Judaism become stagnate in promoting monotheism

This is a pretty good summary of the convenant with Moses, which is what people mean when they talk of the convenant of the jews with god. . . . Judiasm does not, and never has, proselytize. The Jews were chosen by god, not to be messengers, but to keep god's laws and worship god.
Those two responses are contradictory. First you agree with my analysis that the Covenant with Moses obliged God to lead the Jews out of Egypt, and obliged the Jews to spread God's word throughout the world. But then you say that they were not chosen by God to be messengers.

You're disagreeing with your own statement. Which one is correct?

Jewish people tell me that the Jews were indeed expected to be messengers, and when they failed to live up to that promise God got really angry at them, and he has never stopped punishing them for it.

I do not argue with your statement that Judaism has never been an evangelical religion and the Jews have never proselytized it. In fact AFAIK that makes it unique among the Abrahamic faiths: all of the others are evangelical. My point is that, according to Jewish mythology, they were supposed to establish an evangelical religion and they failed to do so.
 
obliged the Jews to spread God's word throughout the world.

I have never agreed with that statement. In fact, I specifically disagreed. I don't know what jews you know who hold to that position, but other than Jews for Jesus, I can't think of anyone who would. Certainly no one who's had any religious education in judaism would agree with you.
 
I have never agreed with that statement. In fact, I specifically disagreed. I don't know what jews you know who hold to that position, but other than Jews for Jesus, I can't think of anyone who would. Certainly no one who's had any religious education in judaism would agree with you.
Then what has he been punishing the Jews for, for the last two and a half millennia???
 
I have never agreed with that statement. In fact, I specifically disagreed. I don't know what jews you know who hold to that position, but other than Jews for Jesus, I can't think of anyone who would. Certainly no one who's had any religious education in judaism would agree with you.




Would you say Jews for Jesus are Jews

There are several sects of Jews who accept Jesus ( Jashua ) as the messiah, Believe they are pretty orthodox, the follow all the tradition. And so was Jesus a good orthodox Jew,
 
My understanding (as someone who was raised Methodist) is that Israel was chosen to serve as an example. In times when the nation kept God's laws, they prospered. When they fell by the wayside, things turned crappy.

Their success as a nation was supposed to be directly tied to their keeping of God's laws. This was supposed to serve as a witness for God. I can't think of anywhere where they are instructed to "convert" others.
 
If I'm reading it right (Genesis 17) Abraham gets to have a lot of descendants and land - and as a sign of this deal, all of his male descendants have to be circumcised... So basically, it's foreskins for the Middle East.
:roflmao:
 
Since I don't believe that god exists, I don't believe he's punished anyone for anything.
I understand. This is the Comparative Religion subforum and we're talking about the mythology. In Judaic mythology, what is the reason that God has been punishing them so consistently for so long?
My understanding (as someone who was raised Methodist) is that Israel was chosen to serve as an example. In times when the nation kept God's laws, they prospered. When they fell by the wayside, things turned crappy.
It's been about 2500 years since the Covenant, and for more than 2000 of those years, things have been relentlessly "crappy" for the Jews. Their land was occupied, their temple destroyed, their nation obliterated, their people scattered, their language limited to liturgy, their people restricted to shtetls, their shtetls burned, ultimately an organized attempt was made to exterminate them, and when that only succeeded in reducing their numbers by 50% they were relocated onto somebody else's homeland in the middle of the desert surrounded by hostile Muslims. Yet throughout all of this they maintained a large core of faithful who did not "fall by the wayside" but continued to maintain their faith, laws and traditions, and ultimately reestablished a Jewish theocratic state and even revived the language.

Very few other ethnic groups have succeeded so remarkably in retaining their identity and traditions amid aggressive hostility from the surrounding peoples; the Roma (Gypsies) are the only others I can think of. The Aramaeans survive only in a language; the number of American Indian tribes dwindles with every passing decade; the Cornish and the Manx are fighting a losing battle to retain their identity; does anyone remember the Prussians, the Ostrogoths, the Dacians or the Manchus?

All in all, by the standards of our species, the Jews have done amazingly well despite all of the hardships God has sent them. So I repeat: what exactly did they do wrong to earn these hardships?
So are you a Jew ? if yes , on what do you base your self to be a Jew ?
"Jewish" has several overlapping meanings. It can simply mean someone descended from the ancient Hebrews. (Hitler's one-fourth rule would have applied to me, but Jewish law excludes me because it was my father's father.) Or it can mean someone who claims to be and is accepted as a member of the Jewish community, regardless of DNA or religious practice. (In more Westernized communities this embraces children of mixed parentage and secular outlook if they just eat matzo ball soup and show up for Passover.) Or it can mean someone who adheres to the Jewish religion... which brings us to Alex.

Judaism is primarily a religion of laws rather than doctrine, so one who does not believe in God is still considered Jewish so long as he doesn't proselytize atheism and observes a few key rituals and restrictions. Obviously the Chassidim and other Orthodox Jews would not accept him as a member of the tribe, but in America's largely Reform and heavily secular congregation he would be unremarkably welcomed. I have many friends who eat pork, marry Gentiles, don't believe in supernatural beings and are not supportive of Israel, but they show up at the temple for a few major holidays and make sure their children get the training to pass their bar or bat mitzvah, and the Jewish community counts them as members.
 
Good question Fraggle.
It might best form the subject of a separate thread, but I look forward to the answer.

I could predict the Christian answers, which no doubt some will rush to proffer, but not the Jewish one.
 
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Judaism is primarily a religion of laws rather than doctrine, so one who does not believe in God is still considered Jewish so long as he doesn't proselytize atheism and observes a few key rituals and restrictions. Obviously the Chassidim and other Orthodox Jews would not accept him as a member of the tribe, but in America's largely Reform and heavily secular congregation he would be unremarkably welcomed. I have many friends who eat pork, marry Gentiles, don't believe in supernatural beings and are not supportive of Israel, but they show up at the temple for a few major holidays and make sure their children get the training to pass their bar or bat mitzvah, and the Jewish community counts them as members.


O heard the expression "
Judaism is primarily a religion of laws rather than doctrine, " I steel rules the life of the individual , same as religion does, Religion tells you how to behave and Jewish law tells how the behave
Is there any difference from Catholics or Protestants > I was a devoted protestant , then I went my way screwed any thing , now I am back a devoted Is there much difference among Jews , they become liberal , say Alex at some point before he dies he is going to be a devoted Jew.
 
Religion tells you how to behave and Jewish law tells how to behave.
Is there any difference from Catholics or Protestants?
I suppose among the most liberal congregations there isn't much difference. The most liberal Protestants don't believe that it's necessary to attend religious services, baptize or confirm their children; merely that they are obligated to be collegial to other members of their community and to be good to all humans. The most liberal Reform Jews have the same attitude: It's not necessary to attend services or observe most of the rituals like not eating pork, not using a razor because it might cut the skin, or not lighting a fire on the Sabbath; merely that they are obligated to be collegial to other members of their community and to be good to all humans. They do generally have their male children circumcised (but so do most American Christians) and they often send them to Jewish classes where they learn about their community and what exactly they must do in order to be good to others (but American Christians learn those things from our overwhelmingly Christian national culture and don't need special classes).

The difference, I think, is that ultimately the most liberal Christian still believes that the reason he must be good to all humans is that he will be judged by God and sent to Hell if he does not. Whereas the most liberal Jew believes that God will not judge him until many eons in the future when he comes down to reanimate the corpses, which is way beyond the attention horizon of most people, and instead he believes that the reason he must be good to all humans is that he will be judged by his family, friends and community, not just after he dies, but while he lives.

So the Christian may start treating people poorly if he loses his faith in God, or if he becomes so short-sighted that judgment by God is too far in the future to be important today. Whereas the Jew may start treating people poorly if he loses his respect for his family, friends and community and stops caring about how they judge him.
 
I understand. This is the Comparative Religion subforum and we're talking about the mythology. In Judaic mythology, what is the reason that God has been punishing them so consistently for so long?

To whom much is given much tested. I wish you guys would listen to me, I know a thing or two about the subject. I speak not from the writtings you guys call into question, but knowledge I have collected over time. It is your right not to listen to me, as I offer you no proof in this time, but when time has come to pass the proof will be in everysingle one of us, but then it will be to late for the tormented. The Jewish people have always gone up against the worst of earthly evils, and they have always prevailed.
 
No answers from Jewish people yet.
I knew some variety of Christian Zippy would jump in to answer a question specifically not aimed at them.


Zippy is a character in a children's programme who knows everything.
You can only shut him up by zipping his mouth shut.

zippy_300x350.jpg

Zippy: Ooh, I know the answer Fraggle, let me tell you. The Bible says...............
 
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I think being Jewish is less about mind and attitude as it is about genetics. It is all about blood line, descendants and lineage. Genetics sets a limit of who is preached to in terms of recruitment. It like saying you need the genetics of a cat to be included in the experiment. This limits the experiment to only cats and not dogs, elephants, etc.

Christianity is not about flesh or DNA, but about the spirit, soul, heart, mind, which all humans possess so they all can qualify and will be recruited. With Jewish you can not recruit all, unless there is genetic somewhere with at least one of the couple. I am not Jewish so I don't know all the rules.

But with Christianity, it not about flesh but the ethereal aspects of human apart from the flesh. This is all inclusive.
 
I think being Jewish is less about mind and attitude as it is about genetics. It is all about blood line, descendants and lineage. Genetics sets a limit of who is preached to in terms of recruitment. It like saying you need the genetics of a cat to be included in the experiment. This limits the experiment to only cats and not dogs, elephants, etc.

Christianity is not about flesh or DNA, but about the spirit, soul, heart, mind, which all humans possess so they all can qualify and will be recruited. With Jewish you can not recruit all, unless there is genetic somewhere with at least one of the couple. I am not Jewish so I don't know all the rules.

But with Christianity, it not about flesh but the ethereal aspects of human apart from the flesh. This is all inclusive.

There is a certain truth to this. Christians can be annoying as crap, by trying to 'save you' through accepting Jeeeezuz (even in this forum:mad:). Jews leave you alone about religion (thank you).
 
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