John the Baptist

[Buffalo Roam]

It appears that the cave were John the Baptist, preached and baptistsed his followers was located and if confermed what would this mean to all the atheist /, proably not a thing they would find some way to deny the proof.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3571502.stm

John the Baptist Cave: New Secrets Emerge

In 2004, archaeologists announced they had found a cave where they believe John the Baptist anointed many of his disciples, offering extraordinary proof of a central New Testament figure and his theology.

The cave includes a huge cistern with 28 steps that lead to an underground pool of water. Some 250,000 pottery shards were also found and are presumed to be remnants of small water jugs used in the Christian baptismal ritual performed by the fiery New Testament preacher. Wall carvings etched into the cave tell John's life story; they were likely made by monks in the fourth or fifth century. In addition, a stone was found in the cave that researchers believe was used for ceremonial foot washing.

Now new secrets and mysteries have emerged from this cave, known as the Suba Cave.

Led by University of North Carolina at Charlotte archaeologist James D. Tabor, the team believes the site dates to the time of the prophet Isaiah in the 7th century B.C. and may include a second, still unexcavated cave. In early 2006, the team uncovered an outside corridor leading to what appears to be another cave. The corridor was filled with deposits that date to the Iron Age--within 100 years of the site's original construction--and leads directly into the steep hillside. Tabor says it now looks as if this is some huge complex.

"We're following the corridor on back and taken it up to a wall of fill--it is leading to something--maybe another cave," Tabor said. "The corridor narrows as it approaches the cliff face and up above you can see bedrock, maybe a roof, but in front you can just see fill. It could just be a little enclave, but it just keeps going...it's going somewhere."

Tabor says that if the corridor is leading to a cave, the site was even more extensive during the time of Isaiah than it was during the time of John the Baptist and Jesus.

"The entrance, if that's what it is, is blocked with Iron Age fill, so this went out of use quickly after it was built, which is another mystery," Tabor noted. "Why do you build this huge thing and then it goes out of use within a hundred years? You have to wonder." In the recent excavations, the team also uncovered seven rough stone pillars in the middle of the corridor. "We have no idea what purpose these pillars served," said Tabor. "They could be quarry stones, but they left them standing in the corridor for some reason."

Tabor speculates that if John the Baptist did use this cave for baptisms, he may have chosen it because it has some kind of special significance to him and his followers.

 

[Adstar]

Proof that John the Baptist existed will not prove that Jesus is the Word of God. Proof that Jesus existed will not prove that Jesus was the Messiah. People who will not believe will grasp for any doubt to justify their disbelief. The Message of Jesus is the key to those who believe Him, Not archaeology.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Buffalo Roam]

True so true

 

[pavlosmarcos]

why do you think John the Baptist important.

The forty something provinces of the Roman Empire were ruled by a governor, One governor, Pliny the Younger, left a collection of letters showing us something of the provincial administration.

I have no doubt that Pontius Pilate was a real person. But proving the existence of the historical characters and settings to which the bible writers have linked their artificial Jesus of Nazareth says nothing about the latter’s existence. Every good ‘historical novelist’ provides an accurate and realistic setting for his or her story. Accuracy and realism prove nothing other than the novelist’s competence. Just because the bibles writers have incorporated features which can be shown to be correct does not make their story line in all its aspects true. It is surprising how many people fall victim to this fallacy.

it gives it authenticity, but it does'nt make it so.

 

[spidergoat]

I believe John the Baptist existed and was a significant influence on Jesus' philosophy, but those caves don't prove it. They only support the existence of the custom of ritual bathing.

 

[SkinWalker]

It appears that the cave were John the Baptist, preached and baptistsed his followers was located and if confermed what would this mean to all the atheist /, proably not a thing they would find some way to deny the proof.

In Teotihuacan, Mexico, there is a temple where hundreds of warriors were sacrified to the god Quetzalcoatl. Should this mean something to atheists to see that there is evidence for cult worship? Should I now become a follower of Quetzacoatl? Should you? You and I are both atheists when it comes to the gods of humanity, Buffalo... I just take it one god further.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

It appears that the cave were John the Baptist, preached and baptistsed his followers was located and if confermed what would this mean to all the atheist /, proably not a thing they would find some way to deny the proof.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3571502.stm

John the Baptist Cave: New Secrets Emerge

In 2004, archaeologists announced they had found a cave where they believe John the Baptist anointed many of his disciples, offering extraordinary proof of a central New Testament figure and his theology.

The cave includes a huge cistern with 28 steps that lead to an underground pool of water. Some 250,000 pottery shards were also found and are presumed to be remnants of small water jugs used in the Christian baptismal ritual performed by the fiery New Testament preacher. Wall carvings etched into the cave tell John's life story; they were likely made by monks in the fourth or fifth century. In addition, a stone was found in the cave that researchers believe was used for ceremonial foot washing.

Now new secrets and mysteries have emerged from this cave, known as the Suba Cave.

Led by University of North Carolina at Charlotte archaeologist James D. Tabor, the team believes the site dates to the time of the prophet Isaiah in the 7th century B.C. and may include a second, still unexcavated cave. In early 2006, the team uncovered an outside corridor leading to what appears to be another cave. The corridor was filled with deposits that date to the Iron Age--within 100 years of the site's original construction--and leads directly into the steep hillside. Tabor says it now looks as if this is some huge complex.

"We're following the corridor on back and taken it up to a wall of fill--it is leading to something--maybe another cave," Tabor said. "The corridor narrows as it approaches the cliff face and up above you can see bedrock, maybe a roof, but in front you can just see fill. It could just be a little enclave, but it just keeps going...it's going somewhere."

Tabor says that if the corridor is leading to a cave, the site was even more extensive during the time of Isaiah than it was during the time of John the Baptist and Jesus.

"The entrance, if that's what it is, is blocked with Iron Age fill, so this went out of use quickly after it was built, which is another mystery," Tabor noted. "Why do you build this huge thing and then it goes out of use within a hundred years? You have to wonder." In the recent excavations, the team also uncovered seven rough stone pillars in the middle of the corridor. "We have no idea what purpose these pillars served," said Tabor. "They could be quarry stones, but they left them standing in the corridor for some reason."

Tabor speculates that if John the Baptist did use this cave for baptisms, he may have chosen it because it has some kind of special significance to him and his followers.

*************
M*W: You have to remember that "baptism" was around long before the time of JtB. As spidergoat said, it was known as "ritual bathing," which was an important custom in Judaism.

The Jews, Greeks and Romans, used "baptism" for ritual cleansing, long before JtB was ever written about.

A cave or any other location resembling a biblical character isn't something extraordinary. After all, those places were around before the NT mentions JtB. Even though these places are ancient, it does not mean they are the least bit authentic. JtB is represented by the Sign of Aquarius, the Water-Bearer. The zodiac signs were created millenia before man created religions. The myths were used over and over again as long as mythological stories were needed. There was no real JtB, just as there was no real Jesus. The Sun represents Jesus, and his 12 disciples circle the Earth. Bible stories were created about the 12 Signs of the Zodiac.

All religion is man-made myth. When archeologists find these places of interest, that does not mean they represent actual people. They represent people of myth.

 

[Carcano]

The Message of Jesus is the key to those who believe Him, Not archaeology.

The message of Jesus (as outlined by the Sermon on the Mount) is of little or no interest to modern Christians - thats why they don't follow it.

Their interest in Jesus is primarily as a sacrificial scapegoat.

 

[Provita]

The message of Jesus (as outlined by the Sermon on the Mount) is of little or no interest to modern Christians - thats why they don't follow it.

Their interest in Jesus is primarily as a sacrificial scapegoat.

"little of no interest to most Christians" alright! fixed it

 

[Carcano]

I meant 'modern'...prior to the modern period there WAS an effort within some communities to live as Jesus preached, but they have all but disappeared.

 

[Adstar]

The message of Jesus (as outlined by the Sermon on the Mount) is of little or no interest to modern Christians - thats why they don't follow it.

Their interest in Jesus is primarily as a sacrificial scapegoat.

Maybe for false christians Carano, But not for true Christians. The Message of Jesus is important to us as well as the atoning sacrifice.

John 6
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life

He is both our Savoir and our Lord


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Carcano]

Maybe for false christians Carano, But not for true Christians. The Message of Jesus is important to us as well as the atoning sacrifice.

There is a reason why statues of Jesus seldom depict him speaking - Christians prefer the 'dead Jesus' hanging on a cross. Why...because he can't talk.

The principle of atonement was created precisely BECAUSE Christians don't WANT to follow Jesus.

 

[pavlosmarcos]

Maybe for false christians Carano, But not for true Christians. The Message of Jesus is important to us as well as the atoning sacrifice.

Adstar, to carcano, you classed yourself as a true christian,

I have a few questions, if you dont mind just to clarify that statement.

1, do you worship on Sunday.

2, do you believe in a Trinity doctrine.

3, do you have an Immortal Soul.

4, do you think Christmas is christ's birthday.

5, is Easter the time of christ crucifixion and rising

6, will you ascend to Heaven upon your death

7, are you positive that the Bible is the infallible source of god's word.

8, do you believes that Christ will soon return as King of Kings

9, do you give, without question

there is one more question, I cant think of at the moment so I'll get back to you on that.

 

[Adstar]

Adstar, to carcano, you classed yourself as a true christian,

I have a few questions, if you dont mind just to clarify that statement.

1, do you worship on Sunday.

I worship God everyday.

2, do you believe in a Trinity doctrine.

I believe in the scriptures in John chapter 1 identifying the nature of the Messiah Jesus.

3, do you have an Immortal Soul.

I am immortal i will never cease to exists. All people are immortal no one will cease to exist.

4, do you think Christmas is christ's birthday.

No. christmas is derived from religious harlotry between false christians and paganism. The 25th of December is a pagan celebration incorporated into catholicism.

5, is Easter the time of christ crucifixion and rising

No Easter is derived from religious harlotry between false christians and paganism. Easter is a pagan fertility celebration incorporated into catholicism.

6, will you ascend to Heaven upon your death

Not sure. I think it depends on how i die. If i am a martyr i believe i will. If i am still alive at the return of the Messiah Jesus then i will never go to heaven, If i die a normal death then i will await the Messiah Jesus return to rise.

7, are you positive that the Bible is the infallible source of god's word.

Yes

8, do you believes that Christ will soon return as King of Kings

I believe Jesus will return. Although i feel the time is near for His return i do not state that as a fact. I could be wrong in my feelings about the timing of His return. But i believe He will return in the same manner He left.

9, do you give, without question

No, But i know i should. I am a human being and have a lot of failings; i do not claim to be sinless or perfect.

there is one more question, I cant think of at the moment so I'll get back to you on that.

Cool, take your time.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[c7ityi_]

The Sun represents Jesus, and his 12 disciples circle the Earth.

So people thousands of years ago knew that earth revolved around the sun?

i do not claim to be sinless or perfect.

Yes you do.

 

[pavlosmarcos]

I worship God everyday.
I believe in the scriptures in John chapter 1 identifying the nature of the Messiah Jesus.
I am immortal i will never cease to exists. All people are immortal no one will cease to exist.
No. christmas is derived from religious harlotry between false christians and paganism. The 25th of December is a pagan celebration incorporated into catholicism.
No Easter is derived from religious harlotry between false christians and paganism. Easter is a pagan fertility celebration incorporated into catholicism.
Not sure. I think it depends on how i die. If i am a martyr i believe i will. If i am still alive at the return of the Messiah Jesus then i will never go to heaven, If i die a normal death then i will await the Messiah Jesus return to rise.
Yes.
I believe Jesus will return. Although i feel the time is near for His return i do not state that as a fact. I could be wrong in my feelings about the timing of His return. But i believe He will return in the same manner He left.
No, But i know i should. I am a human being and have a lot of failings; i do not claim to be sinless or perfect.
Cool, take your time.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar:it is a fallacy, to believe that any one could be a true christian.

that last question was
10, can you bring back the dead and drink poison witthout dying,

only, a true christian could.

KJV, Mark 16, 15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

a true christian also.

1, does not worship on Sunday.

Lev. 23:3 "There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD."

Sabbath is one of Christ's 10 commandments:
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy..."

Sabbath day changed by man:
"In the decision to celebrate the weekly festive day of rest on Sunday, (rather than Saturday) it may be that Pagan Roman usages played as large a part as in the fixing of the Christmas festival." (The Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 781, vol. 12.)

Deut. 4:2 "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."

Christ kept the Sabbath:
Luke 4:16 "He went to the synagogue as his custom was, on the Sabbath day."

As did the Apostle Paul:
Acts 18:4 "He argued in the synagogue every Sabbath and persuaded Jews and Greeks."

Do as Christ did:
1Pet. 2:21 "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps."

Sabbath to be kept forever:
Exodus 31:12 "For this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations.
Exodus 31:16 "...a perpetual covenant..."
Exodus 31:17 "...a sign forever..."

Even in the future after Christ's Second Coming:
Isaiah 66:23 "...from Sabbath to Sabbath all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the Lord."

Heb 4:19 "The promise of entering his rest [the Millenium] remains...so there remains a Sabbath rest (in Greek: 'Sabbatismos') for the people of God."

Sabbath made for all men:
Mark 2:27 "And he [Jesus] said to them, 'The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.'"

2, does not believe in a Trinity doctrine.

Bible describes two personages, not three:
John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

"In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together." (The New Catholic Encyclopedia Online.)

Holy Spirit is not a person; the original Greek indicates 'it' not 'he':
John 14:15 "I will request the Father and He will give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive because it neither beholds it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you."

When 'he' is used in scripture, it is referring to the Greek word, 'paraclete', a word which Jesus used to personify the Holy Spirit as: The Comforter; The Counselor; The Helper.

All of Paul's letters contain this greeting:
"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Could Paul have neglected to included the Holy Spirit if 'he' was one of the 'Holy Trinity'?

Holy Spirit is the power that emanates from God:
Romans 15:19 "...by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Holy Spirit..."


3. is certain that he does not have an Immortal Soul.

The Bible definition of 'soul':
Gen. 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." [Hebrew - Nephesh]

Nephesh: A breathing creature, i.e. animal. [or man] (The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, 1984)

The soul is subject to death:
Ezek. 18:4 "The soul that sins shall surely die."

Immortality is a gift from God - not something we possess:
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

John 3:15-16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."


4, is aware that Christmas is not Christ's birthday.

The Gospel accounts indicate that Jesus was born before the winter season:
Luke 2:8 "Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night." {Sheep were never in the field by night in Palestine after the third week of October.}

Inexplicable though it seems, the date of Christ's birth is not known. The gospels indicate neither the day, the month, nor the year. (The Catholic Encyclopedia, p.656, vol. 3, 1967.)

What history tells us:
Despite the beliefs about Christ that the birth stories expressed, the church did not observe a festival for the celebration of the event until the 4th century. The date was chosen to counter the pagan festivities connected with the winter solstice; since 274, under the emperor Aurelian, Rome had celebrated the feast of the "Invincible Sun" [or Saturnalia] on December 25. (Christmas, The 1995 Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia)

Though the substitution of Christmas for the pagan festival cannot be proved with certainty, it remains the most plausible explanation for the dating of Christmas. (The Catholic Encyclopedia, p.656, vol. 3, 1967.)

The decoration of the evergreen tree is of Pagan origin and predates Christ's birth:
Jer. 10:2-4 "Thus sayeth the Lord, learn not the way of the heathen ... for the customs of the people are vain: for one cuteth the tree out of the forest ... they deck it with silver and gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

Man's customs and traditions, even if heartfelt, are not recognized by God as true worship:
Mark 7:6-7, Matthew 15:9 "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the traditions of men...thus making the word of God of none effect."

5, and Easter is the ancient pagan fertility goddess.

God condemned his people for Easter worship:
Ezekiel 8:6-16 "Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations ... behold there sat women weeping for Tammuz [son of Ishtar] ... you will see greater abominations ... twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the East, worshipping the sun ..."

Jeremiah 44:17 "When we burned incense to the queen of heaven [Ishtar] ... we made cakes [hot cross buns] for her bearing her image ..."

"As at Christmas, so also at Easter, popular customs reflect many ancient pagan survivals - in this instance, connected with spring fertility rites, such as the symbols of the Easter egg and the Easter hare, or rabbit." (Easter: Britannica Online 1996.)

"According to the Venerable Bede, the name Easter is derived from the pagan spring festival of the Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre, and many folk customs associated with Easter (for example, Easter eggs) are of pagan origin." (Easter: The 1995 Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia.)

Easter was substituted for the true holy day of Passover that Jesus declared we should observe in memorial (once every year) of him:
Luke 22:19 "Do this in remembrance of me." John 13:15 "For I have given you an example, that you also should do as I have done to you."

1Corinthians 5:7 "For Christ, our passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therfore, celebrate the feast [of Unleavened Bread - the holy day following Passover] ... with the unleavened bread of sincerety and truth.

What does God think of man's traditions?
Mark 7:13 "... thus making void the word of God through your tradition ..."

6, knows he will not ascend to Heaven upon his death

John 13:36 "Where I go you cannot follow..."

John 14:2-3 "I go to prepare a place for you ...I will come again and will take you to myself that where I am you may be also."

Acts 2:29-34 "Patriarch David both died and was buried...David did not ascend into the heavens."

John 6:40 "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Dan. 12:2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

1 Cor. 15: 22-23 "Just as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will come to life again, but each one in proper order; Christ the firstfruits, and then at his coming, those who belong to him."

7, is positive that the Bible is the only authoritative source of God's divine word.

Heb 10:7 "Then said I, lo, I come (in the volume of the book...)"

Matthew 4:4, Dueteronomy 8:3 "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

Revelation 22:7 "Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."

8, Most of all, he believes with all his heart that Christ will soon return as King of Kings

Acts 3:21 "He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."

Revelation 22:12 Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense.."

Revelation 11:15-18 "Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever...thou hast taken thy great power and begun to reign...and the time for the dead to be judged, for rewarding thy servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear thy name, both small and great..."

Revelation 19:11-16 "Then I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True...the name by which he is called is The Word of God...on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords."

9, give's beyond reproach

"Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that
taketh away thy goods ask not again." Luke 6:30

"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would
borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matt. 5:42


"But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be Sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil." Luke. 6:35

so you see adstar your statement was erroneous to say the least, you cannot possibly be a true christian.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

So people thousands of years ago knew that earth revolved around the sun?

*************
M*W: No, I did not say that. Thousands of years ago, people only believed what they could see, and then created stories and legends about what they thought they saw. Specifically speaking of the night sky, since that's when the nomads traveled following the stars, they created stories based on the formation of the stars, constellations, planets, elements and such. And such astrological formations (as in "star movements") became man-made religions. The Sun became god. The Moon became ruler of the night or Lucifer. The Stars became angels and magi, etc. The Constellations became human beings associated with animals (zodiac). The names of the Constellations representing human beings changed from story to legend to myth. Again, they were not real people.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Buffalo Roam,

Is your argument that a cave exists, therefore 'God' exists?

 

[Trilairian]

It appears that the cave were John the Baptist, preached and baptistsed his followers was located and if confermed what would this mean to all the atheist /, proably not a thing they would find some way to deny the proof.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3571502.stm

John the Baptist Cave: New Secrets Emerge

In 2004, archaeologists announced they had found a cave where they believe John the Baptist anointed many of his disciples, offering extraordinary proof of a central New Testament figure and his theology.

The cave includes a huge cistern with 28 steps that lead to an underground pool of water. Some 250,000 pottery shards were also found and are presumed to be remnants of small water jugs used in the Christian baptismal ritual performed by the fiery New Testament preacher. Wall carvings etched into the cave tell John's life story; they were likely made by monks in the fourth or fifth century. In addition, a stone was found in the cave that researchers believe was used for ceremonial foot washing.

Now new secrets and mysteries have emerged from this cave, known as the Suba Cave.

Led by University of North Carolina at Charlotte archaeologist James D. Tabor, the team believes the site dates to the time of the prophet Isaiah in the 7th century B.C. and may include a second, still unexcavated cave. In early 2006, the team uncovered an outside corridor leading to what appears to be another cave. The corridor was filled with deposits that date to the Iron Age--within 100 years of the site's original construction--and leads directly into the steep hillside. Tabor says it now looks as if this is some huge complex.

"We're following the corridor on back and taken it up to a wall of fill--it is leading to something--maybe another cave," Tabor said. "The corridor narrows as it approaches the cliff face and up above you can see bedrock, maybe a roof, but in front you can just see fill. It could just be a little enclave, but it just keeps going...it's going somewhere."

Tabor says that if the corridor is leading to a cave, the site was even more extensive during the time of Isaiah than it was during the time of John the Baptist and Jesus.

"The entrance, if that's what it is, is blocked with Iron Age fill, so this went out of use quickly after it was built, which is another mystery," Tabor noted. "Why do you build this huge thing and then it goes out of use within a hundred years? You have to wonder." In the recent excavations, the team also uncovered seven rough stone pillars in the middle of the corridor. "We have no idea what purpose these pillars served," said Tabor. "They could be quarry stones, but they left them standing in the corridor for some reason."

Tabor speculates that if John the Baptist did use this cave for baptisms, he may have chosen it because it has some kind of special significance to him and his followers.

We already know that there were "baptists" actually essene that used such purification rituals, and according to Josephus there was a sect with such naturalist behaviors. The problem is there is nothing specificaly indicating "John" connected to that cave.

 

[Adstar]

Your last question

10, can you bring back the dead and drink poison witthout dying,

only, a true christian could.

True Christians have never had the power to do this. This is done by the Power of the Holy Spirit working through men. It's like saying that the power that gives light to a light bulb comes from the switch on the wall. The power comes from the massive power station not the little button on the wall.

These signs you talk of only happen when the Holy Spirit will's it to happen. And the prophesy was fulfilled when these signs where done by followers of the Messiah Jesus in the past and even today in some places in the world.

So your inference that i must do all these things to be a true Christian is false. Only if the Holy Spirit wills for these signs to happen will they occur. Secondly Paul made it clear that the different gifts of the Spirit fall on different followers of the Messiah Jesus:

1 Corinthians 12
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

So therefore no single person can do all the signs that you have highlighted, But the body of true Christians as a whole can perform the signs when the Spirit wills it to happen.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days