Jupiter or Peter the Jew? Were they one and the same?

Roman:

It seemed a fairly common thing to do in classic times. If I rcall correctly, (false) etymology was also used to reinforce the agruments of Roman rhetoricians.

Venus was regularly considered to be the patroness of Rome, though. The reverse etymological considerations then have a grain of truth, if not the whole loaf.

M*W: The climate wasn't the comparison. The comparison was about the rivers that were crossed. Jesus crossed the Jordan and Julius crossed the Rubicon. However, from my second reference Carotta states the following:

"A year after crossing the Rubicon and besieging Corfinium, Caesar crossed the turbulent Ionian Sea in winter with just a few ships, and landed near the Ceraunic Cliffs where he dared the unbelievable: even though outnumbered, from the mountains he laid siege to all the troops of Pompeius, who controlled the coast.

A little different than the Jesus account, you will admit. In so much as Jesus' account was neither an act of war, nor one which dared the impossible in any other sense.

"In 6 AD Judea became part of a larger Roman province, called Iudaea, which was formed by combining Judea, Samaria, and Idumea. It did not include Galilee, Gaulanitis (the Golan), nor Peraea or the Decapolis."

I stand corrected! Galilee, however, was part of the Roman Empire at the time.

M*W: I think this is moot. They each crossed a river in inclement weather. However, when replying to your point, I realized that Jesus was said to have died in 33 AD and Julius died in 44 AD. Pretty weird!

So did George Washington. But George Washington was not Jesus. Nor was William the Conqueror, who sailed across the English channel.

Moreover, the Sea of Ionia naval battle you mentioned was where Caesar faced inclement weather. These were two different events.

You also made an error: Juilus Caesar died in 44 -BC-. Jesus lived during the reign of Augustus and Tiberius.

M*W: A play on words about Pantera -- doesn't that mean like "many lands?" Then there was the god Pan and doesn't "tera" or "terra" mean Earth. Could Pantera be a name for the "god of the earth?" I don't believe Jesus existed, so I don't believe he had a real or divine father.

Pantera does not mean "all Earth" unless we mix Greek (pan) and Latin (terra). It means "leopard". Hence the English "panther" and the scientific genus "pantera" as in Pantera tigris tigris.

For more information on temple prostitutes, again, not to be confused with common street walkers, the following references are available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_prostitution

What think you of that article as reflective of the research you have done on the matter?

Also, it should be noted that Judaism had its own form of temple prostitution. I'd have to find you the reference form the Old Testament, but there is a story of a father selling his daughter to the temple for that service.

M*W: The spelling of their names.

Aeneas and Yeshua (the original version of Jesus' name) are not very similar. Even in the Greek version of Jesus' name - Iesus - Aeneas is rather different.

M*W: No, I find it a favorable comparison. On the cross, Jesus said "woman behold thy son, John behold thy mother." I won't get into it here that John was a pseudonym for Mary Magdalen.

A pseudonym held by Christian authors at the time? Or later believers in such, ala "The Davinci Code"?

Were there not some 16 dying demigod saviors born of virgins on December 25?

I've read that in several sources, yes. Jesus, Mithra, and Horus are exceptionally alike out of all of them.

M*W: This is quoted from Carotta's book Jesus was Caesar.

I'll have to verify this and whether or not Marc Anthony's declarations were to be considered commonly held by the people, outside of hyperbolic demi-hero worship.

But nonetheless, it is interesting stuff.

M*W: I don't put much faith into the intelligence of John Q. rePublic, even in Italy. When I was in Rome, I did what everybody else was doing (having Espresso).

Quite true, quite true.

M*W: I like to give pet names to people, like my new grandson who is 22 days old. I call him "Little Precious." That's because I called his two year-old brother "Precious." Now I call them "Big Precious" and "Little Precious." As soon as the older one is old enough to understand, I'll start calling them "BP" and "LP." But that's just me. I'm their "Nannie."

Ha! I like that!
 
*************
I believe one was patterned after the other.

I believe Julius Caesar was the prototype for the fictional character of Jesus Christ. The names were changed to create new literature.

But that is not what you said earlier, you are changing the story. You said;

*************
The gospels are really accounts of the war with the Jews. .

And;

*************
Flavius Josephus was commissioned to write about the Wars of the Jews. However, the wars of the Jews became the gospels of Jesus H. Christ. In other words, there is no true gospel. .
.


Now I have already shown how the timeline doesn’t allow for Flavius Josephus and the Roman / Jew war to be the originator of Jesus, or the prtotype for him.


But even if you want to say;

I believe Julius Caesar was the prototype for the fictional character of Jesus Christ. The names were changed to create new literature.

A mere 60 years between one and the other is not a long enough gap for this to occur. Julius Caesar would have been a well known name in Judea at the time of Jesus; there were many Romans and greeks there - it was a major trade route. (If you were to suggest that this metamorphosis happened after 400 years, you might have more of a case, but not 50.)


I must also point out a condradiction I have just noticed aswell, in your opening post you say;
*************
the wars of the Jews became the gospels of Jesus H. Christ. .
And then in the next paragraph

*************
The gospels are nothing but the story of the wars of Julilus Caesar.


But Julius Caesar did not fight the Roman / Jewish war, so which is it? You cant have both.
 
But does historical proof exist( outside the bible of course) that Jesus did exist ?

*************
M*W: No proof of the historical Jesus has been found
intra- or extra-biblically.


There is historical evidence. When you are talking about 2000 years ago all you have is evidence for any historical character or event, whether that is Jesus of Julius Caesar. There only difference is how much evidence is available. Historically relative proof is established on the quantity of evidence available, this is never really concrete proof, but all we have. In more recent history we have far more evidence so can be more sure of things, but even in the history of 100 years ago , new evidence comes to light and our view of events changes from time to time.

Real proof can only be had in the present, when we can see, touch and interrogate something , or someone. So in history there is rarely proof, but there is certainly strong evidence that Jesus was a real historical person, that most scholars accept..
 
the only problem that i continue to see with this idea, medicine woman......

you are basing your anagrams and letter combinations on the english language.
 
You know...
They say that when you pull a carrot from the ground it emits a high pitched sound akin to a cry.
The carrots are crying for their God.
.

I thought that was the mandrake and it was the evil spirits crying out from relief at being released?
 
I thought that was the mandrake and it was the evil spirits crying out from relief at being released?

As far as I'm aware mandrakes don't actually scream when pulled from the ground.
That is supersticion based on them looking like little people.
I could be wrong, though.

Carrots, on the other hand, supposedly make a high pitched sound when pulled from the ground.
 
*************
M*W: I am getting real frustrated with the sciforums program. After writing another lengthy reply, it disappeared! This has been happening a lot lately. Does anyone know the cause?

Prince_James;1225328]Roman:

You also made an error: Juilus Caesar died in 44 -BC-. Jesus lived during the reign of Augustus and Tiberius.

M*W: Now I stand corrected!

Pantera does not mean "all Earth" unless we mix Greek (pan) and Latin (terra). It means "leopard". Hence the English "panther" and the scientific genus "pantera" as in Pantera tigris tigris.

M*W: Okay, forgive me. I'm a verbophile, and I like to decipher ancient words and turn them into English. I am aware, however, of the "leopard" interpretation. The problem I have with it is that I don't believe Jesus was an historical person, so he couldn't have had an historical father. There may have been a Jesus out there that was the physical son of the Roman soldier (archer, I believe), whose gravesite has been found in Germany, but I don't believe it is the same Jesus of the NT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_prostitution

What think you of that article as reflective of the research you have done on the matter?

M*W: I don't have any idea where that came from. It's not the reference I was reading when I posted the link. Let me try again! From Wikipedia:

"Religious prostitution is the practice of having sexual intercourse (with a person other than one's spouse) for a religious purpose. A woman engaged in such practices is sometimes called a temple prostitute or hierodule, though modern connotations of the term prostitute cause interpretations of these phrases to be highly misleading."

Just let me say this: Ancient temple prostitutes also had more mundane duties in the temple like washing altar linens, baking hosts (as in the RCC today still! I forget what they're called now, but it's something like "Ladies of the Altar." (You catholics should know this.)

In ancient times, though, sexual intercourse was considered to be sacred and healing. It didn't have the social stigma it has today, especially in the USA. We're still so Puritanical compared to the rest of the world!

Aeneas and Yeshua (the original version of Jesus' name) are not very similar. Even in the Greek version of Jesus' name - Iesus - Aeneas is rather different.

M*W: It's not that big of a stretch (ae) is close to (i) in sound (eas) and (esus) is pretty darn close, too!

A pseudonym held by Christian authors at the time? Or later believers in such, ala "The Davinci Code"?

M*W: No, I'm talking pre-Da Vinci Code. The Dead Sea Scrolls make references to MM=John connection. Also, there are many other well-researched works by scholars that make the same assertion. My bookcase collapsed and my references are all in a pile just now. I can look this up for you later.

I'll have to verify this and whether or not Marc Anthony's declarations were to be considered commonly held by the people, outside of hyperbolic demi-hero worship.

M*W: Okay.

But nonetheless, it is interesting stuff.

M*W: Amen to that!
 
Medicine Woman.
What I oftne do it write my replies in Notepad or Word, then copy and paste it into the reply window.
That way you will never lose a reply.
 
As far as I'm aware mandrakes don't actually scream when pulled from the ground.
That is supersticion based on them looking like little people.
I could be wrong, though.

Carrots, on the other hand, supposedly make a high pitched sound when pulled from the ground.

I was kidding, I thought you were too!:eek:
 
Medicine Woman:

Okay, forgive me. I'm a verbophile, and I like to decipher ancient words and turn them into English.

I do, too. Etymology is fun as Hell.

I am aware, however, of the "leopard" interpretation. The problem I have with it is that I don't believe Jesus was an historical person, so he couldn't have had an historical father.

Well the Jewish account is almost certainly wrong in at least the sense that the legionaire raping Mary would probably be unknown. Also, Talmudic Judaism is hardly a legitimate source for Jesus studying, considering its rather prejudiced stance against him, whether or not he was historical.

There may have been a Jesus out there that was the physical son of the Roman soldier (archer, I believe), whose gravesite has been found in Germany, but I don't believe it is the same Jesus of the NT.

I haven't heard of this? Where did you hear about it?

In ancient times, though, sexual intercourse was considered to be sacred and healing. It didn't have the social stigma it has today, especially in the USA. We're still so Puritanical compared to the rest of the world!

Sacred and healing? In which religions and cultures? I can only think of Tantric sex off hand as being used for explicit religious purposes, and even then, Tantric practices are often used for simple witchcraft and sorcery.

M*W: It's not that big of a stretch (ae) is close to (i) in sound (eas) and (esus) is pretty darn close, too!

Ah-knee-as v. Ee-zus.

M*W: No, I'm talking pre-Da Vinci Code. The Dead Sea Scrolls make references to MM=John connection. Also, there are many other well-researched works by scholars that make the same assertion. My bookcase collapsed and my references are all in a pile just now. I can look this up for you later.

I'm sorry about your bookcase! I hope none of the books were damaged.

But yes, I'd especially love the St. John = Mary Magdalene reference from the Dead Sea Scrolls.
 
Prince_James;1226234]Medicine Woman:

Well the Jewish account is almost certainly wrong in at least the sense that the legionaire raping Mary would probably be unknown. Also, Talmudic Judaism is hardly a legitimate source for Jesus studying, considering its rather prejudiced stance against him, whether or not he was historical.

*************
M*W: The Talmud "recognizes" a Jesus of the day. What that tells me is the Talmud is wrong. There may have been many "Jesuses" of the day, but none of them were savior material.

I haven't heard of this? Where did you hear about it?

M*W: Are you talking about Pandera or his burial location? Read the following:

Jesus Outside the New Testament Jewish Sources

"Insisting that Jesus, though believed by the Christians to be the Son of God, had taught only a short while before his own time (a short while that is, in comparison with the span of human history I.26), Celsus presented the things he thought a Jew of Jesus' time might have said to him, putting them in the mouth of an imaginary Jewish interlocutor (I.28). This procedure suggest he was drawing on what he believed to be early Jewish tradition; the content of 'the Jew's' remarks proves the suggestion correct. He accused Jesus of having made up the story of his birth from a virgin, whereas actually he came from a Jewish village and from a poor country woman who lived by her spinning. She was thrown out as an adulteress by her husband, a carpenter. Wandering about in disgrace, she secretly gave birth to Jesus, whom she had conceived from a soldier named Panthera.

Ben Pandera

"The Talmud refers to Jesus several places, typically as 'Ben Pandera', where Pandera is sometimes taken to be the name of a Roman soldier who was Jesus' illegitimate father. It may also be a play on words, since the Greek word for virgin is 'parthenos'."
- McDowell, Evidence that Demands a Verdict

"The story of Mary's seduction by Pandera was in circulation around 150 C.E., when it was cited by Celasus [Origen (ca. AD 185-254), Contra Celsum]; and the Toldot Yeshu was quoted by Tertullian in 198 C.E. Almost certainly its author did not intend his work to be taken seriously, but was rather riduculing Matthew by writing a parody. Nothing else could explain his making Jesus huios pantherou (son of a panther), a transparent pun on huios parthenou (son of a virgin)."
- William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus [/B]

Biblical scholar Morton Smith disagrees that Pandera was based on a pun.

The word parthenos "depends on a Greek translation of Isaiah 7.14; it cannot be derived from the Hebrew with which the rabbis were more familiar. Jesus is never referred to as 'the son of the virgin' in the Christian material preserved from the first century of the Church (30-130), nor in the second-century apologists. To suppose the name Pantera appeared as a caricature of a title not yet in use is less plausible than to suppose it [was] handed down by polemic tradition."
- Morton Smith, Jesus the Magician: Charlatan or Son of God? (1978) p. 61

The name Pandera, Pantera or Panthera "is an unusual one, and was thought to be an invention until [a] first century tombstone came to light in Bingerbrück, Germany. The inscription reads: 'Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera of Sidon, aged 62, a soldier of 40 years' service, of the 1st cohort of archers, lies here'."
- Ian Wilson, Jesus, The Evidence


"...Panthera was a common name in the first two centuries of the Christian era, notably as a surname of Roman soldiers....There is no proof that Jesus was referred to by the title bo buios tes parthenous ['son of the virgin'] this early on. It is possible, though, that the accidental similarity of the Infancy Narratives' parthenos to 'Panthera' ...caused 'Panthera' to be picked as the name of the adulterer, once the theme of an adulterous soldier arose in the tradition."
- John P. Meier, A Marginal Jew - Rethinking the Historical Jesus, Vol. 1.

"Eusebius, about 300, tried to explain 'their' [the Jews] Panthera story as a misunderstanding of scripture, and Epiphanius, a century later, actually gave Panther a legitimate place in the Holy Family - he became the Savior's 'paternal' grandfather! Later Christian writers found other places for him in the same genealogy."
- Morton Smith, Jesus the Magician: Charlatan or Son of God? (1978) p. 80

Ben Stada, Born of an Adulteress? "Jesus said, 'Whoever knows the father and the mother will be called the child of a whore.'"
- Gospel of Thomas 105
Was he then the son of Stada? Surely he was the son of Pandira? Rabbi Hisda [a third-century Babylonian] said, 'The husband was Stada, the paramour was Pandira.' [But was not] the husband Pappos ben Judah? His mother was Stada. [But was not] his mother Miriam (Mary) the hairdresser? [Yes, but she was nicknamed Stada] - as we say in Pumbeditha, 's'tat da (i.e., this one has turned away] from her husband'."
- Rabbi Eliezer

"The Tosefta mentions a famous case of a woman named Miriam bat Bilgah marrying a Roman soldier. The idea that Yeishu had been born to a Jewish woman who had had an affair with a Roman soldier probably resulted in Yeishu's mother being confused with this Miriam. The name 'Miriam' is of course the original form of the name 'Mary.' It is in fact known from the Gemara that some of the people who confused Yeishu with ben Stada believed that Yeishu's mother was 'Miriam the women's hairdresser'."
- Hayyim ben Yehoshua, "Refuting Missionaries, Part 1: The Myth of the Historical Jesus"

The Talmudhas "accounts of Jesus ben Pandira, who was tricked into trial, then executed as a sorcerer and blasphemer during the days of Roman occupation of Jerusalem (Sanhedrin 67 a.and Shabbath 104 b.)..."
- Discussion about Hyam Maccoby's Revolution in Judea (NETCOM)

(Note that "hanged" here means "hanged on a cross " - crucified.)

Of Dubious Historical Value
The Toldot Yeshu or Genealogy of Jesus, "told of a virgin named Miriam, espoused to a man named Yohannan, who was virtually raped by a carpenter, one Yowself ben Pandera, who entered her bed after dark in the guise of her husband. Miriam's bastard child, Yeshu ha-notsriy (Jesus the Nazirite), became a pupil of the greatest rabbi of his day, but while in Egypt misused his learning and became a sorcerer. Current Jewish thinking on the taboo on pronouncing the name Yahweh was evidenced in Yeshu ha-notsriy's learning the ineffable name and pronouncing it to work his evil. Yeshu was hunted by the agent of all that is good, Yahuwdah (Judas), captured through Yahuwdah's efforts (Yahuwdah had also been taught the unspeakable name, and pronounced it against Yeshu), and hanged on a tree. - William Harwood, Mythologies Last Gods: Yahweh and Jesus

"Subsequent versions of the story cite that saying attributed to Jesus: 'From filth they came and to filth they shall return,' and a legal conclusion is drawn from it: the wages of a prostitute, if given to the Temple, may be used for building privies."
- Morton Smith, Jesus the Magician: Charlatan or Son of God? (1978) pp. 60-61
"He answered, Akiba, you have reminded me! Once I was walking along the upper market (Tosefta reads 'street') of Sepphoris and found one [of the disciples of Jesus of Nazareth] and Jacob of Kefar Sekanya (Tosefta reads 'Sakkanin') was his name. He said to me, It is written in your Law, 'Thou shalt not bring the hire of a harlot, etc.' What was to be done with it - a latrine for the High Priest? But I answered nothing. He said to me, so [Jesus of Nazareth] taught me (Tosefta reads, 'Yeshu ben Pantere'): 'For of the hire of a harlot hath she gathered them, and unto the hire of a harlot shall they return'; from the place of filth they come, and until the place of filth they shall go. And the saying pleased me, and because of this I was arrested for Minuth. And I transgressed against what is written in the Law; 'Keep thy way far from here' - that is Minuth; 'and come not nigh the door of her house' - that is the civil government".
- An early Baraita (in which R. Eliezer is the central figure)
(in the Babylonian Talmud's tractate 'Aboda Zara 16b-17a; cf. Tosefta Hullin 2.24)


"There can be no doubt that the words, 'one of the disciples of Jesus of Nazareth,' and 'thus Jesus of Nazareth taught me,' are, in the present passage both early in date and fundamental in their bearing on the story; and their primitive character cannot be disputed on the grounds of the slight variations in the parallel passages; their variants ('Yeshu ben Pantere' or 'Yeshu ben Pandera,' instead of 'Yeshu of Nazareth') are merely due to the fact that, from an early date, the name 'Pantere,' or 'Pandera,' become widely current among the Jews as the name of the reputed father of Jesus."
- Joseph Klausner, "Jesus of Nazareth"

Sacred and healing? In which religions and cultures? I can only think of Tantric sex off hand as being used for explicit religious purposes, and even then, Tantric practices are often used for simple witchcraft and sorcery.

M*W: Sexual healing was practiced in the ancient goddess religions. The patriarchs of Judaism used this to admit their inability to refrain from the wiles of the goddesses. Sex is a natural act. (Note: I did not say that heterosexuality is the only 'natural' act). Sex is a natural act. When undertaken by two consenting partners (Note: I did not say 'adults' only), it is natural and healthy. It fulfills an innermost need. It is a biological function and is biologically driven. It shouldn't have the stigma that society places on it today.

Back in the olden of days, sexual intercourse was sacred to propagate the race. It was a necessity more than anything. Fertility goddesses offered themselves for the purpose of populating the earth -- something that needed to be done. Than goddesses for that! We're here today because of their sacrifices in bearing progeny!

Sex is also healing. How many of you out there are lonely. You don't have to tell me. I knows. There's a lot of lonely people out there who crave a relationship with the same or opposite sex. That's natural! People need people. As Streisand says, "people who need people are the luckiest people in the world."

How many people go to bed each night crying for someone else to lie next to? I've been there and done that. Have you? Our most innate human fear is the fear of abandonment. Therefore, our most traumatic human need is that of a partner; someone to share our lives with; someone to hold; someone to hold us.

The patriarchy feared our wiles, because we had some sort of control over them. Men were helpless in our presence! We have been shunned as seductresses since Eden, and we have been burned at the stake for less. That's an abomination, when all we wanted to do was give love to one man!

I'm sorry about your bookcase! I hope none of the books were damaged.

M*W: Thanks, so much! We had a big flood here in Houston, Texas, with Hurricane Rita, and it rotted the bottom of my bookshelf. Many of my reference books were molded, and I had to throw them away. (I really grieved over this!). I managed to salvage some, however.

But yes, I'd especially love the St. John = Mary Magdalene reference from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

M*W: Have you read any Laurence Gardiner? He explains the MM=John connection. The "Last Supper" bears clues to the same enigma. Da Vinci was the great "decoder" of the history of the RCC. He painted symbolism or otherwise be killed.

As a former devout Roman Catholic, I stand firm that the RCC is the most evil entity on Earth. It lies about god, and it lies about Jesus. My belief in it lies about me.
 
What happens when your son is rebelling and standing up against you and exerting his independence?
You kick him out of the house.

Jesus was God's trouble-making, rebellious teenager son who was kicked out of heaven and sent to earth (he was 13 when he disappeared, right?).
Jesus decided, "Screw Dad. I'm going to build my own house (Hades - House... is it a coincidence they sound similar?) and have my own followers."
He starts to gather followers to join him in his own eternal house party in the afterlife.

You hit on a important issue here.

There are always twins..so close to being the same in every move of God.

God - Satan
Micheal - Lucifer
Jacob - Esau
Jesus - Judas

The Christ or anointing was on Michael who was God....in the fight with Lucifer.
Jesus is Jehovah.

He didn't send His son....He came Himself as His Son.
 
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Medicine Woman:

M*W: The Talmud "recognizes" a Jesus of the day. What that tells me is the Talmud is wrong. There may have been many "Jesuses" of the day, but none of them were savior material.

Well it recognizes, at the very least, that Christians claim Jesus. Then they go onto say he was possibly a messiah at first, but was instead a practicer of sorcery and is now burning in Sheol.

M*W: Are you talking about Pandera or his burial location? Read the following:

The burial location of the Roman soldier you were referencing. I thought it wasn't Pantera, but Archer?

The name Pandera, Pantera or Panthera "is an unusual one, and was thought to be an invention until [a] first century tombstone came to light in Bingerbrück, Germany. The inscription reads: 'Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera of Sidon, aged 62, a soldier of 40 years' service, of the 1st cohort of archers, lies here'."
- Ian Wilson, Jesus, The Evidence

VERY intriguing!

M*W: Sexual healing was practiced in the ancient goddess religions. The patriarchs of Judaism used this to admit their inability to refrain from the wiles of the goddesses. Sex is a natural act. (Note: I did not say that heterosexuality is the only 'natural' act). Sex is a natural act. When undertaken by two consenting partners (Note: I did not say 'adults' only), it is natural and healthy. It fulfills an innermost need. It is a biological function and is biologically driven. It shouldn't have the stigma that society places on it today.

Which ancient Goddess traditions? I can think of three sex rituals off hand:

1. The ecstastic orgies of Dionysis.

2. Possible Orphic orgies.

3. Tantra.

How many people go to bed each night crying for someone else to lie next to? I've been there and done that. Have you? Our most innate human fear is the fear of abandonment. Therefore, our most traumatic human need is that of a partner; someone to share our lives with; someone to hold; someone to hold us.

Love is a powerful force, but I think you over extend it to humanity as a whole. Speaking from the perspective of men, we also have other ideas of fullfillment. Honour, fame, bloodshed. These are perhaps the male's equivalent of the female principle of love over all.

I think it was Mussolini who said it best, "War is to man what maternity is to a woman."

But yes, love is a many splendid thing.

The patriarchy feared our wiles, because we had some sort of control over them. Men were helpless in our presence! We have been shunned as seductresses since Eden, and we have been burned at the stake for less. That's an abomination, when all we wanted to do was give love to one man!

I think only the Jews have ever been a mean enough people to subdue women to that level. Most of the Indo-European pagan religions, the Semitic pagan religions, the Oriental religions, and the religions of most of the peoples of the rest of the world, have always venetrated the role of women as well as men. The idea of the divine consort is found in everything but Judaism and its offshoots.

Izanagi and Izanami created the world through their love.
Zeus and Hera reigned as King and Queen of the Olympians.
Shiva and Shakti.
Sky Father and Earth Mother.

Et cetera, et cetera.

Judaism is indeed a mean religion, though. The utter disregard for the role of the goddess has certainly been a stain on Jewish religion ever since its vicious conception. Even the Christian concept of the Holy Ghost as a feminine presence is superior to this.

M*W: Have you read any Laurence Gardiner? He explains the MM=John connection. The "Last Supper" bears clues to the same enigma. Da Vinci was the great "decoder" of the history of the RCC. He painted symbolism or otherwise be killed.

What do you think of his employment of an image of Plato in the Last Supper, arguing with an image that is almost certainly Da Vinci's own?

And what book of Gardiner's has this argument? I'll procure it.

As a former devout Roman Catholic, I stand firm that the RCC is the most evil entity on Earth. It lies about god, and it lies about Jesus. My belief in it lies about me.

However true it must be, I do rather love Catholic architecture. The churches are stunningly beautiful.

Also, have you ever read Hildegagard of Bingen's works? Her mystic writings are the equivalent of a Christian Tao Teh Ching.
 
Prince_James;1227323]Medicine Woman:

Well it recognizes, at the very least, that Christians claim Jesus. Then they go onto say he was possibly a messiah at first, but was instead a practicer of sorcery and is now burning in Sheol.

M*W: Yes, it does do that!

The burial location of the Roman soldier you were referencing. I thought it wasn't Pantera, but Archer?

M*W: Yes, the reference was about the famed archer. I have a more specific reference in my library, but as I told you, my references are in a pile right now. You can find the reference on the internet for now.

Which ancient Goddess traditions? I can think of three sex rituals off hand:

1. The ecstastic orgies of Dionysis.

2. Possible Orphic orgies.

3. Tantra.

Love is a powerful force, but I think you over extend it to humanity as a whole. Speaking from the perspective of men, we also have other ideas of fullfillment. Honour, fame, bloodshed. These are perhaps the male's equivalent of the female principle of love over all.

I think it was Mussolini who said it best, "War is to man what maternity is to a woman."

But yes, love is a many splendid thing.

I think only the Jews have ever been a mean enough people to subdue women to that level. Most of the Indo-European pagan religions, the Semitic pagan religions, the Oriental religions, and the religions of most of the peoples of the rest of the world, have always venetrated the role of women as well as men. The idea of the divine consort is found in everything but Judaism and its offshoots.

Izanagi and Izanami created the world through their love.
Zeus and Hera reigned as King and Queen of the Olympians.
Shiva and Shakti.
Sky Father and Earth Mother.

Et cetera, et cetera.

Judaism is indeed a mean religion, though. The utter disregard for the role of the goddess has certainly been a stain on Jewish religion ever since its vicious conception. Even the Christian concept of the Holy Ghost as a feminine presence is superior to this.

What do you think of his employment of an image of Plato in the Last Supper, arguing with an image that is almost certainly Da Vinci's own?

And what book of Gardiner's has this argument? I'll procure it.

However true it must be, I do rather love Catholic architecture. The churches are stunningly beautiful.

Also, have you ever read Hildegagard of Bingen's works? Her mystic writings are the equivalent of a Christian Tao Teh Ching.[/QUOTE]

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M*W: No, I haven't read Hildegard of Bingen's works. Perhaps, I should. Also, I havent read the Tao Te Cheng. However, I have met an individual who claims to have studied the Tao Te Cheng and he is an evil person. That is not to say that Tao Te Cheng is evil! He is evil, and his behavior proves it.
 
Medicine Woman:

M*W: Yes, the reference was about the famed archer. I have a more specific reference in my library, but as I told you, my references are in a pile right now. You can find the reference on the internet for now.

Take your time.

M*W: No, I haven't read Hildegard of Bingen's works. Perhaps, I should. Also, I havent read the Tao Te Cheng. However, I have met an individual who claims to have studied the Tao Te Cheng and he is an evil person. That is not to say that Tao Te Cheng is evil! He is evil, and his behavior proves it.

That's quite a shame that such a connection to an evil person should be found with it, as the Tao Teh Ching is really quite the interesting document. Very cryptic, but also rather profound.

But yes, I'd suggest reading both. I think you might especially like Bingen, as she is basically the greatest female figure in medieval Christianity.
 
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