Last Resort Letters: Nuclear Payback UK Style

[Repo Man]

It's not just national ideology, it's the murder of every man, woman, and child I care about. I'd have nothing left to live for but vengence.

Do you think there would be no innocents on the other side? Do you care so little for the human species that you would try to exterminate it? The war is over, it has been lost, but your rage and anger would justify killing possibly millions?

The bombings of the cities in Japan were justified by the fact that we wanted them to stop fighting - we didn't continue to attack once they surrendered, even if the desire for vengeance on our part probably made more than a few wish we would have.

No, my attack would be aimed at whoever had attacked us.

A weapon capable of destroying the sun would certainly fix their wagon.

 

[madanthonywayne]

Do you think there would be no innocents on the other side? Do you care so little for the human species that you would try to exterminate it?

Not exterminate the human race, exterminate the enemy in retribution for exterminating us.

The war is over, it has been lost

It's not over. There's still a player on the field, and we can still go for a tie.

, but your rage and anger would justify killing possibly millions?

Nuclear deterrence only works so long as the enemy is convinced that you will launch in retribution even if all is already lost, and I damned well would. The human species would survive, but the bastards who attacked us wouldn't if I had anything to say about it.

 

[joepistole]

In the situation you propose, it seems to me the first thing to do would be to form an alliance. And as a sub commander, a military leader, you need information upon which to base your decisions.

So my first instinct would be to gather intelligence. If I lashed out, would I be stricking the right people? I would seek out allies to see if intelligence could be gathered and seek the support of allies to cooperate in appropriate responses.

 

[madanthonywayne]

Here's a serious question. Does Israel have nuclear subs? If so, what do you think their orders are in the quite possible event of Israel's nuclear annihilation? Turning the other cheek didn't come into fashion until the New Testiment. So..........

 

[pjdude1219]

Here's a serious question. Does Israel have nuclear subs? If so, what do you think their orders are in the quite possible event of Israel's nuclear annihilation? Turning the other cheek didn't come into fashion until the New Testiment. So..........

fuck they'd probably send them flying with out being annhilated.

 

[PieAreSquared]

In the situation you propose,

my first instinct would be to gather intelligence.

sooooooooo un-Bush like

 

[Killjoy]

Here's a serious question. Does Israel have nuclear subs?

Yes:

Tel Aviv, Israel (UPI) Sep 30, 2009
Israel has taken delivery of two German-made submarines capable of launching missiles with nuclear warheads.
"We have received two Dolphin-class submarines built from Germany," Israel and Arab media reported quoting an anonymous Israeli military spokesman.

Called U212s, the submarines were upgraded in Germany by Israeli technicians and engineers in order to enable them to carry nuclear warheads.

Initially in 2006, when the sale was confirmed, the German government said the two vessels were not equipped to carry nuclear weapons.

The submarines were ordered in 2005, and delivery was originally scheduled for 2010.

With the latest delivery, Israel now holds five state-of-the-art U212s, designed for a crew of 35 and capable of launching cruise missiles that carry nuclear warheads to a distance of 2,810 miles.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Israel_get_two_German_submarines_999.html

If so, what do you think their orders are in the quite possible event of Israel's nuclear annihilation? Turning the other cheek didn't come into fashion until the New Testiment. So..........

I think Pat Travers summed it up nicely with the phrase -
BOOM BOOM ! OUT GO THE LIGHTS !!!

 

[joepistole]

sooooooooo un-Bush like

Indeed very unshrub of me isn't it.

 

[Nasor]

Here's a serious question. Does Israel have nuclear subs? If so, what do you think their orders are in the quite possible event of Israel's nuclear annihilation? Turning the other cheek didn't come into fashion until the New Testiment. So..........

They have diesel-electric attack subs that can launch nuclear-armed cruise missiles.

 

[Nasor]

Thanks for the link but .....the best you going to get is well maybe we will survive.

While we have had tests and some big ones.. we never have popped off say 5 or more in a short time period.. so hitting say London, Birmingham and Manchester etc. in a short time period may have effect we don't quite know what are yet

First off, 50 megatons have gone off at once, which would probably be more or less sufficient to destroy five cities is spread around properly. Second, while it's true that we can't know for sure what the effects would be, that's only true in the sense that we can't really know anything with absolute certainty until we try it. We have enough data to make predictions that we can be reasonably confident in. If you want to claim that the predictions are wrong, you need to present some evidence beyond simply "But we don't know for sure!"

 

[PieAreSquared]

If you want to claim that the predictions are wrong, you need to present some evidence beyond simply "But we don't know for sure!"

you provided the link that said that...

 

[PieAreSquared]

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/Effects/wenw_foreword.shtml

pg1 2nd paragraph

 

[kororoti]

I think they deal with this problem in the movie "Dr. Strangelove". Dr. Strangelove aptly points out that the whole purpose of having a strong retaliation is defeated if you don't tell the other side that you have it.

Whatever the instructions in those safes say, ..... doesn't the fact that the enemy doesn't know kind of defeat the purpose? How will it influence an enemy's decision about whether to attack in the first place, if they don't even know what the letters say? Are we hoping that not knowing will be scarier than knowing?

 

[Nasor]

I don't know about how it works in the UK, but US nuclear missiles can't be launched without a valid launch code that's transmitted to the submarine along with the launch order. The launch code both activates the warheads and tells the missile's guidance computer what target to attack, so the people on the sub couldn't just arbitrarily pick a target - the missiles will only fly to whatever target is designated by the launch code.

I wonder if it doesn't work that way in the UK? Or does the letter contain a long list of launch codes for every plausible target that the sub crew might need to attack?