Killed in the name of God?

[debt]

George Carlin on the 5th commandment:

"Murder. But when you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Cashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who's doin the killin' and who's gettin' killed." - George Carlin Complaints and Greviences

I'm not really a religious man, but this seems more than probable. Why would Carlin exagerate a nugget of information like that? I wish there were more people like George Carlin to articulate the voice of the unheard.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...e=4&u=/ap/20040404/ap_on_re_us/children_slain

By LISA FALKENBERG, Associated Press Writer

TYLER, Texas - A woman who claimed God ordered her to bash in the
heads of her sons was acquitted of all charges by reason of insanity
Saturday after a jury determined she did not know right from wrong
during the killings. A jury found that Deanna Laney was legally insane
May 9 when she killed her two older sons, ages 6 and 8, in the front
yard and left the youngest, now 2, maimed in his crib.

 

[§outh§tar]

What is the point of discussion?

 

[debt]

What is the point of discussion?

Well, I figured it had to piss someone off enough to defend their own case, but apparently no one cares.

 

[Jenyar]

"All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Cashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill."

In other words, as long as you look at it selectively, you can see what you want. If you ignore the history and the real people involved, you can put anything you wish in a neat display case like this - but it will be artificial. Just like George Carlin's arguments.

 

[water]

Many things, if not everything, can be abused, including religious teachings.

 

[Jenyar]

Many things, if not everything, can be abused, including religious teachings.

genau!

9876543210

 

[Cyperium]

George Carlin on the 5th commandment:

"Murder. But when you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Cashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who's doin the killin' and who's gettin' killed." - George Carlin Complaints and Greviences

I'm not really a religious man, but this seems more than probable. Why would Carlin exagerate a nugget of information like that? I wish there were more people like George Carlin to articulate the voice of the unheard.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...e=4&u=/ap/20040404/ap_on_re_us/children_slain

By LISA FALKENBERG, Associated Press Writer

TYLER, Texas - A woman who claimed God ordered her to bash in the
heads of her sons was acquitted of all charges by reason of insanity
Saturday after a jury determined she did not know right from wrong
during the killings. A jury found that Deanna Laney was legally insane
May 9 when she killed her two older sons, ages 6 and 8, in the front
yard and left the youngest, now 2, maimed in his crib.

There are people that get a "kick" for blaming God for murders and so on.

You should understand that the most sinful about sin, is that it uses good tools to carry out evil works. You should also understand that there are sick persons out there that likes to put a bad label on God by blaming Him for their actions (like "I heard a voice from God that told me to kill him"), this makes the wrong deed more wrong and there's some kind of perversion to it.

Religion is not to blame, the individual person is.

There are also so called "false prophets" that say that they heard the voice of God, but God did not speak to them.

Murder isn't the general behaviour for a christian, and it's not the message received when living a christian life. If someone murders then he is to blame, not religion, religion can't give any cause to why he murdered only he who murdered can.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

George Carlin on the 5th commandment:

"Murder. But when you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Cashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who's doin the killin' and who's gettin' killed." - George Carlin Complaints and Greviences

I'm not really a religious man, but this seems more than probable. Why would Carlin exagerate a nugget of information like that? I wish there were more people like George Carlin to articulate the voice of the unheard.

First of all, lte's consider the numbers. Compare what you just said to the first and second world wars, Vietnam and in the middle ages the Kenghis Khan's fordes. I think they claimed more lifes.

The reason why Carlin would exagerate that would be because he gets payed for that. He gets payed to make people laugh. And you make people laugh by (ab)using taboos.

 

[debt]

In other words, as long as you look at it selectively, you can see what you want. If you ignore the history and the real people involved, you can put anything you wish in a neat display case like this - but it will be artificial. Just like George Carlin's arguments.

You don't honestly believe that he is saying these are the only times that people were killed in the name of God or a god? He points these out as times when religion, well, really proves his point. I believe being killed in the name of God is an on-going process whether we see it on T.V., or read about it in the paper.

First of all, lte's consider the numbers. Compare what you just said to the first and second world wars, Vietnam and in the middle ages the Kenghis Khan's fordes. I think they claimed more lifes.

The reason why Carlin would exagerate that would be because he gets payed for that. He gets payed to make people laugh. And you make people laugh by (ab)using taboos.

First off(the statement is so naive it makes me want to punch the wall)...he get's paid for making people laugh? Yeah, he does get paid, but he's not Carlin, Inc. He goes out and writes material and when he feels he has gathered a sufficient amount or whenever he feels like it, period, he asks his friends at HBO, because of his already long-standing credibility, he asks if he can have a special. His job is a standup comedian(one of the harder-to-make-it jobs out there), he is not obligated to work by contract with HBO; HBO does not go to him and command him to write exagerated statistics about God or religion just so the ratings go up. He's George Carlin, he can sit and pick his ass for an hour and people will be glued to the T.V.

What's worse, fighting another large group of people, equally armed and trained to fight, to death, or having the same group of people arbitrarily kill millions of men, women, children, because they don't believe?

Religion, in almost all aspects, is dehumanization. Not only that, but it brings people apart. But what about all the good things religion has done?

I do believe in Jesus Christ, well there are records of him being a troublemaker and his crucifixion. So, well, there's evidence. It's not really a belief. But I do believe what he preached was about love and compassion and is incomparable to that which is written in the bible.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

First off(the statement is so naive it makes me want to punch the wall)...he get's paid for making people laugh? Yeah, he does get paid, but he's not Carlin, Inc. He goes out and writes material and when he feels he has gathered a sufficient amount or whenever he feels like it, period, he asks his friends at HBO, because of his already long-standing credibility, he asks if he can have a special. His job is a standup comedian(one of the harder-to-make-it jobs out there), he is not obligated to work by contract with HBO; HBO does not go to him and command him to write exagerated statistics about God or religion just so the ratings go up. He's George Carlin, he can sit and pick his ass for an hour and people will be glued to the T.V.

First off, and to quote one of my favorite fictional charachters ; "Now who is being naive, debt". ANd I did not say he was payed to say that. I am saying that his job is to make people laugh. And he is good at it. He makes me laugh, alot. But in the end his job is to make people laugh, to do that he extrapolates reality, exaggerates it, he works on taboo's. That is just the way it is.

What's worse, fighting another large group of people, equally armed and trained to fight, to death, or having the same group of people arbitrarily kill millions of men, women, children, because they don't believe?

You are building your own dream world. The mongols killed of a million (maybe two) in baghdad alone, civillians two. Vietnam was not an equal fight. Even the second, and mybe the first, world war was fought in cities not on battlefields far away where only trained soldiers fought. Also remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Religion, in almost all aspects, is dehumanization. Not only that, but it brings people apart. But what about all the good things religion has done?

First I wanna know what humanity you are rapping about. And in my opinion religion brings people together more than does the hedonistic, individual mindset.

I do believe in Jesus Christ, well there are records of him being a troublemaker and his crucifixion. So, well, there's evidence. It's not really a belief. But I do believe what he preached was about love and compassion and is incomparable to that which is written in the bible.

Could you please explain this paragraph a little more. 'cause it is not tatolly clear for me.

 

[debt]

First off, and to quote one of my favorite fictional charachters ; "Now who is being naive, debt". ANd I did not say he was payed to say that. I am saying that his job is to make people laugh. And he is good at it. He makes me laugh, alot. But in the end his job is to make people laugh, to do that he extrapolates reality, exaggerates it, he works on taboo's. That is just the way it is.

Yawn...I can sit here all day defending George Carlin and trying to convince you that his statistics(maybe a mere observation) are real, so I'm not going to. "More people have died in the name of God than for any other reason." Oh, man, I'm in tears that's so funny, get that guy $100.

You are building your own dream world. The mongols killed of a million (maybe two) in baghdad alone, civillians two. Vietnam was not an equal fight. Even the second, and mybe the first, world war was fought in cities not on battlefields far away where only trained soldiers fought. Also remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Yes, lot's people have been killed in war. More have been killed in the name of God. Damn, alot of f*cking people have died for stupid reasons, aye?

First I wanna know what humanity you are rapping about. And in my opinion religion brings people together more than does the hedonistic, individual mindset.

The individual mindset is the epitomy of what Jesus Christ is. He is concerned for the individual, he is an individual. He stood up, and against all that protested what he preached, without ever wavering. Sure after a few thousand years things go astray, religion becomes more mechanized. Yes, religion can be a great thing. I bet that an equal number of people have who have been killed in the name of God, have also been saved in the same name. However, to consider religion just a good thing, just something that can do nothing less than save, protect, and help people, would be the ultimate idiocy and that person would be "as blind as a bat." Religion seems to be based more on a community of groups of people rather than on unity of all people. All people will never be devout or fanatical or extremist Christian, Jewish, Catholic, Islam, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., because nobody cares that much. The ones that do, fly planes into buildings full of people, or strap a bomb onto there chests. Soon there will be so many religions and so many gods, they will all just cancel themselves out, and there will be complete unity because everyone has their own religion. So in a way, I'm hypocritical when saying, "Hey, go start a religion."

Could you please explain this paragraph a little more. 'cause it is not tatolly clear for me.

I'm saying that the bible(of which I have NOT read) seems to give people guidelines and really stray from the a true meaning life which is love and compassion for it and all other people. It seems that Jesus wasn't telling people not to sin, but to just get along, no matter what.

 

[§outh§tar]

And this is coming from someone who admits to not having read the Bible?

 

[debt]

And this is coming from someone who admits to not having read the Bible?

I think I can have the basic concepts. But really, who has time these days?

I'm not going to lie. Have you read the bible?

 

[OliverJ]

And you make people laugh by (ab)using taboos.

This is why mankind kills one another, that word, "taboo" , why should anything in mankind be taboo? , Why can mankind not realize that we ALL are human, and no topic should be labeled taboo !!!!!!!

Theres your answer to the twisted being of mankinds inhumanity towards one another..... freaking "taboo"

WTF is so taboo that we cannot talk about it!!


ta·boo also ta·bu ( P ) Pronunciation Key (t-b, t-)
n. pl. ta·boos, also ta·bus
A ban or an inhibition resulting from social custom or emotional aversion.

A prohibition, especially in Polynesia and other South Pacific islands, excluding something from use, approach, or mention because of its sacred and inviolable nature.
An object, a word, or an act protected by such a prohibition.

adj.
Excluded or forbidden from use, approach, or mention: a taboo subject.

Unreal.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yawn...I can sit here all day defending George Carlin and trying to convince you that his statistics(maybe a mere observation) are real, so I'm not going to. "More people have died in the name of God than for any other reason." Oh, man, I'm in tears that's so funny, get that guy $100.

He doesn't strike me as one that does empirical research for his jokes. Again, don't take it so seriously.

The individual mindset is the epitomy of what Jesus Christ is. He is concerned for the individual, he is an individual. He stood up, and against all that protested what he preached, without ever wavering. Sure after a few thousand years things go astray, religion becomes more mechanized.

It serves to know that jesus did not come for all man kind but was sent to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel". He was quite sectarian in that. As for the individuallist part. We all are. We all embody the individual and are concerned for it (specially the one called, me, in most cases)

Yes, religion can be a great thing.

That is something we agree on.

However, to consider religion just a good thing, just something that can do nothing less than save, protect, and help people, would be the ultimate idiocy and that person would be "as blind as a bat."

First of all, I have not said religion didn't cause many deaths. The inquisitions and progroms, the crusades. But what I see is it that religion that is being made into the cause of all evil. A result of social engineering and bad experiences with overzealous believers, in my opinion. I already mentioned that plain and simple realpolitik (WW) and the search for conquests (genkhis) and greatness and atheist ideologies (communism) are responsible for many more deaths. Also even in those sircumstances were religion is involved, the question can be raised of whether religion was the cause of the violence. Just think of how the old roman generals used to manipulate their religion for the sake of war. Consider also how the popes in 16th century Italy try to accomplish a temporal dominion.

It is very fallacious to pressume that religion was the greatest cause of most death, as was stated by carlin.

Religion seems to be based more on a community of groups of people rather than on unity of all people.

I don't totally agree with you here. At least Islam and I think most religions, monotheistic or not, seem to regard humanity as one unit. But I agree with you that after that judgement of unity everyone goes thinking he is the best. Of course one is.

All people will never be devout or fanatical or extremist Christian, Jewish, Catholic, Islam, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., because nobody cares that much. The ones that do, fly planes into buildings full of people, or strap a bomb onto there chests. Soon there will be so many religions and so many gods, they will all just cancel themselves out, and there will be complete unity because everyone has their own religion.

Let's start with the airplanes part. PRESSUMING, that the ones that committed that attack were indeed religious, this example only illustrates how things are not black and white. If they were indeed Muslims, they did not attack the WTC beacuse they were Muslims but because they had been given "ample" reason to stike back. Because they have grown in the midst of wars fought with western support and with western weapons and ultimate for a western agenda. Mind you I am not saying that killing an innocent is ever right. It is wrong. And I say that based on my religion, otherwise i would have seen it as a purely tactical move. Here too is a example of how religion tempers the destructive instincts of man.

Regarding the part about unity. I think that if religion and other such uniting things would make room for our "humanity". They would be no unity. It will be the whims and instincs that will guide us. And then there would be no unity at all. To solve that situation we will try and come up with idelogies. And then not everyone, if any at all, will accept it. That will bring us back to square zero with conflicting Idelogies and world views.

I think that a more healthy approach would be that of the Quran. Now read tit first and then judge.

Al-Hujurat (The Dwellings) 49:verse 13

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."

I'm saying that the bible(of which I have NOT read) seems to give people guidelines and really stray from the a true meaning life which is love and compassion for it and all other people. It seems that Jesus wasn't telling people not to sin, but to just get along, no matter what.

I don't regard the bible as the embodiement of truth nor her account of the life as sufficiently accurate.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yo! unreal man.

I will remain polite in the hope you reconsider the tone of your post.

This is why mankind kills one another, that word, "taboo" , why should anything in mankind be taboo? , Why can mankind not realize that we ALL are human, and no topic should be labeled taboo !!!!!!!

Theres your answer to the twisted being of mankinds inhumanity towards one another..... freaking "taboo"

WTF is so taboo that we cannot talk about it!!

First off, I don't think that taboo is the cause of the inhumanity of man towards man.

Second I never said that taboos should not be tackled. What I said is that Carlin uses the taboos already present to make people laugh. And he is good at it. If you read my posts again you will see that.

:m:

 

[SnakeLord]

atheist ideologies (communism)

Eh?

 

[debt]

I'm to exhausted and lazy to keep going, haha. I leave this argument while you have the upperhand.

OT:

Have you read the Quran, Wayne? I become more interested in it everytime someone speaks of it, it seems more scientific than it does religious. I mean I haven't read the Quran, either but I'm always looking for a good book to read, though. Thanks for the constructive replies and a dense argument; not to sound like a pretentious asshole.

 

[spidergoat]

I don't think Carlin was exaggerating at all, in fact, he gave very few examples of an obvious historical phenomenon. Perhaps we have to extend his reasoning to include other idealisms as well. Once some ideal, like capitalism, communism, empire, or even environmentalism is placed above the well-being of individuals, they can be used to justify all kinds of bad deeds. And its not even that killing is so wrong, its just the blatant hypocracy. People are violent, that's how we evolved.

The Texan woman was just crazy, if it wasn't religion, it would have been some other delusion that motivated her...

 

[SnakeLord]

The Texan woman was just crazy, if it wasn't religion, it would have been some other delusion that motivated her...

How do you know? Prove that god didn't tell her to do it.