Lack of faith

[duendy]

methinks the concept of "self confidence" and "faith" got misplaced. Srfing is a rational obswerved activity where the essentially elements are unambiguously available for scrutiny.

d__not. surfing is an all over bodymind activity. you have to FEEL your way into it. pre-literate, pre-'rational' people have great balance. THAT

Belief, or faith, in god is an ambiguous activity as the elements constitutiing faith are inconsistent from person to peson. Even arbitrarily limiting the "god" description to the bible is of no use.

d__i wasn't trying to assimilate the biblical; faith with the faith of 'letting go'. the former is a fiath in empty words, and subverted symbols, and tha ltter is -as i i am saying - a TRUST of organismic awareness. if you like what words have done as transmitted by patriarchy, they have cut off the head from the body. Many of us now are merely talkin heads

Alan Watts was not the quientessential hippy philosopher and surfing and god are not correspondingly equal, by any imaginative mind.

d___depends what you mean by 'god'. Define more what you mean by that term, then i can answer

No, Duendy, it isn't faith you need for stability it is the observable practice to try to surf until you learn it. Surfing is an exercse that includes the element of learning. Comparing the educaional requirements of surfing and god there is no rational comparison.

d__you haven't understood me. Such is words. i repoeat. define 'god'

Surfing can be learned and the learning exercise stuffed into the sub-conscious, just like drivinga car. God, if found through the act of "faith", like learning to surf, completes the process, god has been found, ergo search over. No need to look for god especially when tyou have her neatly packaged in a little book written, published and edited by many politicians and propagandists over the years. You say god is the force behind the bible? Well then god is a writing, publishing propagandist.

d__ddddefine 'god'

Why would anyone place the totality of his/her soul in a an instruction manual so pointedly biased as to define cryptology, esoteric secrets, ambiguity, contradiction, murder justification, slavery, sexism hatredand rote unfettered obediance and compliance? The bible requires intepretation as most folks do not read the bible, hence we are dealt an industry of preachers and priests and a ludicrous institutioanalized soul.

d__totally agree with you, which hints to me we may be talkin at cross purposes. ie., you haven't dug what i mean

Mental sloth is the answer to the last question.
Geistkiesel

sorry, i dont see that. 'menal sloth' seems to mean a slow mind? rather when you shcuk off the sloth of cultism, the mind has more energy. Obviously

 

[water]

Seems to me the wise man is both faithful and skeptical, depending on context.

Although I fully agree with this, it has this taste of "ah, everything is alright, in its context". I don't have any other words for it right now, and I'm not saying this to criticize you.

I think there must be some other way to say this, but without that cop-outish aftertaste. Always "depending on context" renders you a strategist, and we all are.
But when it comes to matters of wisdom -- it is some higher kind of thinking, not just strategy.

I mean, you could say for a junkie or a prostitute that they are both faithful and skeptical, depending on context -- on the other hand, you could say that a wise man is both faithful and skeptical, depending on context. Both statements are true, but we usually don't consider junkies or prostitues wise.

Regardless I would agree that all people have faith in something to some extent.

Yes, it is the direction or object of faith that is the crucial thing when it comes to faith.
If one lacks faith, one actually, in effect, lacks the object or direction of faith.


* * *

Do you have faith in faith?

Yes, I think it is inherent to having faith.

* * *

Faith=commitment to an ideal.

This is a good definition.
Even though it is an ideal (and as such, may be per definition unattainable in full), having a certain relationship with it -- that of commitment -- makes sense and worth of it.

Faith is not the same as belief.

Keeping a belief, without being ignore-ant is not within your power if you are presented with enough ideas that seem to conflict with the truthfulness or usefulness of the ideal.

Doubt in the truthfulness or usefulness of the ideal is not lack of faith.

Lack of faith is letting go of the commitment, or not making one.

True on all points.
Kudos to you.

 

[§outh§tar]

Do you have faith in faith?

Yes, I think it is inherent to having faith.

Do you have faith in having faith in faith? Don't you smell a certain geometric problem when that is the reason given for having faith?

I think faith is axiomatizing. All fields axiomatize something (read assume baselessly). The senses are axiomatic and we believe them - although there is no (non-circular) justification for doing so. I think we axiomatize because that is our nature - it is biological and all up there in the head. We axiomatize because that is what nature determined would be our way of perceiving the world around us. We just can't help it and we can't fight our proclivity (Merriam-Webster's word of the day). But I mustn't spill the beans just yet..