]

A being that is all-powerful cannot be conscious. Once a being is conscious, among the first things it realizes are its own limitations.

very well said!

 

[Jenyar]

A being that is all-powerful cannot be conscious. Once a being is conscious, among the first things it realizes are its own limitations.

Only when he sins - falls short of perfection. Remember how Adam and Eve suddenly realized they were naked? They didn't become conscious, they became conscious of their limitations.

 

[Jenyar]

this is really bullshit now...
they donn really understand the meaning of atheism!

Do you understand the "meaning" of atheism? Have you followed its logic to its conclusion? I don't know how your philosphical skills compare with Nietzsche, but he came to the conclusion that "All purely moral demands without their religious basis must needs end in nihilism." Sartre, the father of existentialism, came to a similar conclusion: "If God did not exist, everything would be permitted" (see The problem of morality on that website.)

"According to Nietzsche, the loss of belief in God will initiate a ‘monstrous logic of terror’ as we experience the collapse of all that was ‘built upon this faith, propped up by it, grown into it; for example, the whole of our European morality’. In notes made late in his career, Nietzsche calls this collapse of values ‘nihilism’, the ‘radical repudiation of value, meaning, and desirability’."​